Which one would be more apt to foster oneness and unity: a decentralized organization or a divine (in other words, Godly) - dictatorship? By the way, do you really see the Bishop of Rome as a dictator who is not restricted by anything?
The opposite of a dictatorship is a democracy, which we KNOW God’s kingdom is not, so why would His Church be?Nine_Two, you said to Nicea:
Which one would be more apt to foster oneness and unity: a decentralized organization or a divine (in other words, Godly) - dictatorship? By the way, do you really see the Bishop of Rome as a dictator who is not restricted by anything?
One doesn’t have to try to hard in this forum to find a post where the laity are trying to overrule their priests and bishop.
Franchises are not controlled fully by the corporate headquarters. Just as every Archdiocese isn’t controlled hands-on by the Pope. The Pope isn’t a micro-manager.:
Yes just like every Jack- in -Box is a separate franchise,yet still under coporate headquaters.
First of all the pope is a human being, not God. He is most certainly not always loving, kind and benevolent. Look the the example of Pope Pius IX having the Melkite patriarch held down while he placed his foot on his head.Agreed. And if you think about it, dictatorship has all these nasty overtones, of course Nine was strongly stating that…but in reality he doesn’t think things through. God’s kingdom is a dictatorship, a benevolent, loving, kind dictatorship. God dictates, we listen and obey. He is a King. The King of Kings. We are his vassals. If he chooses to have the pope as his vizier in this “dictatorship,” then I guess I’m ok being a part of it
Well no Catholic on this forum would contend that they should be compelled to follow their bishop into schism. I don’t know why they feel we should be compelled to follow ours. The Council of Florence is often help up as an example of how the Orthodox laity can “overrule” their hierarchs. Those bishops at Florence clearly departed from Orthodox tradition when they signed the documents and separated themselves from the Church. That is why they were repudiated upon their return. Any Catholic would do the same.
So I have never sought to create a dichotomy in which it’s either Pope or anarchy central. I am simply saying that Nine Two’s post sought to create a situation in which the papacy is a dictatorship, something you guys like to perpetuate too . I merely am pointing out that the “dictatorship” term is goofy and a more accurate one would be a monarchy with Christ our King and the Pope his vizier. It’s not a democracy. While the term “dictatorship” is melodromatic, in a way it’s true. We are governed by a Lord and His Chief apostle gives us our marching orders That’s the Catholic view. Bishops are expected to hold fast to the Magisterium and as a result you have order. Sometimes you get your rogues and they get dealt with. That way you don’t get a situation, as there are with some communions, where one bishop allows his flock to use birth control and other bishops in that same communion do not. That happens in some communions outside of Rome 
Well I didn’t know about the incident either until very recently when I read it here on the Eastern Catholicism forum. Honestly I probably wouldn’t have believed it had it not come from Catholic sources.Joe, I would hope you know me well enough by now to know that I am well aware of the Orthodox view of Eucharistic Ecclesiology. I have read a little Ware and Meyendorff myself
As for the pope’s foot on a bishop’s head, it pains a good man to admit it, but I haven’t a clue on that one what you’re talking about. I am always open to being enlightened though
I don’t know why you would think there needs to be complete uniformity on pastoral issues. Our bishops were given the power to bind and loose for a reason.That way you don’t get a situation, as there are with some communions, where one bishop allows his flock to use birth control and other bishops in that same communion do not. That happens in some communions outside of Rome
Good is good and evil is evil whether it’s in Canada, the US, Podunkville, CT or Timbuktu LOLI don’t know why you would think there needs to be complete uniformity on pastoral issues. Our bishops were given the power to bind and loose for a reason.
Yup, I agree. I’m just pointing out that many here already at least verbally oppose their Bishops and Priests even on matters that doesn’t involve heretical or schismatic issues.
Joe, character attacks have never seemed sustainable to me for the simple fact that God is the one in charge, as opposed to the flawed character, and plenty of flawed characters/leaders existed in both the EOC and the CC. God is the one Who has been using sinful leaders to do His will since God chose the Israelites to be His son, just as He did with Peter, another flawed man, and his successors, with the ultimate intention of building up HIS Church, of governing HIS family and thus bringing about the guarantee that HE imparted in Matthew 16.
No one is claiming that mob rule exists in the EOC.
I love the EOC, a church where the holy Eucharist can be sought everyday.Pastoral issues are rarely black and white. That is precisely why pastoral issues should be left to the pastors, not the canonist.Morality and uniformity make great bedfellows.
Pastoral issues are rarely black and white. That is precisely why pastoral issues should be left to the pastors, not the canonist.
Like I said I never heard of it till I read it from Catholic sources. I haven’t had any real reason to dispute it considering where the info is coming from.I have real trouble believing that story. I would have just as much trouble with that as I would if someone told me that the Patriarch of Constantinople had someone lay down and he put his foot on his head or neck. Just sounds too absurd and outlandish to believe. Someone is full of that boloney you mentioned the other day…
When couples should be allowed to space children, if there are other considerations on when/if to allow birth control, fasting regimens, prayer rules, issues/impediments regarding holy orders, issues regarding regular church attendance…and on and on.