Does women way of dressing affect the possibility of sexual assault?

  • Thread starter Thread starter meedo
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
M

meedo

Guest
hi,

I just read the thread about the Australian Imam . I think his way of expressing his idea was very crude. But i wonder if he is wrong in principle.

I personally believe that women way of dress can considerably affect the possibilities of sexual assault.

Do you ?

Please lets keep this thread civil.

thanks

meedo
 
I believe that women can dress in a way that encourages sexual thoughts about them and that this is wrong.

HOWEVER, that wrong in no way compares to the wrong done when they are sexually assaulted.

A woman could walk down the street completely and totally naked, and she would not be to blame for the assault committed upon her if one happened.

Women should practice modesty in my opinion, because it encourages civility, and because it helps men. We are called to help eachother, and so they should help men.

However, men must take responsibility for their own actions as well, and in no way can rape or sexual assault be mitigated by what the woman was wearing, or how she “swayed”.

We are culpable for our own sins, and we are called to not lead others astray (better a millstone be tied around their neck and them cast into the sea than lead one of these little ones astray)
We are ultimately responsible for ourselves. The men who assault women are responsible for their own actions, and must take responsibility for it.

A lone Raven

p.s.- I voted no, I believe immodesty is wrong, but it is not asking for it.
 
Dispelling Myths about sexual assault

This is an excerpt taken from the above mentioned website:

**MYTH: **Women who are sexually assaulted “ask for it” by the way they dress or act.
**FACT: **The idea that women “ask for it” is often used by offenders to rationalize their behavior. It also blames the victim for the crime, not the offender.
Victims of sexual assault report a wide range of dress and actions at the time of the assault. Any woman of any age and physical type, in almost any situation, can be sexually assaulted. If a woman is sexually assaulted, it is not her fault. No woman ever “asks” or deserves to be sexually assaulted. Whatever a woman wears, wherever she goes, whomever she talks to, “no” means “no”. It’s the law.
 
Sexual assault is more about the violence than the sex. After all, if all the attacker wants is sex, it’s a heck of a lot easier (and the penalties less severe) to pay a hooker.

Men and women are each assumed to have total control of their sexual urges. I don’t care if a man is walking down the street buck naked and built like Adonis, any woman that jumps him while he is unwilling is as guilty of rape as someone who kidnaps a fully dressed man and jumps him. And the same goes for the fellows.
 
meedo said:
hi,

I just read the thread about the Australian Imam . I think his way of expressing his idea was very crude. But i wonder if he is wrong in principle.

I personally believe that women way of dress can considerably affect the possibilities of sexual assault.

Do you ?

Please lets keep this thread civil.

thanks

meedo
Click to expand...
He was ridicuously extreme, but it is definitely an act of charity for women to dress in a way that is not provocative to men. The problem is that the standard is impossible to set. In Iran, anything less than a chaddor is “provocative.” Some Jews consider an exposed elbow “provocative.” Some ‘modesty’ gurus say that for a woman to wear a belt is immodest. In parts of Africa, women go around bare-breasted, and nobody turns a hair. In China, 100 years ago, people thought that bound feet were the essence of sexual enticement.

So I give a qualified “yes” to the idea that we need to teach our girls to dress with some sensitivity to the norms of the surrounding culture, and not to push the envelope of what is considered sexually provocative. In my world, for example, a woman wearing a pair of chino slacks and an open-collared, short-sleeved polo shirt would in no way be considered immodest or provocative. A skirt just 2" below the knee would not be considered immodest.

In another place, other customs might prevail. It depends on the custom.

That said, men cannot be absolved of their own responsibility. A woman who dresses provocatively AND who behaves provocatively in a one-to-one interaction is doing a far different thing from a woman who is walking down the street in a hip-slung, thigh-grazing skirt and a bikini top. That woman may be displaying bad judgment, but she is not inviting rape – or even conversation. Thinking of her as meat in the lion cage is just plain predatory.

Christians are called upon to love our brothers and sisters, not to rape them – even when a person displays outrageously poor judgment.
 
Thank you for your responses.

Please look at the headline of the question carefully.

I am NOT saying rape is ok

I am NOT saying that women are asking for it.

I am NOT saying that they deserve to be raped

I am NOT saying that rapists shouldnt be punished ( In Islam its death penalty for rape)

I am simply asking if modest dress would decrease the chances of sexual assualt ?

Please answer accordingly

thanks
 
Let me say it:

Rape is a crime of POWER. Most women who are raped are not dressed to ‘entice’ men, because most women who are raped are either victims of war assaults, are children and BABIES, or elderly women, or poor women.

Men rape because they want the power, not the sex. Many rapists are married, even reporting themselves happily married, or in stable long term relationships, so they are not ‘deprived’. Despite hollywood and media hype, most rapists aren’t poor lonely men ‘led on’ or deceived or previously traumatized by scantily dressed temptresses who ‘suddenly’ say no in the middle of things leaving the poor man in such a state that he “has” to rape; nor are they ‘psychotic’ beings out to punish mama or do ‘the will of God’ by ‘punishing’ the ‘bad girls’.

And most men have control over themselves. Even if they saw Paris Hilton in a G-string walking down a dark alley, MOST men would not feel they were ‘led on’ or victimized into raping her.

Men, take some responsibility for your actions and stop blaming the woman, the ‘dress’, the ‘situation’, and everything but your own power lust for rape. (BTW women this goes for you too–if I had a nickel for every woman who told me that a woman out on the street at 2 a.m. was ‘asking for trouble’ if she happened to be raped, I’d be a millionaire. Poor judgment is one thing, and that is poor judgment. . .but nobody ASKS to be raped or DESERVES to be raped.) And I think the OP is perilously close to presenting the scenario of women “deserving” to be raped because of THEIR actions while completely exonerating the actual perpetrator/rapists for THEIR actions.
 
Thank you for your responses,

Please note the following :

I am NOT saying rape is ok!

I am NOT saying the rapist should be punished!

I am NOT saying that the lady is asking for it!

I am NOT saying that Dress is the only reason for rape!

i am simply asking in your opinion if the chances would decrease if Modesty in dress is observed.

Please answer accordingly!

thank you
 
Meedo, to answer your last question quickly; the answer would be ‘no’. . .a qualified ‘no’.

As has been set forth by many (thanks, jrabs!), what women wear has NO effect in either attracting or deterring rape, despite media reports or the wails of caught rapists. Having women dress ‘more modestly’ would NOT result in ‘fewer rapes’ because as I said rape is about POWER, not about sexual lust or sexual responsiveness.

Having men take responsibility for their refusal to control their power lust and be educated enough to realize that women aren’t packages for their consumption would result in fewer rapes.
 
Tantum_ergo said:
Meedo, to answer your last question quickly; the answer would be ‘no’. . .a qualified ‘no’.

As has been set forth by many (thanks, jrabs!), what women wear has NO effect in either attracting or deterring rape, despite media reports or the wails of caught rapists. Having women dress ‘more modestly’ would NOT result in ‘fewer rapes’ because as I said rape is about POWER, not about sexual lust or sexual responsiveness.

Having men take responsibility for their refusal to control their power lust and be educated enough to realize that women aren’t packages for their consumption would result in fewer rapes.
Click to expand...
:amen: I am sure Meedo did not want to take this thread down the path of what constitutes rape in Islam. But finding 3 men to testify on a woman’s behalf in most rape cases would simply be impossible. (Indeed, if 3 such men were present, why would they not strong-arm the rapist and prevent the act? Rape is mostly a one-on-one crime against women who find themselves unprotected and alone.

Should women be unprotected and alone? Why not? A civilized society is one in which a woman can go about unprotected and alone without fear of assault. A society which delcares a woman stupid or immoral for walking down the street needs to re-assess its values and quality of life.
 
I used to work for the Correctional Service…

Based on the evidence I have heard said many times by offenders,
the way women dress provokes men into thinking that women are up for it’.

I quote:

1 ‘She dresses like that because she is asking for it’

2 ‘She is wanting to get laid’
  1. ‘She is on heat’.
  2. ‘She is begging for sex’.
  3. ‘She needs a man and is dressed to find one’.
  4. ‘She is asking for it’.
  5. ‘She definitely wanted sex because of how she was dressed’
  6. ‘I had no doubt in my mind she wanted me to… because she was dressed to pull’.
Please note these are not my views. I am merely quoting the things that have been said to me by offenders, who have mis-read the way a woman is dressed.

I do not share any of the above views. I am very sorry if they offend.

I have even heard complaints that the way a woman dresses, causes suffer of physical pain, Women please take note that it is not fair to cause another human being to suffer needlessly.

In lots of cases, men on seeing an attractive woman dressed provocatively, do mental rape. That we Catholic men know is a mortal sin and as bad as the real thing. But, some men do not have control of their dodily urges.

Pax Christi
 
mercygate said:
:amen: I am sure Meedo did not want to take this thread down the path of what constitutes rape in Islam. But finding 3 men to testify on a woman’s behalf in most rape cases would simply be impossible. (Indeed, if 3 such men were present, why would they not strong-arm the rapist and prevent the act? Rape is mostly a one-on-one crime against women who find themselves unprotected and alone.

Should women be unprotected and alone? Why not? A civilized society is one in which a woman can go about unprotected and alone without fear of assault. A society which delcares a woman stupid or immoral for walking down the street needs to re-assess its values and quality of life.
Click to expand...
it would help if you open another thread for rape in Islam. It doesnt need 4 witnesses in Islam to say a woman has been raped. If she said she was raped then she is found not guilty of sin. Your above information about Islam are all wrong . Please open a separate thread for it and lets stay to the topic

thanks
 
meedo said:
it would help if you open another thread for rape in Islam. It doesnt need 4 witnesses in Islam to say a woman has been raped. If she said she was raped then she is found not guilty of sin. Your above information about Islam are all wrong . Please open a separate thread for it and lets stay to the topic

thanks
Click to expand...
Thank you, Meedo. I stand corrected on both counts.
 
I find the criteque of Islam offensive.

I POLITELY ASK MY CHRISTIAN BROTHERS AND SISTERS NOT TO PURSUE THIS LINE OF DEBATE:thumbsup:
 
PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY.

If a person rapes, murders, covets, desires… the sin is THEIR fault. not the fault of the object of the crime.

always.

no wishy washy “she was wearing a short skirt so i…”

complete nonsense.

the perp is ALWAYS at fault. and no, the temptation is in the mind of the assailant, NOT the victim.

thats the society we live in… blaming everything on everybody else when the truth is you can only control yourself…
 
Sixtus said:
I find the criteque of Islam offensive.

I POLITELY ASK MY CHRISTIAN BROTHERS AND SISTERS NOT TO PURSUE THIS LINE OF DEBATE:thumbsup:
Click to expand...
If you are referring to my earlier post, please accept my apology. I appreciate being corrected when I am mistaken.

This thread is about modesty and individual responsibility. I agree that the social ramifications of the broader question need to be addressed on their own.
 
Sixtus said:
I find the criteque of Islam offensive.

I POLITELY ASK MY CHRISTIAN BROTHERS AND SISTERS NOT TO PURSUE THIS LINE OF DEBATE:thumbsup:
Click to expand...
how come in your profile you list yourself as Catholic but on another thread today you said ‘allah is the greatest’?

just wondering.
 
I think that it is self-evident that the way that a woman dresses can affect the chances that she is sexually assaulted. If a woman is dressed in a sensual or highly suggestive fashion, men can interpret that to mean that the woman is more “open” or “available”. Further, if you have a man who is so morally depraved as to sexually assault a woman, seeing a woman dressed in a sexually suggestive manner may be “just enough” to encourage him to step over the line from looking to touching (assaulting). This is common sense and we do a disservice to our daughters by suggesting otherwise. I say this as the father of a son and two daughters.

Now, let me make the necessary disclaimer when discussing sensitive issues like this. I am not saying that a woman who dresses this way is “asking for it” or that she “deserves what comes to her”. Morally and legally, it does not matter an iota if the woman is scantily clad or dressed like a Victorian Lady because nothing can justify a man imposing himself on an unwilling woman. Nonetheless, it would be foolish for us to pretend, in the interest of political correctness, that dressing like “a lady of the night” has no consequences.
 
I do think that a women dressing provacatively will invite the notice of predators more, therefore yes I do think women’s dress can affect an attack.

However and I can’t stress this enough, it isn’t her fault, it is the sick pervert who attacked her. But the dress is what’s going to get the notice of the perverted predator.

On the NYC subway there was a guy who would attack women to lick their feet, so who knows though, apparently open toed shoes are a no-no now. But in general there is a lot of sick guys out there, and by keeping the goods to yourself you may not attract attention.

To relate I was walking to Fed-Ex through Hell’s kitchen which still has some bad areas, I took off my watch and placed it in my pocket because I don’t want it to attract a mugger. If I were to be mugged it wouldn’t be my fault, but the watch IS why I was attacked.
 
Sixtus said:
I used to work for the Correctional Service…

Based on the evidence I have heard said many times by offenders,
the way women dress provokes men into thinking that women are up for it’.

I quote:

1 ‘She dresses like that because she is asking for it’

2 ‘She is wanting to get laid’
  1. ‘She is on heat’.
  2. ‘She is begging for sex’.
  3. ‘She needs a man and is dressed to find one’.
  4. ‘She is asking for it’.
  5. ‘She definitely wanted sex because of how she was dressed’
  6. ‘I had no doubt in my mind she wanted me to… because she was dressed to pull’.
Please note these are not my views. I am merely quoting the things that have been said to me by offenders, who have mis-read the way a woman is dressed.

I do not share any of the above views. I am very sorry if they offend.

I have even heard complaints that the way a woman dresses, causes suffer of physical pain, Women please take note that it is not fair to cause another human being to suffer needlessly.

In lots of cases, men on seeing an attractive woman dressed provocatively, do mental rape. That we Catholic men know is a mortal sin and as bad as the real thing. But, some men do not have control of their dodily urges.

Pax Christi
Click to expand...
I believe they say these things outloud to make themselves sound better. I can especially see them saying it to a correctional officer. They want to seem like they are not so bad. really is it rape if its consentual? So convince the correctional officer it was consentual. Maybe they re even trying to convince themselves it was consentual.

Rape is about control and having power to subdue another person. I was raped and I can gaurantee it was NOT about sex or bodily urges. It was about making sure that I had no control over anything that happened to me. Period. It’a a power trip.

It wouldn’t surprise me if modest dress enticed rape MORE, or at least as much because to rape a virtous woman would be MORE powerful.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top