Doesn't your relationship with God matter more than your denomination?

[Contarini]

It’s all about the Eucharist.
Christ is truly present in the Eucharist.
You don’t get that anywhere else.

According to Catholic teaching, the Orthodox and some other smaller churches also have the Real Presence.

Edwin

 

[rcwitness]

Because the unity of the Church is essential, and unity is not just a diffuse “let’s all get together” but is a covenantal relationship grounded in Jesus’ covenant with St. Peter.
This is the pattern throughout salvation history: God makes a covenant with a specific individual and forms a community by so doing.

Edwin

That’s a good insight. Those closest to the covenant relationship (knowledge, election, obedience, love of brother) are more indebted to the service of others, for the sake of the kingdom and her King! Catholics should consider themselves bound to the outpouring of love and mercy to all who are called and might be called, to all who bear the name of Jesus as their Lord.

 

[Rosebud77]

Jesus is not alone.

That’s a key part of the Christian Faith.

We have a personal relationship with Jesus, but not an individual one. Pope Benedict has written very well about the difference (long before he became Pope) in his Introduction to Christianity. Persons exist in relationship. God Himself is personal because He exists in a three-personed eternal relationship.

Edwin

disagree if you mean that ONLy with Catholics and disagree on other issues, If aperson believes in and loves the Lord Jesus and strives to live that life, then he is my brother, I do not need to go further than that and I do not

We exist alone and have personal responsibility, We are born alone and die and face Jesus alone.
'WHile loving and caring for others.

 

[neophyte]

That is a terrible analogy and very insulting to any Christian. Anglicans are deeply religious and love God. It is where I learned to know and love Jesus,

The OP didn’t speak of changing to a different one of the Rites that are in union with Rome, he spoke of leaving the Catholic Church altogether. It’s a perfect analogy, and it should resonate with any Christian. In fact, the analogy fails because marriage is not nearly as intimate as the relationship we’re called to have with God.

 

[Contarini]

disagree if you mean that ONLy with Catholics

I certainly mean nothing of the kind.

and disagree on other issues, If aperson believes in and loves the Lord Jesus and strives to live that life, then he is my brother, I do not need to go further than that and I do not

We exist alone and have personal responsibility, We are born alone and die and face Jesus alone.
'WHile loving and caring for others.

Well, this is a common modern Western view. I think it’s profoundly wrong.

Edwin

 

[todoeldiapulpin]

Hi. Weird question. Do you happen to know Spanish? Because father Fortea has talked about this in some of his posts in his blog.
As much as I remember, he says that he could pray in an evangelical church (he would still be catholic, of course).
The Catholic Church could have followed different paths to the one she followed, without deviating from the holy doctrine. She could have a similar spirituality to that of some evangelical churches. In fact, some parishes I have attended to are similar to those ones. The dominant spirituality (lax use) that the Catholic Church has also depends of the popes she has had. They have directed it towards one path or another, and I think it ALSO has subjective reasons --compare, for example, pope John Paul II to Benedict XVI, or both of them to the hispanic pope Francis: their ways of guiding the Church are different.
All that said, I would not recommend you to go to evangelical churches; you could become protestant, and, while good, I think being a catholic would be even better (we have the sacraments, for example).
Blessings.

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

What is my denomination? it is my communion with those who worship with me. What is the communion of those who worship with me? It is the body of Christ. Is the body of Christ less important than God or an integral part of God’s intention on how humanity ought to live and conform itself? Naturally God is the first loyalty yet the second loyalty is to your neighbour and in that way communion is essential. It’s not just us and God, it’s us, the Church and God.

 

[Peter_J]

What is my denomination? it is my communion with those who worship with me. What is the communion of those who worship with me? **It is the body of Christ. **

So you believe, but I believe that I’m in the body of Christ.

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

So you believe, but I believe that I’m in the body of Christ.

Not gonna take that away from you. I’m just responding to an attitude which says denominations aren’t important or are not the Church. All the more better if you believe your communion represents the one true Church on earth.

 

[Contarini]

Hi. Weird question. Do you happen to know Spanish? Because father Fortea has talked about this in some of his posts in his blog.
As much as I remember, he says that he could pray in an evangelical church (he would still be catholic, of course).
The Catholic Church could have followed different paths to the one she followed, without deviating from the holy doctrine. She could have a similar spirituality to that of some evangelical churches. In fact, some parishes I have attended to are similar to those ones. The dominant spirituality (lax use) that the Catholic Church has also depends of the popes she has had. They have directed it towards one path or another, and I think it ALSO has subjective reasons --compare, for example, pope John Paul II to Benedict XVI, or both of them to the hispanic pope Francis: their ways of guiding the Church are different.
All that said, I would not recommend you to go to evangelical churches; you could become protestant, and, while good, I think being a catholic would be even better (we have the sacraments, for example).
Blessings.

Personally, I have found over the years that I most want to be Protestant when in a Catholic church, and vice versa.

I tend to miss whatever I don’t have.

But a healthy, well-grounded Catholicism surely allows one to appreciate what is good in other traditions without having any inclination to leave Catholicism. And if one does have such an inclination, the problem is in one’s experience of Catholicism not in the fact that one is experiencing a different tradition.

Edwin

 

[benhur]

Pardon my ignorance but does the Catholic Church insist you would be committing a sin?

Hi W,

Some would say damnable sin. Depends whether you are old school or new, post or pre vat 2…i think. I mean when folks say there is no salvation outside the CC , they mean it. If one follows Trent decrees, P’s are in very very precarious position without legit priests and therefore no legit scarmants(save baptism)…One needs the CC , her priests and her sacraments to hope in eternal life, per old school. It is therefore necessary for us to convert to CC for salvation.

So while C have free will and choice, stepping away from legit saving church for sure is a sin with eternal consequences, per some C folk.

The CC official stance is vague enough, or written in such a way and in different places, that both views towards "other " churches have some footing. After all, they don’t want a schism over this, and placate both sides, in my relatively ignorant opinion.(just scratching the surface).

Blessings

 

[Contarini]

Hi W,

Some would say damnable sin. Depends whether you are old school or new, post or pre vat 2…i think. I mean when folks say there is no salvation outside the CC , they mean it. If one follows Trent decrees, P’s are in very very precarious position without legit priests and therefore no legit scarmants(save baptism)…One needs the CC , her priests and her sacraments to hope in eternal life, per old school. It is therefore necessary for us to convert to CC for salvation.

So while C have free will and choice, stepping away from legit saving church for sure is a sin with eternal consequences, per some C folk.

The CC official stance is vague enough, or written in such a way and in different places, that both views towards "other " churches have some footing. After all, they don’t want a schism over this, and placate both sides, in my relatively ignorant opinion.(just scratching the surface).

Blessings

Leaving the Church would, according to Catholic teaching, definitely be a grave sin (schism).

The Church will not say that a given individual has committed a “mortal” sin, because that implies knowledge and intent. A person who genuinely believes that they are following God in leaving the Church might well be in a state of grace even while committing the objectively grave sin of schism.

Edwin

 

[rcwitness]

Leaving the Church would, according to Catholic teaching, definitely be a grave sin (schism).

The Church will not say that a given individual has committed a “mortal” sin, because that implies knowledge and intent. A person who genuinely believes that they are following God in leaving the Church might well be in a state of grace even while committing the objectively grave sin of schism.

Edwin

Interesting comment. I think I agree with you.

This is where Purgatory plays it’s part. The realization of that sin of schism and it’s consequences will cause a suffering equal to (or even greater than) if the individual would have suffered righteously in order not to separate.

I believe that most times someone leaves the Church for a denomination it’s because someone in the Church acted contrary to the faith. This demands either suffering for righteousness in order to benefit the Church, or stepping away from the force that is fighting the Church.

It might be a lousy Priest who delivers uninspiring homilies. Or a scandal involving innocent children. Or gossip in a parish that never seems to end. Or members who go to Mass each Sunday but live lives that bear nothing to do with conversion of heart and faith.

So it is easier to go to a nice (and maybe truly more healthy) congregation that is “Bible alone” and independently administrated.

 

[Peter_J]

Pardon my ignorance but does the Catholic Church insist you would be committing a sin?

See the highlighted sentence in this paragraph from the Decree on Ecumenism…

1. Even in the beginnings of this one and only Church of God there arose certain rifts,(19) which the Apostle strongly condemned.(20) But in subsequent centuries much more serious dissensions made their appearance and quite large communities came to be separated from full communion with the Catholic Church - for which, often enough, men of both sides were to blame. The children who are born into these Communities and who grow up believing in Christ cannot be accused of the sin involved in the separation, and the Catholic Church embraces upon them as brothers, with respect and affection. For men who believe in Christ and have been truly baptized are in communion with the Catholic Church even though this communion is imperfect. The differences that exist in varying degrees between them and the Catholic Church - whether in doctrine and sometimes in discipline, or concerning the structure of the Church - do indeed create many obstacles, sometimes serious ones, to full ecclesiastical communion. The ecumenical movement is striving to overcome these obstacles. But even in spite of them it remains true that all who have been justified by faith in Baptism are members of Christ’s body,(21) and have a right to be called Christian, and so are correctly accepted as brothers by the children of the Catholic Church.(22)

vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_decree_19641121_unitatis-redintegratio_en.html

Although it doesn’t say this explicitly, I would take it that if someone is Catholic and then leaves for Protestantism, then there is sin there, objectively. (The “sin involved in the separation”.)

 

[Duane1966]

All Christians believe that outside the Church there is no salvation.

 

[ffg]

This subject always brings me back to the beginning of Matt 25, that parable of the 10 virgins best demonstrates that knowing the name of Jesus, though it’s powerful, is simply not enough.

Per Jesus Himself, if that was the important item, that’s what would have been taught. That’s contrary to a thick Bible, with hoards of info (much related to instruction and process), which houses only parts of the life of Christ.

I’m sure everyone has heard -

BASIC
instruction
before
leaving
earth

Basic indicates there is more!

Prepare well and properly the parable teaches.

 

[JanetF]

Which denomination teaches the true presence in the Eucharist…that’s all that matters.

 

[johnnyc176]

i am catholic but i feel more engaged by protestant worship and preaching and appreciate the close fellowship offered by some protestant communities. i feel that my relationship with God would become deeper and my discipleship would become more intentional by joining a protestant church. please enlighten as to why this is a sin if my overall relationship with the Lord is improved.

thank you

Jesus Christ and His Church are One and the Same. A true personal relationship with Jesus must include the Church that He founded which is the Catholic Church, the Sacraments He instituted for us (‘I will be with you always’) and His teachings (doctrine…‘If you love me you will obey my commandments’). Other wise it is one seeking a personal Jesus.

 

[PJM]

i am catholic but i feel more engaged by protestant worship and preaching and appreciate the close fellowship offered by some protestant communities. i feel that my relationship with God would become deeper and my discipleship would become more intentional by joining a protestant church. please enlighten as to why this is a sin if my overall relationship with the Lord is improved.

thank you

In a WORD:

[1] “TRUTH”

Truth can be NOTHING other than singular per defined issue

Pope Benedict XVI put it this way:

“There cannot be your truth and my truth or there would be NO Truth”

[2] Nowhere in the entire bible can it be shown that God [Yahweh or Jesus] ever tolerated, accepted, DESIRED, or permitted ANY other competing sets of faith believes other than what THEY TAUGHT, Commanded, and demanded FULL allegiance too.

[3] After 2,000 years the communities making up the RCC STILL HAVE JUST ONE set of faith beliefs

While our Christian Brethren after nearly 500 years have thousands of DIFFERENT churches EACH with its OWN set of faith beliefs, which IDENTIFY it. So it seems fair to ask: IF THE RCC IS NOT THE ONE TRUE CHURCH & FAITH OF JESUS CHRIST; THEN WHICH OF THE THOUSANDS OF ALTERNATIVES IS; & BASED ON WHAT EVIDENCE?

[4] I’m going a bit out on the limb here BUT I’d bet you do not FULLY understand and or accept the very FOUNDATIONAL teaching of the RCC on the REAL Presence actually, really, truly and substantially BEING GOD! Jesus Christ in Person?

Our Catechism:
#1324 The Eucharist is “the source and summit of the Christian life.” “The other sacraments, and indeed all ecclesiastical ministries and works of the apostolate, are bound up with the Eucharist and are oriented toward it. For in the blessed Eucharist is contained the whole spiritual good of the Church, namely Christ himself, our Pasch.”[Sacrifice]

[5] The practice of religion is for GOOD CAUSE termed “Faith”

[6] We hold WORSHIP services [Masses] NOT to please ourselves; NO! Catholic Mass is GOD-CENTERED both because God is TRULY [not just spiritually] in our Midst [an in other competing churches]; and because it;s ALL about Dvine Worship!

What we like, dislike, prefer is NOT of significance to GOD; but only to our ego’s.

We Go to Church to KNOW; to Love; to Serve and to OBEY God’s command that we do EXACTLY THAT. Amen

Fellowship, in itself good; is NOT intended to COMPETE with Divine Worship. Which is WHY we Catholics most often have it outside of the Mass…“DO THIS IN MEMORY OF ME!”

Pray much my friend

Patrick

 

[Robert_in_SD]

Hi W,

Some would say damnable sin. Depends whether you are old school or new, post or pre vat 2…i think. I mean when folks say there is no salvation outside the CC , they mean it. If one follows Trent decrees, P’s are in very very precarious position without legit priests and therefore no legit scarmants(save baptism)…One needs the CC , her priests and her sacraments to hope in eternal life, per old school. It is therefore necessary for us to convert to CC for salvation.

So while C have free will and choice, stepping away from legit saving church for sure is a sin with eternal consequences, per some C folk.

The CC official stance is vague enough, or written in such a way and in different places, that both views towards "other " churches have some footing. After all, they don’t want a schism over this, and placate both sides, in my relatively ignorant opinion.(just scratching the surface).

Blessings

Hmm. I’m not sure if this is a fair characterization of what the Church teaches on salvation outside of the Church. Best description of the teaching on this is in Lumen Gentium, par. 14:

1. This Sacred Council wishes to turn its attention firstly to the Catholic faithful. Basing itself upon Sacred Scripture and Tradition, it teaches that the Church, now sojourning on earth as an exile, is necessary for salvation. Christ, present to us in His Body, which is the Church, is the one Mediator and the unique way of salvation. In explicit terms He Himself affirmed the necessity of faith and baptism(124) and thereby affirmed also the necessity of the Church, for through baptism as through a door men enter the Church. Whosoever, therefore, knowing that the Catholic Church was made necessary by Christ, would refuse to enter or to remain in it, could not be saved.

A link to the whole document is here

Best way to put it is that God will hold you accountable for what you know, and will not hold you accountable for what you don’t know. So, as long as one *knows *that the Church is necessary for salvation, and refuses to enter or remain, one’s salvation is in peril. Where a person “is” in this regard is not for us to say. It is between God and that person. I don’t think the teaching has been anything more (or less) than this.

Peace,
Robert