Dog Meat

[Marfran]

we eat meat. Look at the way our mouth are even designed. We have teeth specifically for devouring flesh, and a digestive system designed specifically to break down animal proteins.

LOL!!! How did you manage to reverse that??? Our teeth are not designed to eat meat at all!!! That’s why a knife and a fork are needed!!! Carnivores have LARGE mouths, humans have small mouths (relative to their body size)!!! We also don’t have the claws or talons or the sharp teeth, or agility to kill prey. Our digestive system is not designed for meat either, and we have very specific trouble with meat. We must **cook **meat or the bacteria and parasites would kill us. Natural carnivores have the digestive juices and enzymes to handle the bacteria in meat. Man is the only animal that cooks its meat. Natural carnivores also have short intestines. Herbivores have very lengthy intestines to digest fibrous plant materials. Frugivores (primates) also have much longer intestines than carnivores, though somewhat shorter than herbivores. Humans are classed as omnivores because they have adapted to eat meat, and do eat meat, though they are not physiologically designed to do so. Natural omnivores posses all the traits of natural carnivores (teeth, claws, talons, short intestines, etc.) and have adapted to also eat plant materials. Examples of natural omnivores include the bear and the raccoon.

I will spare you the lengthy historial rendition of how man came to be a meat eater, but interestingly it all jives with the Bible, and that man started out picking fruit from the trees.

 

[4elise]

The food we eat TODAY is raised, grown, and manufactured, in ways that are very different, and this difference creates ethical issues and concerns that did not exist in the time of Christ.*** It is those differences***, not the similarities, that require us to consider our food choices today.

**
Exactly**

 

[Newbie2]

Ok Newbie - if you will allow me to explain please know this is not offered to be ‘preachy’

This is how I understand it… in the Readers Digest version: (I’m sure that there will be those who can clarify any errors I make )

God created man and all creation.
God placed man as stewards of creation.
Before the flood man did not eat the flesh of animals.
After the flood God permitted man to eat the flesh of animals.
Animal sacrifice in the Old Testiment was a huge leap from what was done by the surrounding peoples who still sacrificed people to their gods.

Jesus too - to ensure that we would always understand that he was both truly man and truly God - felt hunger, ate, became tired, slept, and yes he ate lamb at Passover and fish even after his resurrection.

Jesus used bread and wine at the last supper to become for us His body and blood - He did not take the lamb and raise it saying eat this lamb - it is the bread which becomes the body of Christ our Pascal Sacrifice - replacing the need to sacrifice anything else living to God

Over the years many people have eaten foods which include animal protein.
In recent years the production of animal protein in developed countries has been - for the most part - driven by profits - this driving force has allowed animals to be mistreated, the environment to be damaged, individuals living and working in and around these CAFOs have become ill and suffered - including increases in spontaneous abortions as a result of the pollution…

At the same time, advances in the availability and ease of moving to a healthy plant based diet is also available; SO ---- given all these factors, it seems to me and many other to be a move that people of faith should, at the very least consider - reducing consumption of meat, poultry, fish, dairy, eggs and replacing this with a plant based diet.

When we made this move we didn’t do it all at once - making such a major change has it’s challenges, not the least of which living in a culture which is very meat/dairy centered.

So - hope that didn’t sound preachy - and if there is something specific you want explained - I’ll give it a try - and I know there are others here also willing to help.

Blessings,

Very well put, thank you.

LOL!!! How did you manage to reverse that??? Our teeth are not designed to eat meat at all!!! That’s why a knife and a fork are needed!!! Carnivores have LARGE mouths, humans have small mouths (relative to their body size)!!! We also don’t have the claws or talons or the sharp teeth, or agility to kill prey. Our digestive system is not designed for meat either, and we have very specific trouble with meat. We must **cook **meat or the bacteria and parasites would kill us. Natural carnivores have the digestive juices and enzymes to handle the bacteria in meat. Man is the only animal that cooks its meat. Natural carnivores also have short intestines. Herbivores have very lengthy intestines to digest fibrous plant materials. Frugivores (primates) also have much longer intestines than carnivores, though somewhat shorter than herbivores. Humans are classed as omnivores because they have adapted to eat meat, and do eat meat, though they are not physiologically designed to do so. Natural omnivores posses all the traits of natural carnivores (teeth, claws, talons, short intestines, etc.) and have adapted to also eat plant materials. Examples of natural omnivores include the bear and the raccoon.

Not exactly true. Our incisors are relatively sharp, designed to eat meat. Otherwise, our incisors would be flat like herbivores. Just because we don’t have the physical abilities to kill prey like other predators do doesn’t mean we are not to eat meat. We have the intelligence to be able to catch and kill meat using tools.

Actually, herbivores have relatively short intestines and large forestomaches for fermentation of plant materials. Humans lack such, and are not designed for a specifically or better put exclusively plant-based diet. Herbivores can get energy out of non-protein nitrogen based (fibrous) plant material. Humans lack this capability. Saying or suggesting that we are not built to eat meat is simply incorrect.

Now if you’re suggesting that we developed evolutionarily from herbivores to omnivores, that may be the case. However, claiming that we as a species have adapted to eat meat then saying that we are physiologically designed not to do so doesn’t make any sense. We’ve adapted to eat meat but we are not designed to do so? Or are you referring to our alleged “original design” as herbivores?

I will spare you the lengthy historial rendition of how man came to be a meat eater, but interestingly it all jives with the Bible, and that man started out picking fruit from the trees.

 

[distracted]

Pretty simply. Jesus took a fish, he ate it.

If you are asking me what I think about the consumption of meat, I think that when the bible talks over and over again about how we can eat meat, and even laid down what kinds of meat not to eat, that God is okay with us taking animals for food.

I also believe eating meat is acceptable in new testament standards as shown in Acts chapter 10:9-15

" 9About noon the following day as they were on their journey and approaching the city, Peter went up on the roof to pray. 10He became hungry and wanted something to eat, and while the meal was being prepared, he fell into a trance. 11He saw heaven opened and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners. 12It contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles of the earth and birds of the air. 13Then a voice told him, “Get up, Peter. Kill and eat.”
14"Surely not, Lord!" Peter replied. “I have never eaten anything impure or unclean.”

15The voice spoke to him a second time, “Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.” "

I believe that even in mordern times eating meat is acceptable because of this section:

“Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.”

I do feel that we are called to be good stewards and avoid eating anything that has been inhumanely slaughtered, but al I also admit that some people can’t afford the extra cost of organic food, or do not have the land to raise their own meat. There are health benefits to doing this as well. Animals who have been inhumanely treated usually taste foul, and the slaughter process and unclean living conditions usually lead to higher rates of foodborne illness. I was raised on meat that we had raised ourselves, and now I am in a financial situation where buying organic meat is too costly, and buying organic or overpriced health foods and supplements is unreasonable on my income. I have no moral problems eating meat from some factories, but I avoid places such as KFC who are known for using inhumane methods. Aside from that, most commercial meat tastes worse.

THANKS… especially for the part about Peter and the dream he had… which was God trying to tell him something (and He wasn’t above using animals and the eating of them to do that).

this is what really gets me about vegans… who claim to be Christian.

they see all this biblical evidence and it doesn’t seem to sink in that its in God’s plan that we eat meat… even when you tell them that those who do so live longer… (and they live WAY longer… )

weird… I guess some people just love animals more than humans… more than even their very selves…

Jesus told us to give up everything for HIM… not for animals… He told us to love other humans as we love ourselves… not animals…

 

[distracted]

What I take from this that Jesus eat to demonstrate that after the resurrection He was alive in body and spirit, rather than an endorsement of broiled fish.

what i take from this is that Jesus never said anything against eating animals…

 

[severus68]

Just some points I would like to make. Whether Christ ate meat or fish is something I brought up. It has nothing to do why people become vegetarian or vegan. It is not really relevant to the subject matter of this thread so my apologies.

The visions in Acts Chap 11 and 12 are not meant to be taken literally. They are with regard to the Jewish suspiicion ,dislike etc of non Jews, even Peter’s.Please read the commentaries if you wish. I am not a Bible scholar but I rather think I am right about this.

A vegetarian diet is a healthy diet, It is healthier than a meat eating diet. A vegan diet is healthier still, you just have to make sure you get your nutrients from different foods. It is not easy becoming a vegetarian and harder still becoming vegan. I stopped eating red meat for many years before I became vegetarian. We are not judging anyone, how can we rightfully do that. Christ taught us not to. However, we also think it that it right to “promote” a diet we sincerely believe is better for us and the rest of God’s creation.

 

[pnewton]

I did not write off Peter’s vision easily or otherwise. How did you come up with the literal aspect

I stated why this passage also has a literal meaning. Christianity is not a Jewiish sect. Not only were Gentiles accpted, but they were also not required to follow Jewish dietary laws. The meats once considered unclean are now considered clean. From the council of Jerusalem, James speaking at the Church in Jerusalem:

Acts 15:19 - 20

Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:

But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

I agree with Marfan in that I do not know why this verse is used so often, though. These are much better.

1 Cor 8:8 But meat commendeth us not to God: for neither, if we eat, are we the better; neither, if we eat not, are we the worse.

1 Timothy 1:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

 

[Roman_Army]

Is it just me, or does anyone else think that this thread has gone on long enough and should come to a close? It is not immoral in itself to eat dog meat, it is immoral to break the civil law that prohibits it. It is also not immoral to eat meat from slaughtered Factory farmed animals, at least the Magisterium has never condemned people eating such meat. The guilt rests on the company producing the meat. It is not reasonable nor prudent to request that everyone be vegans. If you want to be a vegan or vegetarian, that’s great, I applaud you for that. Good for you.

 

[Newbie2]

Is it just me, or does anyone else think that this thread has gone on long enough and should come to a close?.

No, we’re just beating a dead horse. Wait a minute…mmmmmm…horse meat…

 

[Ione]

Is it just me, or does anyone else think that this thread has gone on long enough and should come to a close? It is not immoral in itself to eat dog meat, it is immoral to break the civil law that prohibits it. It is also not immoral to eat meat from slaughtered Factory farmed animals, at least the Magisterium has never condemned people eating such meat. The guilt rests on the company producing the meat. It is not reasonable nor prudent to request that everyone be vegans. If you want to be a vegan or vegetarian, that’s great, I applaud you for that. Good for you.

Why close it? If you’re not interested in it go ahead and go on to another thread. Just because you are done with it doesn’t mean everyone else is.

 

[Roman_Army]

no, we’re just beating a dead horse. Wait a minute…mmmmmm…horse meat…

lol.

 

[Marfran]

No, we’re just beating a dead horse. Wait a minute…mmmmmm…horse meat…

Dude, are u really a veterinarian, or is that your cover story??? You have a wicked sense of animal humor!!!

 

[Marfran]

The guilt rests on the company producing the meat.

I don’t agree. Consumers have a lot of power and should wield it. If there is something unconsionable about a business or manufacturing practice, if there is an ingredient that is hazardous, dangerous, questionable–consumers make their disapproval known by not buying the product and the company/corporation either listens to the consumers or loses business.*** We ***have to make these companies honest, and we have a responsibility to do so.

I think that the consumer of mistreated meat bears equal guilt with the actual hand that committed the abuse. The consumer, by his purchases, ensures that the mistreatment continues, and continues, and continues…

Does anyone remember BGH (bovine growth hormone). Consumers balked at the idea of it in their milk. The dairy industry tried to convince consumers that it was safe, but consumers wouldn’t buy it. Even Walmart pulled the BGH milk from the shelves. Consumers vote with their grocery dollars–and we have more power to change things than we realize.

 

[Marfran]

Now if you’re suggesting that we developed evolutionarily from herbivores to omnivores, that may be the case. However, claiming that we as a species have adapted to eat meat then saying that we are physiologically designed not to do so doesn’t make any sense. We’ve adapted to eat meat but we are not designed to do so? Or are you referring to our alleged “original design” as herbivores?

Dude, what have u been smokin’??? We did not develop physiologically from herbivores to omnivores. There is no known case of this (and that’s kind of the point). We developed socially and behaviorally, not physiologically. It is a social adaptation. Our closest biological relative is not an herbivore, it is a frugivore (primate). You’ve been hangin’ out with the horses for too long!!!

 

[Roman_Army]

I don’t agree. Consumers have a lot of power and should wield it. If there is something unconsionable about a business or manufacturing practice, if there is an ingredient that is hazardous, dangerous, questionable–consumers make their disapproval known by not buying the product and the company/corporation either listens to the consumers or loses business.*** We ***have to make these companies honest, and we have a responsibility to do so.

I think that the consumer of mistreated meat bears equal guilt with the actual hand that committed the abuse. The consumer, by his purchases, ensures that the mistreatment continues, and continues, and continues…

Does anyone remember BGH (bovine growth hormone). Consumers balked at the idea of it in their milk. The dairy industry tried to convince consumers that it was safe, but consumers wouldn’t buy it. Even Walmart pulled the BGH milk from the shelves. Consumers vote with their grocery dollars–and we have more power to change things than we realize.

I agree, but immorality is rampant in all industries. If we went around boycotting all companies doing such immorality then we’d be starving, naked, bored out of our minds, depressed, and living on the street. In some cases a boycott is effective, but in others it’s not. Certainly, in the case of BGH it was successful since everyone was scared for their health and children’s health. They cared nothing about how the animals were treated in the dairy farms.

 

[4elise]

We are not judging anyone, how can we rightfully do that. Christ taught us not to. However, we also think it that it right to “promote” a diet we sincerely believe is better for us and the rest of God’s creation.

Well said.

 

[4elise]

Newbie2;5741535:

That’s a much different thing from questioning (implicitly) that Jesus ever ate meat.

severus68;5740
Its a free world. I will dance and sing and preach if I want to, thank you. Why so testy? No one on this thread has claimed that the Church says it is a sin to eat meat and this
pertains to the subject matter of this thread. The matter of Christ having eaten meat is not dogma and I can wonder and ponder surely.

Giving one’s views is not preaching or you can be said to be doing the same.

To clarify, it was the last sentence in mpewton’s I ageed with and I do not eat.

on your reply. #222… again… it looks like you are replying to me - that again was not my post

 

[4elise]

1 Timothy 1:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

 

[Marfran]

***For those of you questioning whether we are designed to eat meat (there have been several of you in this thread) I would like to share an excerpt from brother Dan Piraro’s article “Food or Foe?” ***

"…The deal is that while humans are *technically *omnivores and can survive on almost anything, it isn’t really our nature to eat dead animals.

You can see this in the most obvious of ways, by looking at us naked. This is scientific research, I swear.

Put yourself in a forest or jungle without clothes or tools, the way we started and the way other animals manage to this day. With your relatively clumsy two-legged running style and slow reflexes, it is highly unlikely you’ll ever catch a live animal, no matter how sick it is. If you don’t believe me, pop down to the local park and see how close you can get to a squirrel. (You may consider doing this with your clothes on.) Back to the forest, assuming you can catch something, like say, a three-legged, blind, and deaf cow that hasn’t already been eaten by an actual predator, how will you be killing it? With your mighty, razor-sharp claws or your spiney fangs and powerful jaws? Punching and shouting isn’t usually enough to kill a bovine. I think you get the idea.

Another simple and obvious fact pointing to your ideal diet is the fact that the sight and smell of a dead animal is abhorrent to humans. This is nature’s way of telling you, “Don’t eat that.” Natural predators are attracted to the smell of a rotting animal; they think it smells yummy and will move heaven and earth to find out where it is hiding. Toss a dead fish under your couch and see what your dog or cat does. And with their completely different set of digestive juices, they can gnaw on a maggoty carcass all day long and never throw up. You’re having trouble not throwing up just reading this.

Plants, on the other hand, have few defenses against our amazing picking and chewing capabilities, move through our systems quickly and effortlessly, and give us all of the vitamins, fiber, and, yes, protein, that we need to be big and strong like the apes we are. Ask a gorilla if he feels weak and anemic from his lack of roast beef.

My diet is not perfect by any means but I have all the strength and energy that I need without a single molecule of animal protein in nearly a decade. Plus, I don’t spend the majority of my time on the toilet wondering if this will be my lucky day. Before I pop something into my mouth these days, I ask myself one question: how would I fend against this thing if it surprised me while walking naked in the woods?"

**Thanks, Bro!!! **You can read the whole article in the Sept-Oct 2009 issue of VegNews.

 

[4elise]

I agree, but immorality is rampant in all industries.** If we went around boycotting all companies doing such immorality** then we’d be starving, naked, bored out of our minds, depressed, and living on the street. In some cases a boycott is effective, but in others it’s not. Certainly, in the case of BGH it was successful since everyone was scared for their health and children’s health. They cared nothing about how the animals were treated in the dairy farms.

If we ALL **went around boycotting all companies doing such immorality **WE COULD MAKE THEM CHANGE THE WAY THEY DO BUSINESS - we could make it a better world today and a better one for our children and their children!!