Does women way of dressing affect the possibility of sexual assault?

[Stu]

And some rapists only ever attack old women, 70+ years old.
So when I hit 70 should I stay indoors?

And some rapists only attack sporty women who jog down the street at 6.00a.m in their tracksuits.
Should I give up my fitness routine?

And some rapists only attack women who are alone in a car park after doing some shopping.
Should I only ever drive my car with a passenger?

Sorry to sound sarcastic, but to say that there are certain types of rapists, and that women need to lessen the danger of being attractive to the different types is ludicrous(i think i spelt that wrong)

So you don’t take any precautions in life to minimize your chance of being victimized by a criminal?

 

[Montalban]

So you don’t take any precautions in life to minimize your chance of being victimized by a criminal?

One can always take responsibility for one’s own safety, but to imagine that just because I’ve got lots of money that must compel someone to steal it is rather a silly notion.

 

[Stu]

One can always take responsibility for one’s own safety, but to imagine that just because I’ve got lots of money that must compel someone to steal it is rather a silly notion.

Then go count it all in the open on the street corner where drugs are actively being sold. See how silly some of the perps think you are then.

 

[Montalban]

Then go count it all in the open on the street corner where drugs are actively being sold. See how silly some of the perps think you are then.

So you mean that people who are more likely to steal will steal? And that’s not their fault?

 

[Stu]

So you mean that people who are more likely to steal will steal? And that’s not their fault?

Hardly. We are all responsible for our own actions both good and bad. However with that, one should always take precautions so as to minimize the likelihood of being victimized by those of us in this world who would prey upon others.

In reference again to your orginal statement.

One can always take responsibility for one’s own safety, but to imagine that just because I’ve got lots of money that must compel someone to steal it is rather a silly notion.

While you being rich may not compel someone to steal from you, it could potentially make you a “mark” especially if you are careless. We have locks in this world for a reason.

 

[Jeanette_L]

And some rapists only ever attack old women, 70+ years old.
So when I hit 70 should I stay indoors?

And some rapists only attack sporty women who jog down the street at 6.00a.m in their tracksuits.
Should I give up my fitness routine?

And some rapists only attack women who are alone in a car park after doing some shopping.
Should I only ever drive my car with a passenger?

Sorry to sound sarcastic, but to say that there are certain types of rapists, and that women need to lessen the danger of being attractive to the different types is ludicrous(i think i spelt that wrong)

I really don’t understand why this is so difficult for so many here.

If I have within my power to possibly reduce my chances of drawing unwanted attention to myself, why would I not do this? Because some people argue that I might only be protecting myself from some deranged people and not all deranged people? Does this make sense? I give up one point of self defense because I can’t defend myself from all points?

The arguments are absurd. Of course we cannot predict every avenue of danger and know how and when to avoid all of them. Why would this even be used against the argument of doing what we can to possibly protect ourselves from some?

Do we then not use our seatbelts because they can’t completely protect us from every type of injury presented in traveling in an automobile?

And then there is the argument that if a person recognizes that they may have an opportunity to protect themselves from some dangers, they are somehow treating everyone who gets hurt as though they deserved it. This is equally as preposterous. No one here is in the least bit saying that any woman deserves to be raped, even if they walk down the street naked they don’t deserve to be raped. This is also a rediculous accusation to shut down the discussion.

Some here have discussed briefly as to the use of alcohol or drugs contributing to some cases of rape. We all know that this is sometimes the case. Should we then criticize women who want to be aware of this danger and avoid it so as not to increase their chances of assault? After all, not all rapes are a result of alcohol or drug use, but because some are, we try to make women aware of the dangers and be on guard, for their own protection. Why do we bother if it is a woman’s right to drink or use and not expect to be raped? Because we know this is an area that she can be responsible to try to reduce her chances of assault. Do we then make her responsible for an assault that happens under these very circumstances? No! And she’s not. The rapist is always responsible for his actions, as he should be. But we try to make women aware of things that can at times contribute to her becoming a victim.

I really can’t understand the difficulty with all of this.

:banghead:

 

[Montalban]

Montalban:

So you mean that people who are more likely to steal will steal? And that’s not their fault?

Stu:

Hardly. We are all responsible for our own actions both good and bad. However with that, one should always take precautions so as to minimize the likelihood of being victimized by those of us in this world who would prey upon others.

I can agree that we are responsible for our own actions. A problem here is that we are moving away from the OP towards other types of examples. Leaving money out and a woman dressing a certain way are hardly parallels. Money is more objectively valuable; that is its purpose. Whereas a woman may be dressed to one societal standards as being ‘modest’ and some guy may still consider her immodest. How then can she factor in the multitude of male opinion out there. And of course, she shouldn’t have to.

And of course why aren’t naked women more prone to being raped (that is, women in nudist camps)?

After-all, as people have pointed out, sexual assaults are happening against females of all different ages.

How should a child dress to escape paedophiles?

Stu:

In reference again to your original statement.

Montalban:

One can always take responsibility for one’s own safety, but to imagine that just because I’ve got lots of money that must compel someone to steal it is rather a silly notion.

While you being rich may not compel someone to steal from you, it could potentially make you a “mark” especially if you are careless. We have locks in this world for a reason.

I’ve already agreed to a point, but tell me what this has to do with the OP, given the fact a woman’s dress is not the same as leaving money lying about?

Anyway, I can imagnine now a mugger’s defence “I had to steal the money from him, because he was flashing it about!”

 

[kellie]

So you don’t take any precautions in life to minimize your chance of being victimized by a criminal?

The point of the whole argument is that there are no precautions to minimizing a rape.

Theft from a motor vehicle can be minimized by not placing things in view, and locking the doors.

Burglary from a home can be minimized by locking doors, having a dog, alarm system, or having lights on while out.

Rape cannot be minimized as it is in the mind of the rapist as to what attracts him to the victim.

 

[Montalban]

The point of the whole argument is that there are no precautions to minimizing a rape.

Theft from a motor vehicle can be minimized by not placing things in view, and locking the doors.

Burglary from a home can be minimized by locking doors, having a dog, alarm system, or having lights on while out.

Rape cannot be minimized as it is in the mind of the rapist as to what attracts him to the victim.

That’s it exactly. A woman could be wearing quite dour clothing and still be raped.

 

[Chris7]

I am simply asking if modest dress would decrease the chances of sexual assualt ?

Please answer accordingly

thanks

Yes, common sense suggests that modest dressing would decrease the chances of sexual assault. Having said that though, it would be difficult to quantify given the profiles of the victims we read about on a daily basis (e.g., children, elderly women, etc) As others have eluded to, sexual assault is more about violence and control than it is about sex.

 

[deb1]

I am not. You made a claim that they are making this as a defence. I stated that they can’t where ‘rape shield’ laws exist.

I in no way suggest you agree with them

What type of absurd argument could they make (accepting that you don’t agree with them) that allows them to cut off a woman’s hand?

Hey, Montalban. The case that I was referring to took place in Florida. The man did not cut off the woman’s hand but if I remember correctly, he did slice her palm. THe case got a lot of press but I am having a difficult time finding it on the internet. It occurred before the internet was as popular. The man was found innocent of the charges and the foreperson said that it was because of the woman’s dress. Give me time and I will find a reference to this case, I promise.

 

[deb1]

This is the only mention of the case that I discussed. It is on page two of this article and is called the state verses Lord.

nsulaw.nova.edu/faculty/richmondm/law_and_lit/rape_cases.PDF#search=‘rape%20case%20of%20women%20wearing%20lace%20skirt%20without%20underwear’

Let me say, that I have no idea what else is on that article. I was just looking for that particular case and I did not agree with its outcome.

 

[Stu]

Whereas a woman may be dressed to one societal standards as being ‘modest’ and some guy may still consider her immodest. How then can she factor in the multitude of male opinion out there. And of course, she shouldn’t have to.

Whether she shouldn’t have to is irrevelant with society being the way it is. Of course there is no 100% way to dress in order to avoid a sexual assault. One can however take steps so as not to draw attention to ones self. This includes how we dress. Trying to “fit in” goes a long way in not being victimized. So unless the woman in a particular part of town all dress like the New York City Rockettes, immodest clothing can make one stand out and bring unwanted attention, especially by those who would do harm. A naked woman in a nudist colony is a far cry from that same woman going naked in the most seedy part of town. Granted I can’t factor in the one freak who has issues with women in greens shoes or such but that shouldn’t stop people from taking precautions or making his choice harder by fitting in to the surroundings.

Anyway, I can imagnine now a mugger’s defence “I had to steal the money from him, because he was flashing it about!”

Don’t be so silly. He might say I picked that fool to steal from because he doesn’t take any precautions. Criminals look for the easy mark. Smart people try not to be the easy mark.

 

[Stu]

The point of the whole argument is that there are no precautions to minimizing a rape.

Understood. I just don’t agree. Previously in this thread, there were several things listed from a women’s website on how to prevent a potential rapist. I have also suggested that where legal, women carry a firearm after training of course. Not drawing attention to one’s self is another way to avoid a potential attacker.

Nothing is 100% but that shouldn’t stop us from using the 75% “solution”.

 

[Catholic_Mike]

Seems to me that a lot of people here are just speculating. Unless you can cite a study or something, you don’t really know.

And I think people need to relax. The question - as asked - doesn’t say anything about whose falult it is.

 

[jmcrae]

I think that men really can have no concept of this whole conversation - after all, there is no potential death penalty or possibility of being permanently disfigured for a man to go outside stark naked, if he so chooses - there are no crazy people out there who will do violence on his body as punishment for wearing “the wrong” clothes, whatever those may turn out to be, in the mind of the crazy person.

A man can go out dressed in shorts and a muscle shirt with no thought at all of his safety - no drunken old woman is going to follow him around or knife him in the genitals as “punishment” for stimulating her hormones via his mode of dress, and then refusing to have sex with her.

 

[Stu]

Or alternatively only a man can understand what would make another man carry out such horid actions upon a woman.

Additionatlly, the fact that I have a mother, wife and daughters make me more than capable in understand the problem at hand. Thanks for the concern though.

 

[Stu]

Seems to me that a lot of people here are just speculating. Unless you can cite a study or something, you don’t really know.

CM,

I will freely admit I don’t have a study or such to back up my beliefs. I think it just common sense to not stick out when in public. Due to some of my jobs in the military, I have had somewhat extensive training in countering terrorists to include blending in so as not to stick out and bring attention to yourself. I just think those lessons are applicable on many different levels. Others are certainly free to take their own approach.

 

[deb1]

Or alternatively only a man can understand what would make another man carry out such horid actions upon a woman.

.

I don’t know if this is true. Most men are not rapist. You might get excited by a woman but that is a long cry from rape. It is a far cry from seeing a woman and imagining that you would like to have sex with her and seeing a woman as someone you’d like to ***force ***to have sex with you.

Then again, I have a very high opinion of most of you guys.

 

[jmcrae]

Additionatlly, the fact that I have a mother, wife and daughters make me more than capable in understand the problem at hand. Thanks for the concern though.

Good - then you will go out on a purging campaign to get rid of all the rapists, to either cure them or lock them away forever - instead of pontificating upon how women ought to dress, while leaving these monsters out there to do whatever they want.

Because there should be no death penalty for poor dress sense, either for women, or for men.