Doesn't this statement prove there's a God?

[ANewWorld]

I browsed back through the whole thread, I also realized I read names out of some quoted texts and threads and mistakenly thought ReachingFaith started this thread, not AnthonySorenson.

ReachingFaith, I understand you and Strawberry’s line of thinking. It is not unreasonable for rational creatures created by God to question contradictions. It is inexcusable for members such as JDaniel to lob accusations of dishonesty your way, never mind the fact he is asking you to reveal personal information about you and the church you attend.

AnthonySorenson, I am having trouble understanding why you’d be closed to discussion with other forum members who are being forthright and open in their discourse?

 

[ReachingFaith]

I browsed back through the whole thread, I also realized I read names out of some quoted texts and threads and mistakenly thought ReachingFaith started this thread, not AnthonySorenson.

ReachingFaith, I understand you and Strawberry’s line of thinking. It is not unreasonable for rational creatures created by God to question contradictions. It is inexcusable for members such as JDaniel to lob accusations of dishonesty your way, never mind the fact he is asking you to reveal personal information about you and the church you attend.

AnthonySorenson, I am having trouble understanding why you’d be closed to discussion with other forum members who are being forthright and open in their discourse?

thank you!

 

[JDaniel]

ReachingFaith, I understand you and Strawberry’s line of thinking. It is not unreasonable for rational creatures created by God to question contradictions. It is inexcusable for members such as JDaniel to lob accusations of dishonesty your way, never mind the fact he is asking you to reveal personal information about you and the church you attend.

First of all, let me suggest that you are in no position to judge what is or is not “excusable.” You are new to these fora and you appear to be non-Catholic. Do you think that non-Catholics and non-Christians have never graced these fora? Do you think that non-Catholics/non-Christians have never come here under false pretenses and identities? Do you really think that determining the veracity of someone claiming to be Catholic is imprudent? Do you think that such posters should be simply tolerated and that we Catholics should just roll over to them? I’m sure you’d like that. But, I’ll bet that ReachingFaith, if she thinks about it and if she’s Catholic, wouldn’t.

ReachingFaith is still not out of the dog house, as far as I’m concerned. When someone maintains a belligerent position to excess, they have too often proved themselves to be “anti-Catholic.” Although I am feeling a little better about her since her last post to me.

Furthermore, I attend a church called, “Resurrection.” How many “Resurrection” Catholic churches do you think there are in the world? Your violation of privacy contention is like saying that if I tell you that my dog’s name is “Spot,” you can somehow track me down from that pertinent bit of private information. How absurd! You are exposing your thinking prowess to all of us.

I have every right to know if she is what she claims she is.

God bless,
jd

 

[interestedman]

I was having this discussion with another person and they were having trouble seeing my point.

In the bible there are various verses forbidding fornication…but (according to atheists if there really is no God )…why does going against this law cause so much destruction in abortions, unadopted children and unwanted children.

Am I making sense?

lol, no, you aren’t making sense. Just because something that is said in the Bible is true doesn’t mean that the Christian God exists.

 

[JDaniel]

I must be really thick, because that makes not a lot of sense to me. I’m sorry, I know I must be annoying you, too. And let me assure you once and for all, I am neither male nor atheist…you need not ferret.

Fantastic! Your questions are not annoying.

God is supposed to be all-good. I know that. I believe it, too, on my better days. And I know that we are supposed to believe that God has a reason for everything He does. I guess my biggest problem is trust. I find it hard for myself to submit so much of myself to things I can never know totally for sure, but must just believe on faith and hope. Again, this is probably so garbled. I know what I mean, but it’s hard to get across.
I am very tormented by the idea that there are things in my faith that are so hard to explain, maybe I begin to shift towards the people who tell me there is nothing true about what I believe. I’m scared, frankly.

You are not alone. Many are walking the same path. Many have already walked the same path. I did. I do not expect to convince you about the Church. I promise not to lie to you. That I can do.

I know what you mean and I have some idea what you are going through. It would be nice if God would simply show Himself. There are lots of Scripturally-based reasons for why He doesn’t. I happen to believe that if He did show Himself constantly and continuously, as everyone in the world wants, we would become nothing more than automatons. I think it is much more human to be given a choice and having to “choose.”

I’m scared because if they’re right, where does that leave me? And I want to believe, but that doubt is so violent.

Yes it is. I will admit that I have no balm or elixir for it. All one can do is persevere. If you can get hold of a copy of The Summa Theologica Part I, and start reading the first 150 pages, you will at least discover more questions. Many agnostic-atheists are here precisely because they have questions.

I believe in God. I know He is a part of my life, but how much, and in what ways, and in all the other ways people try to convince me to change, I’m NOT knowing. Does that help to explain any? If I seem rude, I am worried. I want logical proofs, to prove to myself, for myself, that this is a true faith, and one that will enable me to serve the God I must.

The following is tough reading, but I think you are up to the task: Here

It’s not just the atheists who tell me I’m wrong. My lovely “christian” friend (yes, there is a difference!) tells me that I am far too harsh in the Catholic faith. That is, I do not need confession, nor penance, or anything but a personal belief in God to get to heaven. She says Jesus died for me, and that I was saved when He did that.

Remember, you are part of the oldest Christian church in the world. You are part of the Church that Christ Himself established before His scourging and crucifixion. Your friend is Protestant - or at least heavily influenced by Protestantism. Often when we encounter a convert we discover what made them convert. Sometimes Protestants convert to Catholicism because they’ve made a trip to the Holy Land. While there, they are struck by the fact that every one of the first churches built by Christians has, in its center or at its front, an altar. Most Protestant churches do not. Sometimes people get this. Others do not.

So I have come to a point in my life, where I must see for myself. The word of those who have brought me into this church is no longer enough. Do you follow me? I am not a rebel, or someone who thinks she knows it all, I am just trying to satisfy myself. It hurts and discourages me when I do not get the answer I need/am looking for. I ask for your prayers now, all of you who read this. Pray that I can find what I am looking for, if you would.

You have asked for my prayers and so you shall receive them. Persevere.

I look forward to more tough questions from you.

God bless,
jd

 

[ANewWorld]

First of all, let me suggest that you are in no position to judge what is or is not “excusable.” You are new to these fora and you appear to be non-Catholic. Do you think that non-Catholics and non-Christians have never graced these fora? Do you think that non-Catholics/non-Christians have never come here under false pretenses and identities? Do you really think that determining the veracity of someone claiming to be Catholic is imprudent? Do you think that such posters should be simply tolerated and that we Catholics should just roll over to them? I’m sure you’d like that. But, I’ll bet that ReachingFaith, if she thinks about it and if she’s Catholic, wouldn’t.

ReachingFaith is still not out of the dog house, as far as I’m concerned. When someone maintains a belligerent position to excess, they have too often proved themselves to be “anti-Catholic.” Although I am feeling a little better about her since her last post to me.

Furthermore, I attend a church called, “Resurrection.” How many “Resurrection” Catholic churches do you think there are in the world? Your violation of privacy contention is like saying that if I tell you that my dog’s name is “Spot,” you can somehow track me down from that pertinent bit of private information. How absurd! You are exposing your thinking prowess to all of us.

I have every right to know if she is what she claims she is.

God bless,
jd

JDaniel, we have gotten off to a bad start and I will apologize again to you in good faith based on my intentions to be open and honest in discussion. Of course, I do not have any authority whatsoever to say what is or is not excusable. CAF does and the reason I said this is their own forum rules: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=177274

As for the absurdity of my point, as you said to me, “an analogy is no evidence at all,” so the dog named Spot is irrelevant. Because of the fact that ReachingFaith could potentially divulge her location in her profile, a name of a church and a pastor would be a huge step in finding personally identifiable information. I am saying this in interest of all our rights to privacy, yours included.

 

[JDaniel]

JDaniel, we have gotten off to a bad start and I will apologize again to you in good faith based on my intentions to be open and honest in discussion. Of course, I do not have any authority whatsoever to say what is or is not excusable. CAF does and the reason I said this is their own forum rules: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=177274

As for the absurdity of my point, as you said to me, “an analogy is no evidence at all,” so the dog named Spot is irrelevant. Because of the fact that ReachingFaith could potentially divulge her location in her profile, a name of a church and a pastor would be a huge step in finding personally identifiable information. I am saying this in interest of all our rights to privacy, yours included.

ANW:

I gather that she has more sense than that. I didn’t want to fine-tune it to a level that could offend her.

Oh, and we can get a new start.

God bless,
jd

 

[ReachingFaith]

JDaniel, we have gotten off to a bad start and I will apologize again to you in good faith based on my intentions to be open and honest in discussion. Of course, I do not have any authority whatsoever to say what is or is not excusable. CAF does and the reason I said this is their own forum rules: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=177274

As for the absurdity of my point, as you said to me, “an analogy is no evidence at all,” so the dog named Spot is irrelevant. Because of the fact that ReachingFaith could potentially divulge her location in her profile, a name of a church and a pastor would be a huge step in finding personally identifiable information. I am saying this in interest of all our rights to privacy, yours included.

I don’t give out information about myself, i.e., location. After all, how do I know JDaniel is who he says he is?
Also, I didn’t like the sudden barrage of questions. I was not belligerent, to my knowledge, I was simply put off by the attitude of certain posters who would not answer any question asked.

Out of curiousity, why did people think I was a male?

 

[ThinkingSapien]

Out of curiousity, why did people think I was a male?

Probably from the lack of personal gender neutral pronouns in the English language along with a long standing cultural habit to use the masculine pronoun (in general) when talking about anonymous people.

 

[ANewWorld]

Probably from the lack of personal gender neutral pronouns in the English language along with a long standing cultural habit to use the masculine pronoun (in general) when talking about anonymous people.

Oh, and the fact I thought I was reading AnthonySorenson’s post in the first reponse. Never met a female Anthony.

 

[Faithdancer]

I don’t give out information about myself, i.e., location. After all, how do I know JDaniel is who he says he is?
Also, I didn’t like the sudden barrage of questions. I was not belligerent, to my knowledge, I was simply put off by the attitude of certain posters who would not answer any question asked.

Out of curiousity, why did people think I was a male?

I don’t know why males on here- like me- tend to assume that everyone else here is a male. It’s awfully presumptuous of us, and you have my apology, if any offense was caused. I am certainly glad you are here!

 

[AnthonySorensen]

I browsed back through the whole thread, I also realized I read names out of some quoted texts and threads and mistakenly thought ReachingFaith started this thread, not AnthonySorenson.

ReachingFaith, I understand you and Strawberry’s line of thinking. It is not unreasonable for rational creatures created by God to question contradictions. It is inexcusable for members such as JDaniel to lob accusations of dishonesty your way, never mind the fact he is asking you to reveal personal information about you and the church you attend.

AnthonySorenson, I am having trouble understanding why you’d be closed to discussion with other forum members who are being forthright and open in their discourse?

I answered both of them.

 

[ReachingFaith]

I answered both of them.

Peace be with you, I guess, then. You have done nothing–that is the problem. I give up with you, sir.

 

[ANewWorld]

ReachingFaith,

I myself am in much the same position as you. I have tried hard to understand all sides of the argument, because there’s much to be said for the fact that blind faith proves nothing. In this view, all religion is on the same playing field and can rightly be dismissed as such. After all, why is your blind faith or my blind faith any more valid than the blind faith of a radical Muslim? It isn’t, and that’s why we must seek proof; the Church even directly opposes Fideism, faith without reason.

That said, more to the topic of this thread, I don’t think the OP goes toward proving God. My take is that one of the favorite logical arguments against God is the that God must’ve had a cause and something that created this complex universe must necessarily be more complex, thus God must also be explained. This on the surface seems quite rational, however, what is the naturalistic explanation for the Universe?

Physicists have recently become quite certain that time is going to end. The rate of expansion of the Universe is observed to be increasing, ultimately leading to heat death. There is no evidence that it will retract in a big crunch and possibly be cyclical, which could account for random variations with each expansion and contraction. If, in fact the Universe and time is coming to an end, something outside the Universe (i.e. space and time) had to have created it. This much seems to be consensus no matter which version of the Big Bang one backs. Recently, the m-brane hypothesis and multiverse hypothesis have entered the picture. Now, science has yet to find sufficient evidence for these outside the mathematical theory, but I would suggest the exact same argument applies here. They’re defining something more complex, so where did these things come from? In this way, you could get into an infinite regress and still be left with no explanation for which there is observable evidence. As an aside, it was a Catholic physicist who first conjectured that the Universe wasn’t static, in opposition to Einstein! en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges_Lema%C3%AEtre

 

[Mahsiah_Waites]

Everything around us prove that there is a God

 

[ReapReason]

Everything around us prove that there is a God

Such as?

Does my bogey prove there is a God?

 

[JDaniel]

ReachingFaith,

I myself am in much the same position as you. I have tried hard to understand all sides of the argument, because there’s much to be said for the fact that blind faith proves nothing. In this view, all religion is on the same playing field and can rightly be dismissed as such. After all, why is your blind faith or my blind faith any more valid than the blind faith of a radical Muslim? It isn’t, and that’s why we must seek proof; the Church even directly opposes Fideism, faith without reason.

That said, more to the topic of this thread, I don’t think the OP goes toward proving God. My take is that one of the favorite logical arguments against God is the that God must’ve had a cause and something that created this complex universe must necessarily be more complex, thus God must also be explained. This on the surface seems quite rational, however, what is the naturalistic explanation for the Universe?

Physicists have recently become quite certain that time is going to end. The rate of expansion of the Universe is observed to be increasing, ultimately leading to heat death. There is no evidence that it will retract in a big crunch and possibly be cyclical, which could account for random variations with each expansion and contraction. If, in fact the Universe and time is coming to an end, something outside the Universe (i.e. space and time) had to have created it. This much seems to be consensus no matter which version of the Big Bang one backs. Recently, the m-brane hypothesis and multiverse hypothesis have entered the picture. Now, science has yet to find sufficient evidence for these outside the mathematical theory, but I would suggest the exact same argument applies here. They’re defining something more complex, so where did these things come from? In this way, you could get into an infinite regress and still be left with no explanation for which there is observable evidence. As an aside, it was a Catholic physicist who first conjectured that the Universe wasn’t static, in opposition to Einstein! en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges_Lema%C3%AEtre

ANW:

An excellent post!

God bless,
jd