Does what we know about transgender people throw a wrench at Catholic teaching on sex and marriage?

[St_Francis]

Yes

Semantics. You are basically asserting that Humane Vitae etc. is different from the sentence against Gallileo because the former is a doctrinal document why the latter is a discplinary document. I find that distinction to be artificial. What you are trying to do is divorce orthodoxy from orthopraxis.

Not at all. We are dealing with two *documents. *One deals with a disciplinary matter, and one is a papal encyclical about Chirch teaching. It’s like the difference between a newspaper article and a law signed by the President.

But if you do that, then for example you cannot cite Didache as evidence that the Church has always opposed abortion, because Didache is a disciplinary document, not a doctrinal document.

Yes, bit we cite Didache as *evidence *that the Church taught, not as the document itself as HV is.

I even know why this distinction was developed – it was a defense against those who were deploying Gallileo to attack papal infallibility.

Which distinction? You mention two in this post, and the post itself is about a third distinction.

Nevertheless, I believe that if a widespread praxis in some area exists – especially if this praxis is codified in a disciplinary document – then this praxis is the view of the Church, even if it is not explictly codified as such at the doctrinal level. JP2 used this reasoning in Ordinatio Sacerdotalis: since there was never a praxis of ordaining women, then women cannot be ordained.

Praxis means practice or custom. Believing that earth is in the center of the universe with everything else going round it is a *belief, *not an *action. *Nor are there any reasonable actions flowing from that particular belief.

Ordaining or not ordaining people is an action and cannot be compared to the belief in a geocentric universe.

Since the research into the phenomenon of transsexualism is relatively new, we are not yet quite sure what this phenomenon phenomenon actually is. However, at one point we will know, and it’s entirely possible that this finding will lead to revision of current praxis concerning the issue. (This will not be a major problem, unless Vatican decides to shot itself in the foot in the mean time by issuing a document elevating current praxis to doctrinal level. )

To the Church’s credit, it always follows scientific knowledge, even if it takes a while to catch up

Regarding the present praxis of not allowing transsexuals to marry, I do not think that this is set in stone either. The main argument against marrying transsexuals is that they are infertile by definition. However, the Church already allows infertile couples to marry (can. 1084.3). So I do not see a fundamental problem with marrying a trans person, provided that they disclose their trans status prior to marriage, so there is no ground for annulment per can. 1098.

Making a rule is praxis, but the rule itself is not praxis.

How can the Church possibly allow a transsexual who has had the surgery to marry? Whom would they be able to marry? In the cases of men now living as women, they would be unable to marry men, because they are men. And yet they would be unable to marry women, because they would be unable to function as men in the marriage since the surgery has rendered them impotent, which *is *a bar to marriage. Impotence and infertility are two different things.

Christ is resurrected, rejoince! (You too, trans people!).

He is risen indeed

 

[jonathan_hili]

Good question!

In case of anorexia, there is a good objective reason to reject self-identification as overweight, because accepting it would mean that the individual would startve herself to death.

In case of someone believing himself to be Jesus Christ, then there is a good objective reason to reject such self-identification because there was only one Jesus Christ.

If you want to reject the transsexual’s wish to change sex, you’d have to demonstrate one of two things:

(a) the disorder does not actually exists – or, that it’s a delusion, and that you can treat such delusion;

(b) that the individual will be better off if they don’t change sex.

AFAIK the current state of medical knowledge is that neither (a) nor (b) holds, so it’s best to go forth with the sex change.

Of course, I must say that the doctor should be really sure that sex change is the best course of action. It should not be done just because.

I think it is rather a matter of principle than utilitarianism (i.e. what is “best” as an outcome). Why? Because the issue isn’t outcomes.

Let’s say you come across an anorexic girl. She says that she will immediately start eating normally if you just admit to her this minute that she is fat, which is what she genuinely believes. Okay, the outcome of admitting this will be that she will regain her health by affirming her in her delusion. So, is her mental state correct after all? Obviously not because she is clearly not fat regardless of whether she will die of starvation or not. It’s an objective observation that she is not fat and that her mental state is obviously wrong.

Similarly, let’s say the lunatic said he was a reincarnation of Jesus Christ, and genuinely believed it. Very few of us would take him at his word because his external appearance and - this is an important point we haven’t really touched on - inherent capacities/potential don’t seem to mirror those of Christ, e.g. he can’t perform miracles, walk on water, etc.

With a transgendered person, it seems that the delusion exists because the outward appearance and the capacities/potential (sexual or otherwise) are at variance with the mental state, and when this is generally the case, we reasonably opt for the outward appearance and capacities/potential. This, of course, may not apply to those cases which are genetically or biologically based.

 

[Stephanie_Pauls]

SP,

So Aspergers for you is the greater cross to bear and that indicates to me that GD is easier to deal with than Asperger. So let us say for discussion sake the magic wand allowed two wishes…would you wish away the GD?

Id wish my brain and body sex were one in the same without changing my personality.