Does War violate and go against the Bible?

[Sky_River]

One of the moral issues that I find the most troubling from a Christian perspective is the issue of warfare. There are many reasons why I find war to be very sad and tragic, which it most certainly is, however, one of them stands out the most, which I will get too very soon.

You see, in the bible, most prominently and especially during/in the days of the old testament. God commanded his people to go to wars to punish the pagan nations that were barbaric and morally evil. For instance, the israelites went to war with the caananites and several other tribes and nations. Also, Joshua and King David and several others, such as king saul for instance, all were people of high status and rank (such as a king or a general), who had armies and went to war and had battles. Yet god never once condemned King David and others for going to war in those circumstances. Gideon is another example too. Gideon, was a soldier. God never condemned the warriors and soldiers in the old testament. If he was against what they were doing, he would have told us so in the bible.

Also, in the new testament, Jesus and john the baptist met and spoke to roman centurions but they never condemned them for their professions as soldiers.So, it’s safe to assume that God doesn’t always condemn war, but only**** just wars. Wars that are meant to protect the innocent, and to defeat evil people.

While war is a very sad and terrible things that costs human lives and it causes pain and sadness and suffering, in some situations, war defeats evil tyrants, dictators, and other evil people. It is a nessecary evil in certain circumstances. However, i am still very troubled on one thing, though, in paticular.

If a person has accepted jesus christ as their savior into their heart and they repent of their sins, when they die, they got to heaven. If they are unsaved, they go to hell.

In war, many of the people that die in wars, both in modern times and in biblical times, are unsaved. Their life is cut short by dying in war, by their enemy. Because they are unsaved, they go to hell when they die. If their enemy had not killed them in war, they probably might have lived on to become a Christian and go to heaven, but because they died in warfare, their life, or more specifically, their chance at salvation was ended by an enemy soldier. So, it’s safe to say that an enemy who kills another enemy during war ends their chance at them getting saved and going to Heaven, but rather, sends them to eternal torment in hell.

Just wars are a response to temporary, earthly, problems and conflicts. How can God ever justify something like war, which is just an earthly dispute and conflict, that can effect somebody’s eternal destiny and salvation-whether or not they spend eternity with God or suffer in hell in torment for all of eternity???

I always thought that war was very sinful and evil because it sends unsaved people to hell and ends their chance at accepting Jesus into their heart and it forces them to spend an eternity in eternal suffering. Am I right or wrong??? I am very conflicted between what the bible says about god’s attitude towards just wars, such as wars that defeat evil people and protect the innocent people, and the observations and opinions that I made about war.

Who else has felt this dilemmia???

Also, i apologize for my extreme punctuation. its just an OCD thing, im trying to stop it.

 

[VeritasLuxMea]

I am confused because many of the posters here will go to great lengths to make war into a glorious event. It is no such thing, of course.

As Christians, we are not required to be pacifists. That is true.

However, war, even when justified, is most unfortunate and never worthy of being glorified and exalted. We are called, as Christians, to love our neighbors and to be peacemakers - to the extent possible.

 

[oldcatholicguy]

I always thought that war was very sinful and evil because it sends unsaved people to hell and ends their chance at accepting Jesus into their heart and it forces them to spend an eternity in eternal suffering. Am I right or wrong??? I am very conflicted between what the bible says about god’s attitude towards just wars, such as wars that defeat evil people and protect the innocent people, and the observations and opinions that I made about war.

Who else has felt this dilemmia???

Also, i apologize for my extreme punctuation. its just an OCD thing, im trying to stop it.

You are assuming power and authority that we do not have. The impact on others of every positive or negative action we take is already incorporated into God’s plan for each of us. A soldier killing another soldier on the battlefield is not limiting or robbing the dead soldier of a chance to be saved. His allotted time on earth to make that choice was up.

 

[HansTrappist]

One of the moral issues that I find the most troubling from a Christian perspective is the issue of warfare. There are many reasons why I find war to be very sad and tragic, which it most certainly is, however, one of them stands out the most, which I will get too very soon.

You see, in the bible, most prominently and especially during/in the days of the old testament. God commanded his people to go to wars to punish the pagan nations that were barbaric and morally evil. For instance, the israelites went to war with the caananites and several other tribes and nations. Also, Joshua and King David and several others, such as king saul for instance, all were people of high status and rank (such as a king or a general), who had armies and went to war and had battles. Yet god never once condemned King David and others for going to war in those circumstances. Gideon is another example too. Gideon, was a soldier. God never condemned the warriors and soldiers in the old testament. If he was against what they were doing, he would have told us so in the bible.

Also, in the new testament, Jesus and john the baptist met and spoke to roman centurions but they never condemned them for their professions as soldiers.So, it’s safe to assume that God doesn’t always condemn war, but only**** just wars. Wars that are meant to protect the innocent, and to defeat evil people.

While war is a very sad and terrible things that costs human lives and it causes pain and sadness and suffering, in some situations, war defeats evil tyrants, dictators, and other evil people. It is a nessecary evil in certain circumstances. However, i am still very troubled on one thing, though, in paticular.

If a person has accepted jesus christ as their savior into their heart and they repent of their sins, when they die, they got to heaven. If they are unsaved, they go to hell.

In war, many of the people that die in wars, both in modern times and in biblical times, are unsaved. Their life is cut short by dying in war, by their enemy. Because they are unsaved, they go to hell when they die. If their enemy had not killed them in war, they probably might have lived on to become a Christian and go to heaven, but because they died in warfare, their life, or more specifically, their chance at salvation was ended by an enemy soldier. So, it’s safe to say that an enemy who kills another enemy during war ends their chance at them getting saved and going to Heaven, but rather, sends them to eternal torment in hell.

Just wars are a response to temporary, earthly, problems and conflicts. How can God ever justify something like war, which is just an earthly dispute and conflict, that can effect somebody’s eternal destiny and salvation-whether or not they spend eternity with God or suffer in hell in torment for all of eternity???

I always thought that war was very sinful and evil because it sends unsaved people to hell and ends their chance at accepting Jesus into their heart and it forces them to spend an eternity in eternal suffering. Am I right or wrong??? I am very conflicted between what the bible says about god’s attitude towards just wars, such as wars that defeat evil people and protect the innocent people, and the observations and opinions that I made about war.

Who else has felt this dilemmia???

Also, i apologize for my extreme punctuation. its just an OCD thing, im trying to stop it.

The only kind of war that is considered legitimate is “Just War.” The Catholic Church has a Just War Doctrine that spells out the criteria that must be met for any War to be considered Just. Some of the criteria pertain to the decision to go to war and then other criteria pertain to the actual waging of the war.

Needless to say, most modern wars are unjust wars. Waging a a Just War takes a lot of discipline, both physical and spiritual. Just Wars were more common when the Catholic Church had a more prominent role in affairs of the State. The modern wars have been waged largely by Freemasons and so have a hard time meeting the Just War Doctrine.

 

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[anruari]

Here’s an article on the EWTN “Catholic Answers” website (part of the larger network that this site belongs to)

ewtn.com/expert/answers/just_war.htm

It is based on the contents of the Catechism

In simple:
Most wars are evil.
A country has the right, duty and obligation to defend itself against an unjust invader or attacker. But the war must have a high chance of success.
It never has the right to pursue foreign wars for territory or resources.

Most wars in the modern world do not meet the cirteria for a just war.
Before the second gulf war (in which Saddam Hussain was overthrown) Pope J.P.II held an audience with Tony Blair, and sent messages to George Bush specifically advising them that the planned invasion of Iraq was not a justifiable war.

I think it the action by the west in Lybia, which shortened that war, and aided the locals to oust a brutal oppressor may be considered just. It’s specific aim was to protect human life. It probably achieved that aim. it did not cause large collateral damage.

---

To simplify the equation down to a domestic situation:
you have a wife and children. An attacker has entered your hours, with violence and clearly intend to rape and murder your children. you have the ability to defend them and a reasonable chance of success - with limited chance of accidently killing or maiming the wrong person. - In this situation you have a clear right to try to defend your family.

A national or international war can be considered “Just” when it resembles this domestic situation.
A good example was World War 2 in europe: when Great Brittain, France and other countries fought against the oppression and expansionist axis of Facisim and Nazism. On the other side of the world: the USA was justified in declaring war both in Europe to assist the defenders, as well as on the pacific ocean, where Japan specifically attacked the USA and deliberatlely drew them into the war - again they were expansionist agressors and the USA was defending itself and its allies.

Most wars since then are much less easy to consider “Just”. Many have been fought over resources such as oil, or political ideaoligy, and have had enormous cost in terms of human life and suffering.

 

[Sky_River]

You are assuming power and authority that we do not have. The impact on others of every positive or negative action we take is already incorporated into God’s plan for each of us. A soldier killing another soldier on the battlefield is not limiting or robbing the dead soldier of a chance to be saved. His allotted time on earth to make that choice was up.

What do you mean that I am assuming power and authority that we do not have???

I apologize if I seem arguementative. That is not my intention. Also, the puncutation is an OCD thing, i aint trying to be rude with it. However, I disagree with your last post that his time to make that choice was up…

Also, I made an observation here. Just wars are fought to protect innocent lives, and many of those innocent lives that the soldiers on the good side protect and defend are unsaved people/individuals. By saving their lives, the soldiers are actually giving them another chance at salvation…

 

[oldcatholicguy]

What do you mean that I am assuming power and authority that we do not have???

I apologize if I seem arguementative. That is not my intention. Also, the puncutation is an OCD thing, i aint trying to be rude with it. However, I disagree with your last post that his time to make that choice was up…

Also, I made an observation here. Just wars are fought to protect innocent lives, and many of those innocent lives that the soldiers on the good side protect and defend are unsaved people/individuals. By saving their lives, the soldiers are actually giving them another chance at salvation…

You don’t seem argumentative at all. As to my comment I meant that your point boils down to us having the power to send someone to hell (by killing them before they had a chance to be saved) or send them to heaven (by not killing them). That’s outside of our abilities and our authority.

 

[Sky_River]

You don’t seem argumentative at all. As to my comment I meant that your point boils down to us having the power to send someone to hell (by killing them before they had a chance to be saved) or send them to heaven (by not killing them). That’s outside of our abilities and our authority.

Before I ever made this observation, when I thought about this topic, war never really bothered me and struck me as sinful the way that it does now. I looked at it from an earthly, temporal, perspective, not from an eternal one.

However, what do you mean by it’s out of our abilities and our authority??? Im very curious to hear your ur opinion

 

[Vouthon]

I find Blessed Pope John Paul II’s reflections on the Second World War from the perspective of his country Poland, enlightening:

“…This alliance was the consequence of events that began on September 1939. The Polish Republic was then seeking allies in the West, aware that it would be unable to face the invasion of Hitler’s Germany alone. But perhaps this was not the only reason. Poles were aware of the fact that the conflict they were forced to face was not only demanded by patriotism, to defend the independence of the State they had so recently regained, but also had broader implications for the whole of Europe. Europe had to defend itself from the same threat as Poland. The national socialist system was opposed - if this can be said - to the “European spirit”. And this problem could not be dealt with by endless attempts at apparent solutions. These attempts resulted in further victims with the invasion of Czechoslovakia. It was clear that other similar consequences would have occurred had Europe not decided to take** a firm stand in the military sense as well. The decision taken by the Polish Republic in 1939 was therefore right. Indeed, it clearly appeared that Europe could not be defended without deciding on a defensive war, whose first phase was precisely Poland in 1939**…Poland had been fighting from the first day to the last, not only to defend her own freedom, but for the future of Europe and the world…On the ruins of the Second World War, a united Europe began to be built, and those who were its first builders staunchly clung to the Christian roots of European culture…”

- Blessed John Paul II, 1994, THE FIFTIETH ANNIVERSARY OF MONTE CASSINO

 

[Sky_River]

I am confused because many of the posters here will go to great lengths to make war into a glorious event. It is no such thing, of course.

As Christians, we are not required to be pacifists. That is true.

However, war, even when justified, is most unfortunate and never worthy of being glorified and exalted. We are called, as Christians, to love our neighbors and to be peacemakers - to the extent possible.

What “posters” here make war seem like such a glorious event???