Does this Conform with Calvinism?

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If so, could a Calvinist please explain what this means to you.

Thanks.

Rev. 22
12"Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done. 13I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.
 
CHESTERTONRULES said:
If so, could a Calvinist please explain what this means to you.

Thanks.

Rev. 22
12"Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done. 13I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.
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Hi Chestertonrules,

I could see Calvinists possibly attempting to use this. The best place to check might be “the Institutes” by Calvin to see if he uses it. As you are well aware, the problem is that scripture can be, and is, quoted out of context. A great example of this the split in the Baptist and Methodist churches over slavery, 10 years before the Civil War. Both sides used scripture to support/deny the use of slavery.

Hope that this helps.
 
CHESTERTONRULES said:
If so, could a Calvinist please explain what this means to you.

Thanks.

Rev. 22
12"Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done. 13I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.
Click to expand...
A good place to start is indeed Calvin’s Institutes, Book 3, chap. 18, which has the highly relevant title: “The Righteousness of Works Improperly Inferred from Rewards.” Here’s an excerpt (from section 3):
And yet the Lord does not act in vain, or delude us when he says, that he renders to works what he had freely given previous to works. As he would have us to be exercised in good works, while aspiring to the manifestation, or, if I may so speak, the fruition of the things which he has promised, and by means of them to hasten on to the blessed hope set before us in heaven, the fruit of the promises is justly ascribed to those things by which it is brought to maturity.
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Edwin
 
Contarini said:
A good place to start is indeed Calvin’s Institutes, Book 3, chap. 18, which has the highly relevant title: “The Righteousness of Works Improperly Inferred from Rewards.” Here’s an excerpt (from section 3):

Edwin
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I don’t find this to be convincing.

Thanks for the info. however.
 
Contarini said:
Why not?

Edwin
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A reward is for service.

Calvin seems to be saying that God will make some people do good works rather than enable them to do good works. His words seem meant to obfuscate not clarify.
 
CHESTERTONRULES said:
A reward is for service.

Calvin seems to be saying that God will make some people do good works rather than enable them to do good works.
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You’re assuming that when we are speaking of our relationship with God, the two things are incompatible. That seems like a big assumption, when speaking of God.

If I “make” you do something, obviously you are my puppet and your actions are meaningless. But God made me in the first place. It seems presumptuous to assume that for God to cause us efficaciously to do something (what you mean by God “making” us do something) is no different from my “making” you do something. God is not just another being hanging about in the universe. Without God working in us every moment, we would cease to exist. So I fail to see that God causing me to do good works makes my good works meaningless.

The problem for me is with the other side of the coin: the implication that God in some sense also causes people not to do good, and indeed to do evil. Aquinas made a more serious effort to evade this horrific implication than Calvin, but like you I’m not sure that even Aquinas’s effort was successful.

But I think the Calvinist argument in favor of the meaningfulness and responsibility of human actions caused by God is a reasonable and convincing one.

Edwin
 
Contarini said:
You’re assuming that when we are speaking of our relationship with God, the two things are incompatible. That seems like a big assumption, when speaking of God.

If I “make” you do something, obviously you are my puppet and your actions are meaningless. But God made me in the first place. It seems presumptuous to assume that for God to cause us efficaciously to do something (what you mean by God “making” us do something) is no different from my “making” you do something. God is not just another being hanging about in the universe. Without God working in us every moment, we would cease to exist. So I fail to see that God causing me to do good works makes my good works meaningless.

The problem for me is with the other side of the coin: the implication that God in some sense also causes people not to do good, and indeed to do evil. Aquinas made a more serious effort to evade this horrific implication than Calvin, but like you I’m not sure that even Aquinas’s effort was successful.

But I think the Calvinist argument in favor of the meaningfulness and responsibility of human actions caused by God is a reasonable and convincing one.

Edwin
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We’ll just have to differ.

I think the Calvinist argument is a clever obfuscation that ends up blaming God for our failures and crediting him for our obedience.

I blame man for our failures and credit God for enabling us to succeed.

God gave us an opportunity for success and the grace necessary for success.
 
But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace toward me was not in vain. On the contrary, I worked harder than any of them, though it was not I, but the grace of God that is with me. - Paul
 
Hey Chesterton Rules,

Your conversation with Edwin notwithstanding, I don’t see the problem with the biblical text from a Calvinist perspective. They believe that works are an evidence of justification. They draw a sharp distinction between works that according to them can never justify, and works which offer proof of justification. The latter would be sanctifying works of the just, and God will not fail to reward them.
 
RoryMcKenzie56 said:
Hey Chesterton Rules,

Your conversation with Edwin notwithstanding, I don’t see the problem with the biblical text from a Calvinist perspective. They believe that works are an evidence of justification. They draw a sharp distinction between works that according to them can never justify, and works which offer proof of justification. The latter would be sanctifying works of the just, and God will not fail to reward them.
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A very wise post.
 
RoryMcKenzie56 said:
Hey Chesterton Rules,

Your conversation with Edwin notwithstanding, I don’t see the problem with the biblical text from a Calvinist perspective. They believe that works are an evidence of justification. They draw a sharp distinction between works that according to them can never justify, and works which offer proof of justification. The latter would be sanctifying works of the just, and God will not fail to reward them.
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I agree that this is the Calvinist perspective. However, that’s not what the passage says.

Jesus says that he will give to everyone according to what they have done.

Calvinists claim that Jesus already did all the work for us.(the elect, that is)
 
CHESTERTONRULES said:
I agree that this is the Calvinist perspective. However, that’s not what the passage says.

Jesus says that he will give to everyone according to what they have done.

Calvinists claim that Jesus already did all the work for us.(the elect, that is)
Click to expand...
I think we have to understand good works in light of what we are trying to merit. We all understand Ephesians 2:8-10 is in the Bible.

Ephesians 2:8-10:

For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.
 
2nd_Adam said:
I think we have to understand good works in light of what we are trying to merit. We all understand Ephesians 2:8-10 is in the Bible.

Ephesians 2:8-10:

For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.
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We were created for good works. Not all choose to utilize God’s grace and walk in these good works.

Everyone will be judged according to what they have done, including you and I.

We can’t do it alone, but we can do it with God’s grace. We still must choose to do it!
 
CHESTERTONRULES said:
I agree that this is the Calvinist perspective. However, that’s not what the passage says.
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Well no. The passage doesn’t elaborate a theology of good works. But the passage as it stands is compatible with a number of different theological positions, including the Calvinist one. (Some other Protestants have many more problems with this passage, I think.)
Jesus says that he will give to everyone according to what they have done.
Click to expand...
Calvinists claim that Jesus already did all the work for us.(the elect, that is)
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Calvinists do not think that Jesus has already done the works that will be rewarded. Arguably Luther taught this. Calvin didn’t take that view. Calvinists believe that Jesus has done all the work necessary to ensure that the elect will do good works and be rewarded, and furthermore that these good works are worked in the elect by the Holy Spirit.

Edwin
 
I’m having trouble understanding the difference between my statement and yours. And yes, I am trying to be difficult! 🙂
Quote:
Jesus says that he will give to everyone according to what they have done.
Click to expand...
Calvinists claim that Jesus already did all the work for us.(the elect, that is)
Click to expand...
Calvinists do not think that Jesus has already done the works that will be rewarded. Arguably Luther taught this. Calvin didn’t take that view. Calvinists believe that Jesus has done all the work necessary to ensure that the elect will do good works and be rewarded, and furthermore that these good works are worked in the elect by the Holy Spirit.
Edwin
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I have a C-factor of 69%. Ironically, many of the traits that led me to give “Calvinist” answers come from my Wesleyan Holiness upbringing!

Edwin
 
Contarini said:
I have a C-factor of 69%. Ironically, many of the traits that led me to give “Calvinist” answers come from my Wesleyan Holiness upbringing!

Edwin
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LOL… that’s dangerous. It’s like asking John Wesley to teach us Calvinism on this Catholic Forum site. Here is a link for those who want to know what Reformed Christians generally believe.

monergism.com/

:bounce:
 
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