Does transubstantiation require that the priest touch the bread and the wine, or that he focuses his attention on it?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Donald.n.riggs
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
I was referring to the example from Tomh1 (just prior to my post).
 
That is what I said. Obviously, we know that God is involved. I believe that should be understood rather than needing to be explicitly said. What we are discussing is the actions of the priest.
 
TomH1 said:
No, that’s not correct. For the administration of a sacrament there must be proximity.
Click to expand...
That’s what I said, and was immediately told that all that mattered was intent. I can understand @Donald.n.riggs 's interpretation of the consensus on thus thread. I am surprised that people think that way, but it does appear to be the case.
 
tafan2 said:
That’s what I said
Click to expand...
I don’t know if you follow Fr Z’s Blog (here) but he’s been talking about this a lot recently because of the current circumstances. A lot of people have been asking about confession, e.g. could they do it over the phone. His message is abundantly clear. There must be close proximity between the priest and the matter of a sacrament.
 
If I’m not mistaken, in the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom, the priest touches neither the bread nor then wine when he consecrates them. I’m certain no Catholic contests the validity of the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom.
 
I think that when discussing these types of things, we should be careful how the issue is framed. Transubstantiation is a miracle, not a magic spell. Therefore, we should differentiate between the requirements of the rubrics, and what is proper for the priest to do, and the power of God to act as He sees fit. I think @MtnDwellar’s post is a correct and simple answer, but I would also remind us all of what Jesus promised in Luke 11:11-13.
 
I thought we were talking about transubstantiation.

As previously mentioned, there are four minimum requirements. Proximity is not one of them.
 
So it us your position that a priest can consecrate the bread and wine from 1000 miles away?
 
Because it is not the priest, but God who is responsible for the transubstantiation - a thousand miles is not an obstacle if it is His will.
 
MtnDwellar said:
I thought we were talking about transubstantiation.

As previously mentioned, there are four minimum requirements. Proximity is not one of them.
Click to expand...
MtnDwellar said:
Because it is not the priest, but God who is responsible for the transubstantiation - a thousand miles is not an obstacle if it is His will.
Click to expand...
It simply does not work like that. If it did then there is no reason why you or I could not celebrate Mass. We cannot because we are not a priest. Of course, the graces we receive from sacraments come from God and no one is denying that. However, when consecrated bishops and ordained priests offer the Mass they do so in persona Christi. Likewise, when we sin it is God who forgives us not the Church or the individual confessor. However, the Church tells us we must go to a priest for confession. Simply asking forgiveness ourselves is contrary to Catholic theology, it’s a Protestant mentality.

You say four things are required and one of those is intent. The priest intends to consecrate those elements that are on the altar or nearby. Proximity matters! What if he were to consecrate, as you believe he could, all those loaves of bread in the bakery across the road. That bread will not be given the proper respect as the Body of Christ. It’ll be put to many profane uses. That is why proximity matters.

I suspect that I shall not convince you so perhaps you could go to Fr Z’s Blog (here) and scroll down to the advice he has been giving about people trying to find a solution for getting to confession in these troubled times. He explains why proximity is required.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top