Dog Meat

[distracted]

It is not “inherent in their creation”. Please read Genesis.

Marfran is pointing out issues with eating meat with an emphasis on the cruelty. No one can or is trying to force anyone to stop eating meat.It obviously has to be a personal choice.

It is not unChristian to be a vegetarian or a vegan. We can all try to make the world a better place in various ways. Being a vegan or a vegetariarian is also going in the direction of the perfect world God wanted.

i frankkly think it is kinda unChristian to be a vegan… it is unchristian because God told us to take care of our bodies… Our bodies are the temple of the Holy Spirit… and we are not to “defile” the body…

knowingly shortening your life by not eating meat is going against that principle…

and again, in Proverbs somewhere it says that its a shame not to live to be 100… something you CANNOT do if a vegan… or even a vegetarian who eats cheese and eggs, probably…

 

[4elise]

Okay, I agree in principle that the way these Factory farms work is not good and that animals should be killed in a more humane way. But, I honestly cannot afford to buy organic meat and many others cannot either. I also need meat at least occasionally, and not having it drives me insane. So, is it okay if I support legislative efforts to address this issue to make factory farms more humane (let animals have grass under them, see the sun, more room to frolic, better diet, etc.), to make slaughter houses more humane, and to make dairy and egg plants more humane, while at the same time occasionally eating the meat, dairy, and eggs that comes out of them? Vegan and vegetarian diets are too cruel for me and others to follow. I tried to eat an eggplant dish and a tofu dish at a Chinese restaurant once during Lent and I almost puked! Such meatlike vegetarian dishes make me nauseous. Now, mushrooms on the other hand I can tolerate better with a nice sauce or seasoning. I also cannot tolerate eating salads every single day. Something’s got to give.

I completely understand that it can be costly to buy organic meat, and really sadly this is no guarantee that they have lived under the sun, grass fed, etc.

I also understand that some vegetarian dishes may take some getting used to… but since you agree “in principle that the way these Factory farms work is not good and that animals should be killed in a more humane way” — I wonder if I could make some suggestions that might help…

** Try vegetarian chili, lots of fiber and protein - home made or out of the can
** A peanut butter and jelly sandwich makes a great lunch even for adults! - or sub the jelly with a banana and you may be able to sing like Elvis (apparently one of his favorites!)
** A handful of almonds adds great crunch and all the protein one needs in a salad
** So many good veggie burgers now out there -
** A veggie pizza

And even if you aren’t read to make any big change - just being open to the idea, making this choice once a week, or once a day instead of a burger - it can only help

Not everyone thinks that their actions can or do make a difference. I think this is one of the ways that most Catholics are really different. We do believe that our individual actions matter - so working together we are trying to make the world a better place.

For me, making the connection in a thread like this - (1) the way the dogs in the OP are treated is something I wouldn’t want to be part of… (2) I’m willing to consider the way that food comes to me may be something I have to consider (3) I do not want my food to be part of this ---- then (4) I’ve got to learn how I can do this…

Blessings,

p.s. - we do have a group here on CAF to share resources and recipes Catholic Vegetarians and Vegans: forums.catholic-questions.org/group.php?groupid=90

 

[pnewton]

For many of us it is our faith, and understanding of the tenets of our faith, that has helped us to make the personal choice of refraining from the participation in the cruel industry of factory farming.

This is something that should be respected, just like I respect those that boycott this store or that company as a matter of conscience. I believe all Christians should offer this respect and that vegitarians of conscience ought to respect their fellow brothers and sisters who do not see things this way.

The dogs in the video are not factory farmed animals, and the treatment of them is appalling to most Westerners.?

You have a point, sort of. I still have sympathy and respect for those who can not stomach the idea of personally killing for their own meat but still wish to eat. I did not find the video all that distressing. Partially because I recognize the propaganda techniques and focus just on the facts. The fact is, that one the animal experiences the first pain, death is swift. Yes, it is brutal, but death can always be seen as brutal. I do not think many could stomach a kosher killing of a paschal lamb, or even the death of free-range, organically fed animals.

Also, a lot of third-world countries do no have the luxury of what we consider to be Western civility.

 

[severus68]

This is something that should be respected, just like I respect those that boycott this store or that company as a matter of conscience. I believe all Christians should offer this respect and that vegitarians of conscience ought to respect their fellow brothers and sisters who do not see things this way.

You have a point, sort of. I still have sympathy and respect for those who can not stomach the idea of personally killing for their own meat but still wish to eat. I did not find the video all that distressing. Partially because I recognize the propaganda techniques and focus just on the facts. The fact is, that one the animal experiences the first pain, death is swift. Yes, it is brutal, but death can always be seen as brutal. I do not think many could stomach a kosher killing of a paschal lamb, or even the death of free-range, organically fed animals.

Also, a lot of third-world countries do no have the luxury of what we consider to be Western civility.

The Op did not start this thread to disrespect anyone but to point cruelty that exists that we may not all be fully aware of, mutual respect is necessary.

Many don’t want to know how their food comes to them. I wonder why they find it horrifying watching slaughter of animals and can still eat the end products without qualms. There is no kind death.

If there was grain, fruit and vegetables grown instead of using land to raise animals for food, many, many more people could be fed. Many people in poor countries do not have the luxury of meat protein. There are many poor in India and they choose to be vegetarian. It is the richer, more westernised Indian who is more likely to eat meat.

 

[pnewton]

Many don’t want to know how their food comes to them. I wonder why they find it horrifying watching slaughter of animals and can still eat the end products without qualms. There is no kind death.

This should not be difficult to understand. One can often accept intellectual what one will not accept emotionally. I am going to have to have a coloscopy this year, yet I insist on being out and desire to be spared the details. Yet I can appreciate the need for it. We can accpept the grace of God given us through the death of Christ yet have no stomach for the details of the crucifixion. I have even known those who can not stand to watch The Passion. Should they be denied salvation?

I know these are not the same, but they do prove the principle that one must not have to possess the stomach for every gory detail to have a right to enjoy the result. I believe it is this principle that is under fire from such videos as linked in the OP. And yes, it is propaganda.

 

[severus68]

This should not be difficult to understand. One can often accept intellectual what one will not accept emotionally. I am going to have to have a coloscopy this year, yet I insist on being out and desire to be spared the details. Yet I can appreciate the need for it. We can accpept the grace of God given us through the death of Christ yet have no stomach for the details of the crucifixion. I have even known those who can not stand to watch The Passion. Should they be denied salvation?

I know these are not the same, but they do prove the principle that one must not have to possess the stomach for every gory detail to have a right to enjoy the result. I believe it is this principle that is under fire from such videos as linked in the OP. And yes, it is propaganda.

Yes there are unpleasant sights we spare ourselves when we have to have these unpleasant things done. Yes, this is not the same. We can sometimes spare others, humans and animals needless if we make ourselves aware. I personally believe we should be very clear about how Christ suffered for us, unpleasant though the details are.

 

[Tamsulosin]

A colonoscopy may be deemed necesary to look inside the colon directly and diagnose possible illneses like cancer.Virtual colonoscopies are not that accurate.
Killing and eating animals for food,may not be necessary when there are other sources of nutrition.

I will give you a story.We took our dog for a check up.They took an xray and found he had cancer.It was removed sucessfuly. Think now of the dogs and other animals you are eating that most likely have illnesses,including cancer.You are in fact swallowing all those cancer cells.

Are they x-raying every cow they slaughter?
And some people eat their meat rare,which is worse:coolinoff:
Our bodies are not that different from those of animals,and their illneses may take hold on us .Cooking well may kill some bacteria, but cancerous cells are not bacteria, for example.
It is a subject to ponder.

 

[pnewton]

And some people eat their meat rare,which is worse:coolinoff:

Good advice. Everyone needs to cook their canine tumors well done. (or fried)

BTW - Fried Tumors would be a good name for a rock band.

And Tamsulosin, I am not poking fun at you, in case this is misunderstood. I just like to have fun every now and then a break up all the serious stuff. I think it helps keep the fighting and bickering down.

 

[Marfran]

Yes there are unpleasant sights we spare ourselves when we have to have these unpleasant things done. Yes, this is not the same. We can sometimes spare others, humans and animals needless if we make ourselves aware. I personally believe we should be very clear about how Christ suffered for us, unpleasant though the details are.

Absolutely.

 

[Marfran]

A colonoscopy may be deemed necesary to look inside the colon directly and diagnose possible illneses like cancer.Virtual colonoscopies are not that accurate.
Killing and eating animals for food,may not be necessary when there are other sources of nutrition.

I will give you a story.We took our dog for a check up.They took an xray and found he had cancer.It was removed sucessfuly. Think now of the dogs and other animals you are eating that most likely have illnesses,including cancer.You are in fact swallowing all those cancer cells.

Are they x-raying every cow they slaughter?
And some people eat their meat rare,which is worse:coolinoff:
Our bodies are not that different from those of animals,and their illneses may take hold on us .Cooking well may kill some bacteria, but cancerous cells are not bacteria, for example.
It is a subject to ponder.

Actually, and this is an*** aside***, the way that “meat” animals are raised today with “factory farming” techniques, is not only cruel to the animals, but because of the anti-biotics and growth hormones given to these animals, eating their meat poses ***even more ***health risks for humans than eating the meat of wild hunted animals or organically raised animals.

 

[Tamsulosin]

Good advice. Everyone needs to cook their canine tumors well done. (or fried)

BTW - Fried Tumors would be a good name for a rock band.

And Tamsulosin, I am not poking fun at you, in case this is misunderstood. I just like to have fun every now and then a break up all the serious stuff. I think it helps keep the fighting and bickering down.

I would opt for The Bloody Drip Dudes

 

[Marfran]

BTW - Fried Tumors would be a good name for a rock band.

Dude, I can’t believe you posted that ***great name ***of a band here!!! Now someone can steal it, and you won’t get the credit!!!

But if the band is*** any good ***, you can count on the fact that ***I will remember ***that it was you, the cute dude in the fire hat, that came up with the name!!!

What happened to that cute picture anyway???

 

[Marfran]

I would opt for The Bloody Drip Dudes

How about ***Carcass Eaters ***or Corpse Nibblers???

 

[pnewton]

What happened to that cute picture anyway???

My son painted this one. His school is going to enter it into our fair in the pre-K category.

Speaking of which, how about Caterpiller Airplane for a rock band?

 

[Marfran]

My son painted this one. His school is going to enter it into our fair in the pre-K category.

Speaking of which, how about Caterpiller Airplane for a rock band?

I’m sorry, I was assuming that you were a Dude. The cute kid in the fire hat is your son? I thought that was a picture of you when you were little.

Caterpillar Airplane??? That’s a great name!!! Goes with the picture your son drew. Great for the album cover!!! (Do they still have album covers??? I’m showing my age here.) pnewton, you better start a band soon and use one of these names–before someone else steals them!!! Hurry up and get your son a set of **drums **and start that band!!!

Sorry for all the*** asides***–we can resume chewing and eschewing dog meat again.

 

[Newbie2]

A colonoscopy may be deemed necesary to look inside the colon directly and diagnose possible illneses like cancer.Virtual colonoscopies are not that accurate.
Killing and eating animals for food,may not be necessary when there are other sources of nutrition.

I will give you a story.We took our dog for a check up.They took an xray and found he had cancer.It was removed sucessfuly. Think now of the dogs and other animals you are eating that most likely have illnesses,including cancer.You are in fact swallowing all those cancer cells.

Are they x-raying every cow they slaughter?
And some people eat their meat rare,which is worse:coolinoff:
Our bodies are not that different from those of animals,and their illneses may take hold on us .Cooking well may kill some bacteria, but cancerous cells are not bacteria, for example.
It is a subject to ponder.

Not so in the case of cancer. Such a condition must be communicable, and cancer is not communicable between species or within species. While the infectious agent or common-source carcinogen may be responsible for the agent which causes cancer, the cancer cells themselves are not communicable, especially between species.

The exception in same-species transmission might be one in an immunocompromised state, and there are probably a few other extremely rare exceptions.

 

[pnewton]

I’m sorry, I was assuming that you were a Dude. The cute kid in the fire hat is your son? I thought that was a picture of you when you were little.

I am. I realize that I have an excessively coarse sense of male chauvenism, but when it comes to my son, I guess I am a softy.

Okay now, go back to the dog stuff. The oven buzzed and I have to go check on my rotweiller roast anyway.

 

[severus68]

the time you spend on loving animals is time that could be spent trying to save humans…

unless you are omnipotent and can do everything you want instantly or something…

Sorry, I am not omnipotent, ha ha. I do hope I can help both human and non human animals.

 

[severus68]

i frankkly think it is kinda unChristian to be a vegan… it is unchristian because God told us to take care of our bodies… Our bodies are the temple of the Holy Spirit… and we are not to “defile” the body…

knowingly shortening your life by not eating meat is going against that principle…

and again, in Proverbs somewhere it says that its a shame not to live to be 100… something you CANNOT do if a vegan… or even a vegetarian who eats cheese and eggs, probably…

I do think you are misinformed. With respect a vegetarian/vegan life is a healthier diet and a macrobiotic vegan diet has helped cancer patients. My red blood count went up and stabilised when I became vegetarian.

My body is more of a sacred “temple” now that I don’t have rotting flesh in my gut. Where did you get this idea its unChristian please? Read one of St Paul’s letters to the Corintians on also respecting vegetarians.

It is a scientific fact that a vegetarian life is healthy, a vegan one even better. Don’t know if I want to live that long anyway, lol. Let me quote a little song:-

“Methulsah lived two thousand years,
Methulsah lived two thousand years,
But who calls that living
When no gal will give in to
No guy who is two thousand years”.

Just a little humour.

 

[severus68]

Not so in the case of cancer. Such a condition must be communicable, and cancer is not communicable between species or within species. While the infectious agent or common-source carcinogen may be responsible for the agent which causes cancer, the cancer cells themselves are not communicable, especially between species.

The exception in same-species transmission might be one in an immunocompromised state, and there are probably a few other extremely rare exceptions.

Thank goodness I am vegetarian then as I am immunocompromised. Seriously how does cancer spread to immunocompromised individuals?