Dog, Cow or Jackass?

[dogknox]

Only man can sin…If you say you are without sin then you are NOT “man”!
Animals can’t love thus they cannot sin. All sins are against love, example; it is not loving to be selfish,or to disobey God.

**To Love is to Give Of Self! **

Jesus loved his father and us, he GAVE of himself completely. Man was saved by; “Love Alone”!!

But if this helps, animals cannot hate, dogs, cats, cows, snakes etc, none can choose to hate. Only Man is capable of the decision to love or to hate! Only man can sit on the fence only man can be lukewarm, love and then hate all within seconds!
If someone tells you… “I am without sin” then your automatic reply should be; “You are a Jackass”! Ha-ha

 

[Catholic90]

If someone tells you… “I am without sin” then your automatic reply should be; “You are a Jackass”! Ha-ha

Oh, yeah, that’s real charitable.

Many will argue with you about the ability of animals to love as well. Or the capability to be evil.

 

[Sufjon]

Only man can sin…If you say you are without sin then you are NOT “man”!
Animals can’t love thus they cannot sin. All sins are against love, example; it is not loving to be selfish,or to disobey God.

**To Love is to Give Of Self! **

Jesus loved his father and us, he GAVE of himself completely. Man was saved by; “Love Alone”!!

But if this helps, animals cannot hate, dogs, cats, cows, snakes etc, none can choose to hate. Only Man is capable of the decision to love or to hate! Only man can sit on the fence only man can be lukewarm, love and then hate all within seconds!
If someone tells you… “I am without sin” then your automatic reply should be; “You are a Jackass”! Ha-ha

Hi DogKnox: Personally and am not very sure of the distinction between people and animals aside from level of intellect. Even on that front I wonder how advanced we might be, because we have developed the practical side of our brains at great cost to the intuitive side, which is more intact with animals. Animals are more synchronistic than we are, and animals in the wild more so than domesticated animals, who spend a lot of time around humans. I have seen what I assess to be a great deal of love from animals and have seen studies that show that many species are self-aware. Who can say? Perhaps the best bet is to treat them with a good deal of respect.

Back to the title of the thread, I think donkeys and mules are particularly noble in character and very lovable.

Your friend,
Sufjon

 

[dogknox]

Hello Sufjon it is good to meet you…
You said…

Hi DogKnox: Personally and **am not very sure of the distinction between people and animals **aside from level of intellect. Even on that front I wonder how advanced we might be, because we have developed the practical side of our brains at great cost to the intuitive side, which is more intact with animals. Animals are more synchronistic than we are, and animals in the wild more so than domesticated animals, who spend a lot of time around humans. I have seen what I assess to be a great deal of love from animals and have seen studies that show that many species are self-aware. Who can say? Perhaps the best bet is to treat them with a good deal of respect.
Back to the title of the thread, I think donkeys and mules are particularly noble in character and very lovable.

I reply: Man is made in the image of God…Not animals!
1 John 4:8
Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.

Sufjon Question…What is the image of God?

1 John 4:12
No one has ever seen God; but** if we love** one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us.
Sufjon Question: How is it that God lives in Man>> "IF what"?

Animals can’t love… 0nly “MAN” is made in the image of God!
Sufjon You may what your dog to love you… (I hate to break it to you…) “Your dog can’t love”! Your dog does not love you… but on the other hand, your dog can’t hate you!

Sufjon God IS LOVE!
Adams sin was against LOVE! (Adams sin was against God)
John 14:15
“If you love me, keep my commands."

John 14:21
Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them.”

Sufjon Adam did not love God!

1 John 2:4
Whoever says, “I know him,”** but does not do what he commands **is a liar, and the truth is not in that person.

Sufjon Adam did not love God!

1 John 5:3
In fact,** this is love for God: to keep his commands.** And his commands are not burdensome,

Sufjon Adam did not love God!

Sufjon God “COMMANDS us to LOVE”! He “COMMANDS Love of him…AND LOVE of neighbor”!

2 John 1:6
And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love.

Sufjon What is LOVE!!?

Sufjon animals can’t love…Man in made in the image of God! Only man can love and only man can hate… “It is called free will”!

“Only man can sin”!<<
Your dog can’t sin because he can’t love… he can’t break God’s command!
Dogknox

 

[Linda_Marie]

Although only man is made in God’s image, animals are also His Creation and made with love.

Animals are capable of emotions. I have witnessed the entire range; hatred, anger, sorrow, happiness and love. Emotions are not exclusive to mankind and are not what makes us ‘made in God’s image’. It is our immortal soul which makes us made in His Image.

Animals have souls as well, but their souls are not immortal.

Only Man can sin, because only Man is held responsible for his actions. Animals do not have the free will to reject God nor to choose Him. This is exclusive to Man.

One principle is that all living things have a soul. Here soul is defined as what makes an organic body live. Now when any living thing dies, its soul is separated from its body. In the case of plants and animals the soul goes out of existence. But in the case of man, the soul remains in existence because it is a spiritual or immaterial thing. Consequently, it differs from the souls of animals in two important respects. First, it is the seat of intelligence or reason. For this reason a man is held responsible for his actions in a way that animals are not. Secondly, the soul is immortal. A thing which has no physical parts cannot fall apart or be poisoned or be crushed or be put out of existence. For this reason the souls of the saved will always be aware of themselves as enjoying the vision of God for all eternity. This enjoyment will be the result of having chosen to act on earth in such a way that one did the will of God rather than one’s own will. And the souls of the damned will be aware of themselves as never attaining this vision of God because they have shown by their lives on earth that they did not wish this vision but instead preferred their own will.
ewtn.com/expert/answers/pets_in_heaven.htm

 

[dogknox]

Oh, yeah, that’s real charitable.
Many will argue with you about the ability of animals to love as well. Or the capability to be evil.

I reply… It is good to meet you too…It’s got nothing at all to do with “charity”!
Scriptures… “Man is made in the Image of God”!
It is as simple as that…

Dogknox

 

[Sufjon]

Hello Sufjon it is good to meet you…
You said…

I reply: Man is made in the image of God…Not animals!
1 John 4:8
Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.

Sufjon Question…What is the image of God?

1 John 4:12
No one has ever seen God; but** if we love** one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us.
Sufjon Question: How is it that God lives in Man>> "IF what"?

Animals can’t love… 0nly “MAN” is made in the image of God!
Sufjon You may what your dog to love you… (I hate to break it to you…) “Your dog can’t love”! Your dog does not love you… but on the other hand, your dog can’t hate you!

Sufjon God IS LOVE!
Adams sin was against LOVE! (Adams sin was against God)
John 14:15
“If you love me, keep my commands."

John 14:21
Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them.”

Sufjon Adam did not love God!

1 John 2:4
Whoever says, “I know him,”** but does not do what he commands **is a liar, and the truth is not in that person.

Sufjon Adam did not love God!

1 John 5:3
In fact,** this is love for God: to keep his commands.** And his commands are not burdensome,

Sufjon Adam did not love God!

Sufjon God “COMMANDS us to LOVE”! He “COMMANDS Love of him…AND LOVE of neighbor”!

2 John 1:6
And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love.

Sufjon What is LOVE!!?

Sufjon animals can’t love…Man in made in the image of God! Only man can love and only man can hate… “It is called free will”!

“Only man can sin”!<<
Your dog can’t sin because he can’t love… he can’t break God’s command!
Dogknox

Dear Dogknox: You have a rather interesting point of view, to which you are strongly committed. You seem to also be expressing that you have a firm understanding that your job as a human is to love. That is probably the only important thing that either of us needs to know. If we can work on getting that done, then the rest is probably superfluous.

Your friend
Sufjon

 

[dogknox]

Although only man is made in God’s image, animals are also His Creation and made with love.
Animals are capable of emotions. I have witnessed the entire range; hatred, anger, sorrow, happiness and love. Emotions are not exclusive to mankind and are not what makes us ‘made in God’s image’. It is our immortal soul which makes us made in His Image.
Animals have souls as well, but their souls are not immortal.
Only Man can sin, because only Man is held responsible for his actions. Animals do not have the free will to reject God nor to choose Him. This is exclusive to Man.

Linda Marie It is good to meet you…
I reply: You twist it a little bit.
Sure Animals have emotions… BUT not “LOVE”!

Linda Marie There is just the three… “Faith, Hope & Love”!
Next you will say… “Animals also have; Faith and HOPE!”
Yes God made Animals with love… but he did not make them in his image.
**Think: **"God put Adam and Eve together but he could not make them love. Love is a choice from the heart. If God gave them a magic potion, to make them fall in love, then their love would not be true love!
FACT: Adam did not love Eve…
“The woman you put here with me, she gave me to eat”! Adam did not eat from the tree, he got his fruit from the woman!
Linda Marie Adam used Eve as his excuse for eating.

Genesis 2:16
And the LORD God commanded the man, “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden;
17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.”

NOTE: Do you see it: God does NOT tell Adam he can’t** touch the tree.**
NOTE: Eve was not made yet… It was only Adam who God told not to eat!
Genesis 2:18
The LORD God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him.”

**Genesis 3:2 **
The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden,
3 but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, **and you must not touch it, **or you will die.’”

Eve did not love Adam…
Linda Marie Eve disobeyed Adam! It was Adam who told Eve; ** not to touch the tree,** it was not God’s words, “Don’t touch” it was Adams! Eve disregarded Adams command, of not to touch!! Proving she did not love Adam!

Adam and Eve were removed from heaven because they did not have love! To love God is to keep his commands! To be husband and wife is to LOVE!
Again the two did not love their sin was to “Not love”! They did not follow their heart.

All sins are against “LOVE”! Dogs, Cats, cows, donkeys etc… can’t sin!

Linda Marie Only “MAN” is made in the image of God… Only man can LOVE… and or hate!

Dogknox

 

[dogknox]

Dear Dogknox: You have a rather interesting point of view, to which you are strongly committed. You seem to also be expressing that you have a firm understanding that your job as a human is to love. That is probably the only important thing that either of us needs to know. If we can work on getting that done, then the rest is probably superfluous.
Your friend
Sufjon

I reply: I am a sinner… “I am man”!
FACT: All men are sinners or they are NOT “Man”!
“Mary my mother” is a sinner… to say anything different is to say; Mary is not “Man”!
Mary is made in the image of God, like the rest of us! “Man is made in the image of God!”

Sufjon Am I saying “Mary had sin?” NO… I am pointing out…“Mary is MAN” She also is made in the image of God!
Only man can sin because only; “Man” is made in the image of God!
All sins are against “LOVE”!

Love: To give from the heart!
Sin: To NOT give of self…(Selfish)!

Man was saved by LOVE! Jesus is God!
Man must enter through the door of LOVE! Jesus is a door!
Man will be judged by what Jesus finds in each mans heart!
Sufjon My post has nothing about; “MY Love” or about, my ability to love or hate! (I know I have taken the selfish way many times I am a sinner through and through)
Or my job as a human is to love.

It is about, “God and salvation!” It is about; MAN!

Dogknox

 

[roveau]

It is my life long experience that animals do love. There is love for their owners and the families they live with, for example. There are some very noteworth cases of heroic acts where they save family members from fires and other dangers, some have been known to travel hundreds of miles to be reunited with their owners.

There is nothing in the Scriptures and the Traditions of the Church Fathers and the Church authorities that states that animals do not love.

 

[dogknox]

It is my life long experience that animals do love. There is love for their owners and the families they live with, for example. There are some very noteworth cases of heroic acts where they save family members from fires and other dangers, some have been known to travel hundreds of miles to be reunited with their owners.

There is nothing in the Scriptures and the Traditions of the Church Fathers and the Church authorities that states that animals do not love.

Soo you are saying… “Animals can sin”??

 

[Linda_Marie]

Linda Marie It is good to meet you…
I reply: You twist it a little bit.
Sure Animals have emotions… BUT not “LOVE”!

Good to meet you too.

There are animals which have given their lives for their humans. In this, they have shown extraordinary love.

Animals are not capable of committing a sin. An animal may attack and kill a human, but it is not guilty of murder. A human is because they know that it is wrong and choose to do it anyway.

I think, though, that you are defining love in a particular way. Your definition, as I understand it, is that only Man has been gifted with the capacity to Love as God Loves and that the love that animals show is not the same.

Linda Marie There is just the three… “Faith, Hope & Love”!
Next you will say… “Animals also have; Faith and HOPE!”
Yes God made Animals with love… but he did not make them in his image.

How could animals have Faith and Hope? They do not have the capacity to understand these concepts. Love is different from these. One can love without having faith or hope.

I agree with you. Animals are not made in God’s image. They do not possess an immortal soul and will not be judged on their actions. They are not responsible.

All sins are against “LOVE”! Dogs, Cats, cows, donkeys etc… can’t sin!

Linda Marie Only “MAN” is made in the image of God… Only man can LOVE… and or hate!

Dogknox

Just ask some animal keepers at a zoo. There are some animals which hate with a passion. There have been rogue wild animals which have gone on killing sprees. These actions in humans are evil, but not in animals because they can’t sin.

Again, it is our immortal soul that makes us made in God’s Image. Animals have mortal souls. When they die, they cease to be. Only those whose souls continue after death will face Judgment, will be held responsible for their choices.

I do agree with you that all sins boil down to being offenses against Love. Only humans have the ability to choose to love or to hate.

God told Adam not to eat of the fruit of that tree. Adam, being given the command, was given the choice to obey or not. In choosing not to obey, he Sinned, the mighty Sin which brought Death to all mankind.

Animals, never having been given any commands, cannot choose to disobey and thus they cannot sin.

I disagree that animals cannot love. What they cannot do is sin against love.

 

[seeker57]

I agree that animals do express love of a sort. I know I have had animals that I believe expressed it to me.

I also know someone right now whose dog is so attached to him he has a hard time leaving it for more than a short length of time.

As for the sin thing, I’ll leave that to people who adhere to the Bible to argue.

Seeker

 

[Noesis]

Soo you are saying… “Animals can sin”??

Your definition of sin is too restricted, and moreover, it is based on this notion of love, which you have not explained the meaning of.

Animals can ‘love’ and yet not sin, because they lack the capacity to know and determine what is good and what is evil. An animal cannot disobey the eternal law of God, because they do not have the consciousness to understand revelation, and neither have they the reason to fathom it.

But I would expand the main ‘purpose’ of your thread to say that the philosophy of ethics, is something which we can only understand to be a product of human civilisation; and that ethics itself, has only ever been used as a means to cultivate the human psyche.

Whether or not this is a great observation, I will not say. I suppose it merits its own thread.

 

[NeedImprovement]

Interesting thread.

I’m just not sure about the jackass … Numbers 22:28-30 tells us of Balaam’s talking donkey … when he wouldn’t listen to God, God had him listen to the donkey. And in Chapter 19 of the Gospel of Luke our Blessed Lord rides on the back of the donkey on his triumphal entry into Jerusalem. Sometimes a donkey is the Lord’s beast of choice. St. Joseph of Cupertino used to call himself a donkey … So the donkeys of the world might take exception to the original post )) , because even a jackass can be something extremely useful when God decides it to be so.

My own opinion is that animals can show affection … a *“limited love”, * we might say. But they cannot love as a human can. In our capacity , we love with a will and an intellect. In our limited knowledge of creation, we state that only men and angels possess a will and an intellect. So we can express the image of the fullness of God’s love in our own human love. To name a few dimesions of our capacity to love:

We can love with compassion, with pity, with joy and … with the quintessential character of God’s love - Mercy . Animals can’t do that - they have no concept of justice.

 

[Newbie2]

Soo you are saying… “Animals can sin”??

I guess not. Rather, your premise is a non sequitur. Having the capacity for love is an essential part of being human, but it is our human nature which is posessed by no other species which allows us/causes us to sin. We could very easily make the same argument, using your logic, in saying that the dog, cow or jackass cannot read or write, and humans can, so they cannot sin since they cannot read or write.

Your argument seems to go:

Only humans can sin.
Humans can love
Animals cannot love
therefor they cannot sin

It is more correct to say that:

Only humans can sin
Animals are not humans
Therefor they cannot sin

And leave it at that.

 

[Havard]

I noticed a bunch of posters have mentioned ‘love’, but aren’t necessarily talking about the same thing, as the word has dozens of meanings.

I’m only pointing this out because differing usage can lead to all kinds of unnecessary disputes. So I would suggest being explicit in what each of you means by ‘love’ in this context to avoid such distractions.

 

[dogknox]

Havard & Newbie2 & NeedImprovement & Noesis

I reply: I am a sinner… “I am man”!
FACT: All men are sinners or they are NOT “Man”! It is this that separates us from all other animals!

ONLY MAN<<< >>JUST MAN<<< is made in the image of God!!!
ONLY MAN<<< >>JUST MAN<<< can SIN!!!

God is LOVE! To be in the Image of God is to have the Ability to Love!
Again “God is LOVE!” Pure 100% LOVE!
1 John 4:8
The one who does not love does not know God, for** God is love.**
&
1 John 4:16
We have come to know and have believed the love which God has for us God is love, and the one who abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him.

FACT: Animals are NOT made in the image of God… They CANNOT LOVE!
Sure they might run into a burning building… but they are NOT acting out of “Love”!
Call it what you will but not LOVE!

Love is a willingness to let go of self, for other, even unto death… As Jesus on the cross!
Beat a dog…hit and kick him… poke him with hot pokers… torture him… then see if he will go near you, never mind going into a burning building after you!
“Love would go into the building!!”
As… “Love saved us from the cross!”

You can train a dog to rescue a child from a burning building… but it is NOT… it cannot be LOVE that the dog is responding to!
Animals cannot love… They are NOT made in the Image of LOVE!

There are just the three (3) faith Hope & LOVE of the three (3) love is the greater!

Dogs can’t have Hope or FAITH… so definitely cannot have LOVE!

All sins; Every sin is against “LOVE!”
If your actions are NOT “Loving actions” then there is a good chance your actions are a sin!

Toss a rock through a window… This is NOT an loving action… it is a sin!
Toss a rock through a window to wake a person up in a burning building, this is a loving action!
It is each mans heart that Jesus looks at, in the Judgement, it is Love of lack of, that will save or condemn!

Animals cannot sin because they cannot love!
God is LOVE… all sins are against God!

Dogknox

 

[Newbie2]

Animals cannot sin because they cannot love!
God is LOVE… all sins are against God!

Dogknox

I say animals cannot sin because they are not human.

Either way, we come to the same conclusion. Not worth any more discussion, at least for me.

 

[dogknox]

I say animals cannot sin because they are not human.
Either way, we come to the same conclusion. Not worth any more discussion, at least for me.

Question… “Why are they (Animals) NOT human?”
Answer is: Because they are NOT made in the image of God!

Man is made in the image of God, only man is made in the image of God… And…
And only man can sin because only man is made in the Image of God!!

All sins are against God!.. All sins are against “Love”!