Does this Abortion Argument Work?

[Zach_Isaiah]

Hi all,

I wrote an article about the pro-life/pro-choice debate on my personal blog.

In my country, debate on this issue is somewhat muted, so my understanding of the issue is very much which I can understand of it from the internet. This is my first time writing about such an issue - my stand is that it basically it all boils down to viability and rights and that the pro-life position is logically defensible after we peel of the emotion and other equivocal language.

I wrote about it because I believe that the moral position is always also the logical position, morals and logic go hand in hand and are not exclusive (hence the essay was written without mention of religious arguments), and in order to properly represent the position of such a topic, the rhetoric must be logical and dispassionate.

I would very much appreciate if you would go through the article and advise me on whether what I have written. Is what I am saying logical, are there any fallacies etc

Regards
Zach Isaiah

 

[SophieG]

A couple of thoughts:

1. You said,

So emotional has this topics been that this war of words has led to the murder of abortionist.

A pro-life activist was also killed recently. Last I heard the motive was the fact that he was pro-life and stood outside a high school holding pictures of babies.

1. Many pro-choice people are perfectly okay with abortion even after viability.

Other than that, I think it is quite good.

 

[EmperorNapoleon]

I would very much appreciate if you would go through the article and advise me on whether what I have written. Is what I am saying logical, are there any fallacies etc

I think there is a problem here. You create a circular argument in your attempt to define personhood. I have to ask this question before we go any further; is a dead body a person?

 

[Zach_Isaiah]

Hi SophieG,

Thanks for letting me in on those points. I guess passions works in all ways, such that in fighting for certain rights, we infringe on other rights.

Your second point was quite a surprise to me, I assume it is not in the legal sense but in personal conviction right? Any idea why they are still alright with it?

Hi EmperorNapoleon,

Has it to do with the part where I write, “a person’s humanity is derived from his being a part of the human species and having the potential to develop the fullness of his human faculties, whatever that may be”?

By dead body, I’m not too sure if you mean vegetative dead or dead, I believe it is a person as he/she has the right minimally to life and proper healthcare in the former and has the dignity to a proper burial/ cremation in the latter.

I say that because the (just my view), the dead body in either state is a human body and has developed his human faculties until the point where he/she has become a dead body.

Zach Isaiah

 

[SophieG]

Your second point was quite a surprise to me, I assume it is not in the legal sense but in personal conviction right? Any idea why they are still alright with it?

Oh, the basic argument goes that no one has the right to live off your body without permission, no matter how old they are. This is the argument that usually describes the fetus as a parasite. I, of course, say that having sex was giving permission. Those who use contraception and have separated the unitive aspect from the procreative aspect have a hard time understanding this.

 

[beafedor]

Hi all,

I wrote an article about the pro-life/pro-choice debate on my personal blog.

In my country, debate on this issue is somewhat muted, so my understanding of the issue is very much which I can understand of it from the internet. This is my first time writing about such an issue - my stand is that it basically it all boils down to viability and rights and that the pro-life position is logically defensible after we peel of the emotion and other equivocal language.

I wrote about it because I believe that the moral position is always also the logical position, morals and logic go hand in hand and are not exclusive (hence the essay was written without mention of religious arguments), and in order to properly represent the position of such a topic, the rhetoric must be logical and dispassionate.

I would very much appreciate if you would go through the article and advise me on whether what I have written. Is what I am saying logical, are there any fallacies etc

Regards
Zach Isaiah

Zach, I’m glad you shared this. As you said, you are echoing things that you read on the internet so it doesn’t necessarily reflect reality. A couple of thoughts:

1/ one who supports abortion is called pro-abortion, whatever the reason to support it or if they support it only in some circumstances they are still pro-abortion. “pro-choice” is a political term which only purpose is to confuse people.

2/ a person who opposes abortion can be called either anti-abortion or pro-life but pro-life covers other aspects such the defense of the sick, handicapped and the elderly.

3/Abortion is a business, and a lucrative one. Planned Parenthood and other private abortion mills are making a lot of money by taking advantage of women in a situation of distress. This aspect shouldn’t be overlooked

4/ Abortion is not “the removal of a pregnancy” or “the removal of the foetus and the placenta”. An abortion is a violent act performed with sharp, barbaric tools or ingestion of a massive dose of chemicals. Not to mention the gruesome partial birth abortion procedure when a doctor delivers the baby’s body and holds the head inside the womb (so it doesn’t qualify for murder) and sucks out the brains. Sorry, but this had to be said.

5/ Often an abortion is not a free choice. this has to be said too. Women are coerced by boyfriends, hubands, teenagers by well meaning legal guardians, sexual assaults are not reported…

6/ An abortion doesn’t end when you leave the clinic. You have to live the rest of your live with the trauma, the guilt and the shame even it the abortion was not the woman’s decision.

To find out more on 5/ 6/, please log on to the Silent no More Awareness website, watch the video “I had an abortion because…” and read some testimonies
silentnomoreawareness.org/

I Thank you for taking a stand for life.

PS: the murder of George Tiller does not represent the Pro-life movement as the “Una bomber” does not represent the Environment movement.

 

[SophieG]

1/ one who supports abortion is called pro-abortion, whatever the reason to support it or if they support it only in some circumstances they are still pro-abortion. “pro-choice” is a political term which only purpose is to confuse people.

I really think getting hung up over names is not a good idea. Insisting on calling pro-choice people “pro-abortion” or “pro-death” is unnecessarily antagonizing, just as calling pro-life people “anti-choice” is. Besides, I really don’t think it’s correct in some cases. There are people who think abortion is terrible, evil, and should never happen, but don’t feel that they have the right to force other people to keep their children. I think they are misguided and wrong, but the fact still remains that these people are not pro-abortion. They are pro-choice.

Needlessly upsetting the other side is not going to help at all, and can only hurt.

 

[beafedor]

I really think getting hung up over names is not a good idea. Insisting on calling pro-choice people “pro-abortion” or “pro-death” is unnecessarily antagonizing, just as calling pro-life people “anti-choice” is. Besides, I really don’t think it’s correct in some cases. There are people who think abortion is terrible, evil, and should never happen, but don’t feel that they have the right to force other people to keep their children. I think they are misguided and wrong, but the fact still remains that these people are not pro-abortion. They are pro-choice.

Needlessly upsetting the other side is not going to help at all, and can only hurt.

Thanks Sophie for sharing your thoughts. Indeed people who call themselves “pro-choice” are misguided, usually seduced by some political ideas and support legal child killing by their words, deeds or apathy.

Both “pro-choice” or “anti-choice” expressions were created by abortion advocates to confuse people and to seduce those who were not sure where they stand.

Now, doesn’t the word choice mean making a decision between at least 2 options?
Actually, those who oppose abortion are those who give women options. They support couple parenthood, single motherhood or fatherhood, grand parents raising grand kids, adoption. The misguiding expression “pro-choice” is referring to only one option: to abort and that’s why I call them pro-aborts.

Somebody has to show them what they are supporting by their words, actions or lack of action because often they are in denial. Of course it has to be done with Charity but also in Truth. I didn’t check if you are Catholic or not but as for me, every time I talk to a “pro-choice” Catholic brother or sister, I’m praying for them and do my best to show them the truth. That’s one of the reasons I’ve joined this forum. Peace be with you.

 

[ryecroft]

Thanks Sophie for sharing your thoughts. Indeed people who call themselves “pro-choice” are misguided, usually seduced by some political ideas and support legal child killing by their words, deeds or apathy.

Both “pro-choice” or “anti-choice” expressions were created by abortion advocates to confuse people and to seduce those who were not sure where they stand.

Now, doesn’t the word choice mean making a decision between at least 2 options?

Yes, the prochoice do give two options - the word “choice” does imply making a decision between at least 2 options - there is the option to continue the pregnancy and the option to end the pregnancy. That is 2 choices. Not every person who is prochoice says that a pregnant woman “should” get an abotion - I know of plenty of prochoice people who have helped out pregnant women. You seem to be thinking that anyone who is prochoice only wants abortion. That’s completely false - Being prochoice is showing women they have the choice to continue with their pregnancy and have a baby or to terminate the pregnancy and not. That’s deffinately a decision between 2 options.
God Bless
Rye