Does your Church use Blue for Advent?

[lak611]

Today our priest wore blue. What did yours wear?

He wore a white chasuble with a blue column. But it was for the Immaculate Conception Mass. It was 90% white, with just blue trim.

 

[palmas85]

Thanks for getting back so quickly, and for finding the citation from canon law. My concern isn’t that I would have incurred sin if I’d attended Mass yesterday rather than today – my concern is that yesterday was the Feast of St. Ambrose and that, if you’re going to celebrate Mass on Dec 7, you ought to utilize the readings and collect for that day.

 For example, suppose I went to Mass at 7pm tonight (as I did) and the particular parish wanted to celebrate the vigil of the Feast of St. Juan Diego?  Would I have missed my chance to participate in the Mass of the Holy Day?

 It seems to me that the PURPOSE of making certain days obligatory is to gather us together at one time for one focus.  I'm a member of our parish Christian Worship Commission, so I can stimulate discussion about when to assign Mass times.  If you had some influence in your parish, what would you want to do?

What in the world is a Parish Christian Worship Commission? I have never heard of such a thing. Please excuse my ignorance.

 

[tee_eff_em]

Disclaimer: Not A Canon Lawyer

Thanks for getting back so quickly, and for finding the citation from canon law. My concern isn’t that I would have incurred sin if I’d attended Mass yesterday rather than today – my concern is that yesterday was the Feast of St. Ambrose and that, if you’re going to celebrate Mass on Dec 7, you ought to utilize the readings and collect for that day.

While most previous-evening-for-the-next-day Masses are in anticipation (ie, utilizing the Mass for the following day), there are still a few days in the calendar that have proper vigil Masses.

 For example, suppose I went to Mass at 7pm tonight (as I did) and the particular parish wanted to celebrate the vigil of the Feast of St. Juan Diego?  Would I have missed my chance to participate in the Mass of the Holy Day?

(Aside: I’m not sure an anticipated Mass may be celebrated for St Juan Diego, except in those places that may celebrate with a greater solemnity than the optional memorial enrolled on the general calendar, eg in a place specifically under his patronage)

While in your hypothetical case, you might have missed participating in the Mass of the holyday, I believe you would still have fulfilled your obligation associated with the holyday to assist at Mass. A plain reading of the canon says Mass celebrated on the holyday or the evening of the previous day – It says nothing about the readings, collects, choice of Mass parts, et cetera.

In fact, I’m not sure that in years such as this one, with Christmas falling on a Monday, you cannot satisfy both the obligation for the Fourth Sunday of Advent and Christmas by attending a Mass between 4pm and 11:59pm on 24-Dec?

tee
Secondary Disclaimer: Still Not A Canon Lawyer

 

[Paul_from_MA]

What in the world is a Parish Christian Worship Commission? I have never heard of such a thing. Please excuse my ignorance.

Worship Commissions are common, even mandatory in our archdiocese. I don’t have the link to an explanation for commmissions in the RCAB but here’s a similar one:

dioceseoflansing.org/pastoralplanning/parish_worship_comm1.pdf

 

[Paul_from_MA]

Disclaimer: Not A Canon Lawyer

In fact, I’m not sure that in years such as this one, with Christmas falling on a Monday, you cannot satisfy both the obligation for the Fourth Sunday of Advent and Christmas by attending a Mass between 4pm and 11:59pm on 24-Dec?

tee
Secondary Disclaimer: Still Not A Canon Lawyer

It amuses me that you would consider such an option, Canon law expert or no.

 

[netmilsmom]

Today our priest wore blue. What did yours wear?

White with blue, just like yours!

 

[Kevin42]

Today our priest had on something that was both blue and violet. It had a stripe down the middle of violet, and violet bordering, all on a field of dark blue. (Do yall think this is ok? All of the banners and everything else in our Church is violet…but this chasuble had both violet and blue…)

I must also say that our Parish used to have such nice looking vestments, but ever I think we got some new ones a few months ago, and they are plain and ugly.

 

[Jennifer_G]

Ours switched to a really dark royal blue color this Sunday from the medium blue last Sunday.

 

[Digitonomy]

as long as the vestments are clearly base color white with blue trim; 60-white to 40-blue, for example, would be pushing it.MT

I chuckled when I read your post, trying to imagine such a garment. Then I attended mass Friday night, and the priest was wearing vestments with colors very close to the proportions you mentioned.

 

[Phlorentine]

Blue vestments on Marian feast days and most Saturday morning Masses is quite common through much of the Americas. The further south you go, the more common. With the large migration of Catholics from southern North American, Central and South America to the USA, we are seeing it more and more in the USA.

And while it’s certainly not allowed via the rubrics, I like seeing it. The level of respect paid the BVM by our Latin American brothers and sisters – particularly right now during the Guadalupana celebrations is stunning here locally. It’s far more than I am used to seeing.

 

[CALDE]

Disclaimer: Not A Canon Lawyer

While most previous-evening-for-the-next-day Masses are in anticipation (ie, utilizing the Mass for the following day), there are still a few days in the calendar that have proper vigil Masses.

(Aside: I’m not sure an anticipated Mass may be celebrated for St Juan Diego, except in those places that may celebrate with a greater solemnity than the optional memorial enrolled on the general calendar, eg in a place specifically under his patronage)

While in your hypothetical case, you might have missed participating in the Mass of the holyday, I believe you would still have fulfilled your obligation associated with the holyday to assist at Mass. A plain reading of the canon says Mass celebrated on the holyday or the evening of the previous day – It says nothing about the readings, collects, choice of Mass parts, et cetera.

In fact, I’m not sure that in years such as this one, with Christmas falling on a Monday, you cannot satisfy both the obligation for the Fourth Sunday of Advent and Christmas by attending a Mass between 4pm and 11:59pm on 24-Dec?

tee
Secondary Disclaimer: Still Not A Canon Lawyer

After 6 pm starts the next day.
After 6pm there are vigils which donot “count” for the next days Mass.
After 6pm , if the readings, prayers ect. are from the next day, then it "counts for the next day.

 

[tee_eff_em]

After 6 pm starts the next day.
After 6pm there are vigils which donot “count” for the next days Mass.
After 6pm , if the readings, prayers ect. are from the next day, then it "counts for the next day.

That is rather terse and I do not understand your point – Can you elaborate?

tee

 

[CALDE]

After 6 pm starts the next day.
After 6pm there are vigils which donot “count” for the next days Mass.
After 6pm , if the readings, prayers ect. are from the next day, then it "counts for the next day.

That is rather terse and I do not understand your point – Can you elaborate?

tee

In the Jewish liturgy as well as in the Catholic liturgy the next day begins at 6 pm.

We remember when the Jews asked for Jesus’ body to be taken down fron the cross because it was close to 6pm and the passover was to begin.
Jesus was in the tomb 3 days; friday til 6pm , all day saturday and sunday morning. Not full 24 hour days.

 

[LCMS_No_More]

In fact, I’m not sure that in years such as this one, with Christmas falling on a Monday, you cannot satisfy both the obligation for the Fourth Sunday of Advent and Christmas by attending a Mass between 4pm and 11:59pm on 24-Dec?

That would be a no. You must go to a Saturday evening or Sunday morning Mass to fullful your Sunday obligation. As my priest says, “no double dipping.” One can’t go to the Sunday evening Mass expecting to fulfill two obligations as Sunday Evening is the Christmas Eve Vigil Mass (of course, there will also be Mass at Midnight at my parish ).

So, to recap:

Sunday obligation: Saturday evening or Sunday morning.
Christmas obligation: Sunday evening or Monday

 

[JMJDevotee]

So what do you do when you have addressed your concerns with your priest, who in a kind way stated that the advent wreath tradition came from another denomination and we should be using blue candles. He is useing a cornflower blue(closest name in the crayola box to match the candles ) but is wearing violet-blue vestments, and using violet linens for the rest. None of it matches. It seems akward

Anyway, how do you address this without causing a huge probelm?? And I am not the only parishoner to have mentioned it.

Pax Vobiscum

 

[JMJDevotee]

That would be a no. You must go to a Saturday evening or Sunday morning Mass to fullful your Sunday obligation. As my priest says, “no double dipping.” One can’t go to the Sunday evening Mass expecting to fulfill two obligations as Sunday Evening is the Christmas Eve Vigil Mass (of course, there will also be Mass at Midnight at my parish ).

So, to recap:

Sunday obligation: Saturday evening or Sunday morning.
Christmas obligation: Sunday evening or Monday

And it is driving my non-Catholic family crazy. :bigyikes: My parents are coming into town and they have planned our family get together for Sunday. But they had to work around our Holy obligations. We have 4th Sunday in Advent Mass at 8:30 am, then Christmas eve Vigil at 7pm (kids are playing in belle choir), then Christmas day Mass at 11 on Monday. And then to tell them that we could not eat past 5:30 on Sunday to meet the fasting requirement was hysterical They just don’t get it. Oh well, we will be able to say and offer prayers for them at Mass

Pax Vobiscum

 

[tee_eff_em]

After 6 pm starts the next day.
After 6pm there are vigils which donot “count” for the next days Mass.
After 6pm , if the readings, prayers ect. are from the next day, then it "counts for the next day.

In the Jewish liturgy as well as in the Catholic liturgy the next day begins at 6 pm.

That’s a pretty common perception, but I believe it is a misunderstanding.

Canon Law is pretty clear that the day is 24 hours from midnight to midnight unless explicitly stated otherwise.

It is also clear when it states that the obligation to assist at Mass is fulfilled by attending on the holyday itself or the evening of the previous day. (If the day began at 6pm, the evening of the previous day would need be 2 days before the date, no?) The canon does not distinguish among Masses which may be celebrated to fulfill an obligation.

However:

The celebrations of solemn feasts do begin on the evening of the previous day. The selection of prayers and readings indicates what feast is being celebrated. But if there’s no obligation to assist at Mass, such a vigil or anticipated celebration cannot be said to “count” for anything.

tee

tee

 

[tee_eff_em]

That would be a no. You must go to a Saturday evening or Sunday morning Mass to fullful your Sunday obligation. As my priest says, “no double dipping.” One can’t go to the Sunday evening Mass expecting to fulfill two obligations as Sunday Evening is the Christmas Eve Vigil Mass (of course, there will also be Mass at Midnight at my parish ).

So, to recap:

Sunday obligation: Saturday evening or Sunday morning.
Christmas obligation: Sunday evening or Monday

I am quite sure one can fulfill the 4th-Sunday-of-Advent obligation by assisting at the Vigil Mass of Christmas. But I am not sure you can’t fulfill Christmas obligation at the same time.

I spoke with a canon lawyer of my acquaintance yesterday but only very briefly, so I’m not sure the question was clear. But if it was, his answer was "you can fulfill both obligations, but liturgists don’t like to talk about it "

**REPEAT: **I’m not sure he properly understood the question. Do Not Take This Internet Forum Posting From A Mostly Anonymous Person You Hardly Know Relating Second Hand Information As License To Attend Only A Christmas Vigil Mass For Two Obligations, Except At The Peril Of Your Immortal Soul. (So there )

tee

 

[LCMS_No_More]

I am quite sure one can fulfill the 4th-Sunday-of-Advent obligation by assisting at the Vigil Mass of Christmas. But I am not sure you can’t fulfill Christmas obligation at the same time.

I spoke with a canon lawyer of my acquaintance yesterday but only very briefly, so I’m not sure the question was clear. But if it was, his answer was "you can fulfill both obligations, but liturgists don’t like to talk about it "

**REPEAT: **I’m not sure he properly understood the question. Do Not Take This Internet Forum Posting From A Mostly Anonymous Person You Hardly Know Relating Second Hand Information As License To Attend Only A Christmas Vigil Mass For Two Obligations, Except At The Peril Of Your Immortal Soul. (So there )

tee

From what I was told (three times on Saturday, by the way, as I attended three functions on that day), there’s no double dipping. Definitely, the Sunday evening Mass on December 24th can NOT fulfill both obligations.

My information comes directly from my rather orthodox pastor. When in doubt, always ask your own priest (and if you’re not sure, get a second opinion from another priest, preferably an orthodox one!).

 

[SMHW]

I spoke with a canon lawyer of my acquaintance yesterday but only very briefly, so I’m not sure the question was clear. But if it was, his answer was "you can fulfill both obligations, but liturgists don’t like to talk about it "

I’m no canon lawyer but that sounds possible to me.

But if so, I’d say this is the liturgical equivalent of getting out of a moral responsibility due to an unintended legal loophole. Perhaps you can’t be ‘prosecuted’ for getting two for the price of one but that doesn’t completely erase the more nebulous moral requirement to attend two Masses.