Doesn't your relationship with God matter more than your denomination?

[Wannano]

I said wrong.

But anyhow, I could equally ask how it could be wrong for a Protestant to become Catholic if you recognize Catholics as Christians.

Hi Peter, I never meant that you used the word sinful, I was responding to the op.

Have I let on that I would feel it is wrong for a Protestant to become a Catholiic? I don’t think I have said that, in fact, two of my fellow church members married into the Catholic faith and I don’t remember a big issue about that at all. I think I may live in a community where there is unusual cooperation and love between the C and P’s.

 

[MichaelP3]

Yes it objectively would be a sin. Being in full communion with the Church and then willfully seeking to leave that full communion etc. Yes that would be sinful.

This is a problem for me! My wife (although I would love to take credit, I really can’t) exited the Catholic Church some time after we got married. She is the most pure person I can ever hope to be. I can go deeper but you get my point hopefully.

 

[susanlo]

I said wrong.

But anyhow, I could equally ask how it could be wrong for a Protestant to become Catholic if you recognize Catholics as Christians.

I was told by Catholic friends that if someone is a member of the Catholic Church and then chooses to stop attending the Catholic Church and join another Christian church, that this would be a mortal sin and there would be no chance for salvation. Those who have never been a member of the Catholic Church could achieve salvation as a separated brethren because of ‘invincible ignorance.’ Is this not correct teaching anymore?

 

[fbl9]

I was told by Catholic friends that if someone is a member of the Catholic Church and then chooses to stop attending the Catholic Church and join another Christian church, that this would be a mortal sin and there would be no chance for salvation. Those who have never been a member of the Catholic Church could achieve salvation as a separated brethren because of 'invincible ignorance.’ Is this not correct teaching anymore?

There is one thing we as people can not know of the other is what the other knows.
For example when i left the Church i did not know what i was leaving. However now that i am back in the fold i know there would be no hope of my salvation, if i left, for i have rejected those that He has sent.

 

[Peter_J]

Here again is an example of not understanding Protestant worship. We believe Christ is fully and totally present; that he is the High Priest of The Lord’s Supper; that he offers Himself to us totally and competely in Communion. We do not believe in the real presence in the same way as the Catholic Church but it is very real, meaningful and the culmination of our worship in which we offer ourselves to Christ and receive Him in return.

"For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them.”

Well said.

And I would add, the fact that we believe in the Real Presence doesn’t change the fact that we believe “For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them.”

 

[Peter_J]

I was told by Catholic friends that if someone is a member of the Catholic Church and then chooses to stop attending the Catholic Church and join another Christian church, that this would be a mortal sin and there would be no chance for salvation.

No bunch of apples is completely homogenous. A nice thing about the Internet is that it lets you hear from a wide assortment of people, Catholic or Otherwise … but that can be dangerous too.

 

[Bookcat]

This is a problem

I am not the judge of her subjective culpability -but what I noted is simply true - even if yes it is a problem.

And a problem it should be for all sin is problematic - even where a person does not realize their sin. And it remains harmful to the person and to the Church etc.

My hope and prayer is that those who have left the full communion with the Church may find that they miss all that Jesus has given there - all that he wills for them there and come back to that full communion. Bringing their personal gifts to the benefit of the Church and for the work of spreading the Gospel.

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

This seems to introduce a Church/God dichotomy which takes things just a little to far. It’s like suggesting to a person in the first century that they can love God and not be part of the communion of the Apostles, that group of intimate friends of Christ whom Christ appointed as leaders over the church. It’s a message of individualism which Christ never revealed and spoke out against. Does the family God cease to be important after the death of the last apostle or does it’s importance continue to persevere throughout every century?

 

[susanlo]

No bunch of apples is completely homogenous. A nice thing about the Internet is that it lets you hear from a wide assortment of people, Catholic or Otherwise … but that can be dangerous too.

What are apples an analogy for?
Are you saying that whether it is sinful for someone to leave the Catholic Church for another Christian church depends on the specific person and the specific reasons for leaving? Are there circumstances when leaving is ok?

 

[Peter_J]

Originally Posted by susanlo
I was told by Catholic friends that if someone is a member of the Catholic Church and then chooses to stop attending the Catholic Church and join another Christian church, that this would be a mortal sin and there would be no chance for salvation.

What are apples an analogy for?

People – or more specifically Catholics. I was saying that, while I cannot deny that you know Catholics who say that, it’s important to realize that one person (a “bad apple” in the Catholic bunch, if you will) saying that does not mean that the other 1 billion Catholics say it too.

It’s the same with Protestants, no? I mean, I’m sure I could find a Protestant who says that leaving Protestantism for Catholicism is a ticket to Hell, but that doesn’t mean the rest of you say that as well.

 

[Cyril_Of_Canada]

i am catholic but i feel more engaged by protestant worship and preaching and appreciate the close fellowship offered by some protestant communities. i feel that my relationship with God would become deeper and my discipleship would become more intentional by joining a protestant church. please enlighten as to why this is a sin if my overall relationship with the Lord is improved.

thank you

So the substance of what you are saying is you want an emotional experience, so the protestant religion sounds attractive to you. Let’s change up what you said a bit and compare it to a relationship:

“I am married to a lady I just feel who doesn’t meet my emotional needs, but i feel more engaged by this other woman, and the way she talks to me and appreciate the close fellowship offered by some of her family members. I feel that my relationship with God would become deeper and my life would become more fulfilled by hanging out with this girl and pursuing an intimate relationship with her. Please enlighten as to why this is sin if my overall relationship with the Lord is improved.”

 

[susanlo]

People – or more specifically Catholics. I was saying that, while I cannot deny that you know Catholics who say that, it’s important to realize that one person (a “bad apple” in the Catholic bunch, if you will) saying that does not mean that the other 1 billion Catholics say it too.

It’s the same with Protestants, no? I mean, I’m sure I could find a Protestant who says that leaving Protestantism for Catholicism is a ticket to Hell, but that doesn’t mean the rest of you say that as well.

I definitely agree that there are bad apples in every group. However I thought I understood that it was a part of official teaching that it was a mortal sin for a Catholic to not go to Mass and to take part in sacraments at other churches. I am glad to know that this isn’t the teaching anymore.

I do agree that certain Protestants would say that it is wrong to become Catholic. However most Protestant groups do not officially teach that salvation is dependent on the church you belong to or how you receive sacraments, but based on your relationship with God through Christ. Is this the same as Catholic Church teaching?

 

[Michael68]

I definitely agree that there are bad apples in every group. However I thought I understood that it was a part of official teaching that it was a mortal sin for a Catholic to not go to Mass and to take part in sacraments at other churches. I am glad to know that this isn’t the teaching anymore.

I do agree that certain Protestants would say that it is wrong to become Catholic. However most Protestant groups do not officially teach that salvation is dependent on the church you belong to or how you receive sacraments, but based on your relationship with God through Christ. Is this the same as Catholic Church teaching?

We (Catholics) stress a personal relationship with Christ and the sacraments allow the grace to flow to deepen that relationship. That’s how I see it. Our priests are always stressing relationship in their homilies.

 

[Usige]

I have a hard time seeing how it would be sinful if in fact the CC truly now sees the non-Catholic Christians as brothers and sisters in Christ.

When a Catholic willingly leaves the Church they engage in an act of schism (rejection of papal authority). Additionally, if they know and reject Catholic teachings it is minimally material heresy. Hersey and schism are acts that further break the unity of Christ’s Church. Non-Catholics cannot be held to heresy or schism, but Catholics who willingly choose to break communion with the Church will be called to account for further fracturing the Church. Sin is those things that wound Christ and the splintering of His Church is most certainly wounding to him.

Why is schism a problem from a Catholic standpoint? Because we believe that Christ left Peter and his successors to guide his Church on Earth. By rejecting the authority of those Christ set in authority over us it is to reject His will.

Obviously non-Catholics will reject this, but it is a good part of why schismatics are automatically excommunicated (assuming they know that is the penalty).

 

[Adonia]

i am catholic but i feel more engaged by protestant worship and preaching and appreciate the close fellowship offered by some protestant communities. i feel that my relationship with God would become deeper and my discipleship would become more intentional by joining a protestant church. please enlighten as to why this is a sin if my overall relationship with the Lord is improved.

thank you

Are we here for fellowship or to worship God? I have been to many a Protestant service
and to me without the Holy Eucharist they are extremely lacking. They have replaced the altar and that day on Calvary with a pulpit, shunting Jesus off to the side in favor of a Pastors interpretation of the Holy Scriptures and for those reasons I will remain an orthodox believer until my dying day.

That being said, we all have to make decisions such as these ourselves always remember that and if you go over to them always orthodox Christianity is the set standard with every other Christian sect flowing off of that.

 

[Peter_J]

I definitely agree that there are bad apples in every group. However I thought I understood that it was a part of official teaching that it was a mortal sin for a Catholic to not go to Mass and to take part in sacraments at other churches. I am glad to know that this isn’t the teaching anymore.

Well, the teaching is that that is a grave matter.

If there’s one thing that I’ve seen over and over on CAF, it’s the mistaken notion that every grave matter is a mortal sin.

 

[Rosebud77]

When a Catholic willingly leaves the Church they engage in an act of schism (rejection of papal authority). Additionally, if they know and reject Catholic teachings it is minimally material heresy. Hersey and schism are acts that further break the unity of Christ’s Church. Non-Catholics cannot be held to heresy or schism, but Catholics who willingly choose to break communion with the Church will be called to account for further fracturing the Church. Sin is those things that wound Christ and the splintering of His Church is most certainly wounding to him.

Why is schism a problem from a Catholic standpoint? Because we believe that Christ left Peter and his successors to guide his Church on Earth. By rejecting the authority of those Christ set in authority over us it is to reject His will.

Obviously non-Catholics will reject this, but it is a good part of why schismatics are automatically excommunicated (assuming they know that is the penalty).

ah but you see that when a person leaves the church none of this applies.

 

[Peter_J]

Obviously non-Catholics will reject this, but it is a good part of why schismatics are automatically excommunicated (assuming they know that is the penalty).

Hi Usige. I don’t know your background (I read this ^^ post because I wanted to know what Rosebud was referring to, but I haven’t read all your other posts on CAF), but let me just reiterate what I said on the PNCC thread: I don’t think names are helpful.

ah but you see that when a person leaves the church none of this applies.

Hi Rosebud. My understanding is this: officially the Sunday Obligation applies to both Catholics and ex-Catholics (“never-been-Catholics” are off the hook), but practically speaking we typically trust that the ex-Catholic is following his/her conscience.

Hence why we don’t go round to ex-Catholics houses (or churches) on Sunday morning and say “You’re in mortal sin if you aren’t at the Catholic church in X number of minutes.”

 

[Peter_J]

Hi Rosebud. My understanding is this: officially the Sunday Obligation applies to both Catholics and ex-Catholics (“never-been-Catholics” are off the hook), but practically speaking **we typically trust that the ex-Catholic is following his/her conscience. **

P.S. And hopefully Protestants do the same vis-a-vis ex-Protestants who are Catholic.

 

[Bookcat]

I definitely agree that there are bad apples in every group. However I thought I understood that it was a part of official teaching that it was a mortal sin for a Catholic to not go to Mass and to take part in sacraments at other churches. I am glad to know that this isn’t the teaching anymore.
?

Such is the Discipline of the Church

Yes it is a grave matter for mortal sin to not attend Mass on the Lords Day (unless say one is sick etc). The Lords Day (Sunday- when we celebrate the Resurrection of our Lord) is extremely important and at the heart of Christian Life.

As some *early *Christian martyrs said when arrested for attending Mass (Eucharist) by authorities and asked why the defied the law they replied - “without the Lords Day - we cannot live”.

And yes a Catholic also is not to take part in Protestant Communion or the like.