Doesnt it say in the bible that women cant speak

[WatchingMedia]

This means that the men have to step up to the plate, and VOLUNTEER to do more in their Church.
Where are they?

 

[Melchior_1]

Even now, as bad as the culture is, only because of the woman vote do the most anti-Catholic, anti-family, anti-life politicians get into office. I’d take away the vote from women in a heartbeat.

I’ll see your “woman’s votes cause this” and raise you a Catholic Women’s League as a counterpoint.

Rory, you tell your wife this? Because if she’s a Proverbs 31 woman she likely wouldn’t stand for the whole “women shouldn’t vote” thing.

 

[jmcrae]

This means that the men have to step up to the plate, and VOLUNTEER to do more in their Church.
Where are they?

Working to feed and clothe their families.

It’s women who volunteer, because it’s women who have the spare time to do so. This isn’t new - St. Jerome’s staff, when he was translating the Bible, was made up entirely of women, because he couldn’t afford to pay very much, and the men couldn’t afford the cut in pay.

 

[jmcrae]

I’ll see your “woman’s votes cause this” and raise you a Catholic Women’s League as a counterpoint.

 

[Flame4]

St. Paul was referring to women who were interrupting the Liturgy to ask questions in the middle of it. He told them, “Save your questions for later, and ask your husbands when you get home.”

Keep in mind, this was the first time in recorded history that women had ever been permitted to attend public liturgies of worship where they could see what was going on - up to that time, they had been restricted to the back or to a separate area, away from where the action was taking place. Also, women had not been taught anything about these things, since it was never expected that they would ever need to know about them. So, the women had a lot of questions about what was going on.

Today, we occasionally see small children getting up in the middle of Mass, pointing at things, and shouting out their questions, but even this is quite rare - and it’s still not permitted.

I think you hit the nail right on the head.

 

[RoryMcKenzie56]

And I have no need of any religion that denies women the personhood given to her by God in Genesis 1:27. Women, too, are made in the image and likeness of God. Jesus also died for women - not only for the male of the species. It is Mary - a woman - who is the Crown of Creation. There is nothing Biblical or Christian about the attitude that women are defective persons, or lacking in human intelligence.

Hi jmmcrae.

I deny ontological inequality as does the Church. This has nothing to do with personal or intellectual defects.

But thanks for clarifying your point of view. The Catholic Church has been a non-stop moral disappointment to you from the times of the Apostles until 2010 and you identify yourself as Catholic? The Catholic Church according to you has never been right about this very important teaching. And you choose to be affiliated with this organization. Maybe I should go join the National Organization of Women?

 

[WatchingMedia]

Working to feed and clothe their families.

It’s women who volunteer, because it’s women who have the spare time to do so. This isn’t new - St. Jerome’s staff, when he was translating the Bible, was made up entirely of women, because he couldn’t afford to pay very much, and the men couldn’t afford the cut in pay.

For most, that has nothing to do with volunteering at Mass on Saturday evening or Sunday morning.
No cop outs.

 

[jmcrae]

Hi jmmcrae.

I deny ontological inequality as does the Church. This has nothing to do with personal or intellectual defects.

But thanks for clarifying your point of view. The Catholic Church has been a non-stop moral disappointment to you from the times of the Apostles until 2010 and you identify yourself as Catholic?

Not at all. Despite my being female, I have the capacity to discern between the actual teachings of the Church (equality of man and woman), and those who misinterpret it to mean things that St. Paul never actually said, and that no Pope ever intended.

 

[WatchingMedia]

In US society today, there are just as many women working to feed their families as men.

Men need to take more responsibility, even with their children from unwed Mothers.

There is no excuse for the average man not to volunteer to serve at Mass in someway on weekends.
If called, being a Deacon is extremely helpful.

 

[RoryMcKenzie56]

I’ll see your “woman’s votes cause this” and raise you a Catholic Women’s League as a counterpoint.

Rory, you tell your wife this? Because if she’s a Proverbs 31 woman she likely wouldn’t stand for the whole “women shouldn’t vote” thing.

Hey Melchior.

I let my wife vote for me. Heh. What’s the Catholic Woman’s League?

I’d let my wife be queen! Its other people’s wives that are the problem, you see? Heh.

I always hear the rhetoric from the pundits about how Obama and the Clintons do so much better with the female vote than did Bush and Dole, or Bush and McCain. That means that guys tend to be less liberal. I am confident that our society is worse for having universal suffrage. But I can’t prove it and I encourage Catholic ladies to vote their consciences today knowing they are well-formed. But I would discourage Catholic girls from being lectors if it was my place to do so.

My son got married Saturday. Ordinary Mass with the bride’s sister as a lector. I didn’t object. Not my place. I suppose it was material cooperation with disobedience to St. Paul but my objection wasn’t going to get her removed so I encouraged her and coached her a little bit on how to speak into the microphone so as to be heard. She was only 12 or so and had never done so. Anyway, if I thought my intevention would get a guy up there I would have made it.

Rory

 

[jmcrae]

Hey Melchior.

I let my wife vote for me. Heh. What’s the Catholic Woman’s League?

It’s an organization of Catholic women who work with the Canadian government to promote life issues. We are the reason that Harper is not allowing any abortion funding to go to the Third World.

 

[RoryMcKenzie56]

Not at all. Despite my being female, I have the capacity to discern between the actual teachings of the Church (equality of man and woman), and those who misinterpret it to mean things that St. Paul never actually said, and that no Pope ever intended.

Hi jmcrae. I made a mistake in reading your post. I thought you said “priesthood” instead of “personhood”. Sorry about that. I thought you were saying the priesthood was given in Genesis to Eve. That would have been contrary to church teaching. I trust you see why I said what I did aboutm your disagreement with the Church. I formally retract that portion of what I said and beg your pardon for that error on my part.

But neither St. Paul nor I nor the Church are denying personhood to women if we think or ever have thought women shouldn’t be lectoring. I don’t think you are a defective person and there is no need for playing the martyr (“Despite my being female…”) with me.

Rory

 

[RoryMcKenzie56]

It’s an organization of Catholic women who work with the Canadian government to promote life issues. We are the reason that Harper is not allowing any abortion funding to go to the Third World.

Good work jmcrae. Thanks and God bless you.

Rory

 

[ProVobis]

We are not speaking here about doctrine, revelation, or the sacred Deposit of Faith.

Doesn’t the Deposit of Faith include all of Christ’s revelations? I have read somewhere that the Deposit of Faith ended with the death of the last Apostle but I could be wrong.

 

[nickybr38]

Originally Posted by RoryMcKenzie56 View Post
Even now, as bad as the culture is, only because of the woman vote do the most anti-Catholic, anti-family, anti-life politicians get into office. I’d take away the vote from women in a heartbeat.

---

I agree with you actually. ): I know this isn’t always true but women tend to make decisions based on emotion whereas men are more likely to be logical. I know this isn’t an acceptable idea but I think we can see it anytime we look at or speak with men and women. It doesn’t make women lesser or men greater… it’s just a difference.

 

[jmcrae]

Hi jmcrae. I made a mistake in reading your post. I thought you said “priesthood” instead of “personhood”. Sorry about that. I thought you were saying the priesthood was given in Genesis to Eve. That would have been contrary to church teaching. I trust you see why I said what I did aboutm your disagreement with the Church. I formally retract that portion of what I said and beg your pardon for that error on my part.

Thank you, I accept your apology.

But neither St. Paul nor I nor the Church are denying personhood to women if we think or ever have thought women shouldn’t be lectoring.

St. Paul was not talking about women “lectoring” - women of his time could not even read or write - education was forbidden to women right up to the late 1800s - so they were certainly not proclaiming the readings. He was talking about women who were asking questions about the Liturgy out loud, right in the middle of it.

The discipline of what lay people can do is up to the Pope. Women are lay people, so if the Pope says a lay person can do this or that, then that means both women, and lay men, can do that thing. If it is something for an ordained person to do, then this means that only a male who has been ordained may do it.

A man can be ordained to become a Lector, in the process of his ordination to the priesthood. In the absence of an ordained Lector, a lay person (meaning, either a lay male, or a female) can proclaim the reading. The lay person is not a “Lector” though - he or she is just a reader.

 

[Marc_Anthony]

You’d take away female suffrage?

I’m sorry, you can all rationalize it any way you want to, but that still strikes me as very, very sexist.

 

[ProVobis]

Working to feed and clothe their families.

It’s women who volunteer, because it’s women who have the spare time to do so. This isn’t new - St. Jerome’s staff, when he was translating the Bible, was made up entirely of women, because he couldn’t afford to pay very much, and the men couldn’t afford the cut in pay.

There were other reasons why there happens to be increased feminization of the Church. Have you read “The Church Impotent, The Feminization of Christianity” by Leon J. Podles?

 

[WatchingMedia]

I don’t hear anyone addressing the laziness on the part of (most but not all) males for not volunteering for duties at MASS on Saturday evening or Sunday morning.

Examination of Conscience
Laziness a Capitol Sin (SLOTH) ?
Are men leading their families to heaven ?

 

[jmcrae]

There were other reasons why there happens to be increased feminization of the Church. Have you read “The Church Impotent, The Feminization of Christianity” by Leon J. Podles?

No. Does it address the “feminization” of St. Jerome’s Scriptorium? As long as the work is being done by competent persons, does it matter whether they are male or female?