Dog Meat

[Marfran]

If we ALL **went around boycotting all companies doing such immorality **WE COULD MAKE THEM CHANGE THE WAY THEY DO BUSINESS - we could make it a better world today and a better one for our children and their children!!

TOTALLY RIGHT ON, Sistah 4elise!!!

 

[pnewton]

Should I infer that you then believe by adding this quote from Timothy

 

[severus68]

Is it just me, or does anyone else think that this thread has gone on long enough and should come to a close? It is not immoral in itself to eat dog meat, it is immoral to break the civil law that prohibits it. It is also not immoral to eat meat from slaughtered Factory farmed animals, at least the Magisterium has never condemned people eating such meat. The guilt rests on the company producing the meat. It is not reasonable nor prudent to request that everyone be vegans. If you want to be a vegan or vegetarian, that’s great, I applaud you for that. Good for you.

Well, thank you for your views. Really it is for those interested in the subject to decide whether to go on discussing it. Perhaps you can start a new thread on a subject you are interested in and we may well feel inclined to discuss too.

 

[severus68]

Good for those Irish saints.

 

[severus68]

I agree, but immorality is rampant in all industries. If we went around boycotting all companies doing such immorality then we’d be starving, naked, bored out of our minds, depressed, and living on the street. In some cases a boycott is effective, but in others it’s not. Certainly, in the case of BGH it was successful since everyone was scared for their health and children’s health. They cared nothing about how the animals were treated in the dairy farms.

Shouldn’t we as Christians be on the forefront telling these companies they are wrong. Ghandi got his people to stop using English imports for cloth and started a whole new home industry. This was a tiny (oh vegetarian) non Christian who did so much without violence.

 

[4elise]

No one here is **commanding **to abstain from meat or arguing that eating meat is evil. There are some animal rights folks that go that far, but not here. For those that say meat is murder, then yes, that goes to far. It is not an elevation of the animal, but a lowering of the human.

There are many reasons one can choose a vegetarian diet. The false doctrine that Timothy is speaking of is when we equate eating meat with sin.

Thank you for the clarification.

 

[KEVIN_WILCOX]

Personally I think the acceptance / detestation of consumption of dog has a great deal to do with anthropomorphism. The dog is perhaps closer to us than any other animal (in terms of utility and companionship). With urbanization comes a seperation from creation - for example linking milk with cow.
In Scripture there is no rule nor regulation prohibiting eating of dog.

In history the dog has guarded the flock, the home and Jesus is happy when a woman tells him the scraps of food are given to house dogs under the table. The dog is not seen as an animal considered unclean.

Would I eat dog? It depends upon the circumstance.

 

[4elise]

Personally I think the acceptance / detestation of consumption of dog has a great deal to do with anthropomorphism. The dog is perhaps closer to us than any other animal (in terms of utility and companionship). With urbanization comes a seperation from creation - for example linking milk with cow.
In Scripture there is no rule nor regulation prohibiting eating of dog.

In history the dog has guarded the flock, the home and Jesus is happy when a woman tells him the scraps of food are given to house dogs under the table. The dog is not seen as an animal considered unclean.

Would I eat dog? It depends upon the circumstance.

The OP has a specific circumstance to be considered… were you able to see the video?

 

[KEVIN_WILCOX]

The OP has a specific circumstance to be considered… were you able to see the video?

No - would like to, I’m a member of Animal Liberation.
I have probably eaten more than I realize, poverty is a dietary predicament. I am grateful for what I am given, and don’t ask too many questions. I think money gives us that.
Have I bitten off more than I can chew?

 

[KEVIN_WILCOX]

The OP has a specific circumstance to be considered… were you able to see the video?

Have now seen the video - not pleasant. How then is one to live as every action causes suffering to another creature, from ploughing the ground to butching dog. Ethical dilemma - the Buddha was once a bird and starved to death so as not to injure a fish. But can one live off roadkill ?

 

[severus68]

Have now seen the video - not pleasant. How then is one to live as every action causes suffering to another creature, from ploughing the ground to butching dog. Ethical dilemma - the Buddha was once a bird and starved to death so as not to injure a fish. But can one live off roadkill ?

Buddha was a noble man who gave up all his wealth, everything and taught and practised helping the poor etc. Preached non violence. Never said he was God though some people treat him as such. Never heard of this bird thing but would be glad to learn.

Don’t have to eat any flesh, there is grain, fruit and vegetables.

Not all use of animals is wrong, I believe. Animals can work with us to help us and we have to treat them humanely. They do amuse us sometimes, mine do but we should not force them to do things to amuse us.

What is “Animal Liberation” ? I would think all I have said would be known to someone who talks about Buddha and belongs to such a group.

 

[KEVIN_WILCOX]

Buddha was a noble man who gave up all his wealth, everything and taught and practised helping the poor etc. Preached non violence. Never said he was God though some people treat him as such. Never heard of this bird thing but would be glad to learn.

Don’t have to eat any flesh, there is grain, fruit and vegetables.

Not all use of animals is wrong, I believe. Animals can work with us to help us and we have to treat them humanely. They do amuse us sometimes, mine do but we should not force them to do things to amuse us.

What is “Animal Liberation” ? I would think all I have said would be known to someone who talks about Buddha and belongs to such a group.

I think it was bad form of me to involve Buddha in this as this is a Christian forum - I was thinking Passover and the rivers and streams around Jerusalem would have been flowing from the animal sacrifice, at the same time as the Lamb of God was slaughtered, but guess there would be encouragement for this sort of thing. They were a lot more familiar with gruesome in those days. A lot more animal death than we witness today.
I was also thinking of fish, how they are caught and bludgeoned to death.
Unless we are confronted we seldom think of where our food comes from, and how it reaches us.
Dog has more of an impact because in our lives they hold a special place, form a close bond.
Whatever we do can be the cause of suffering; in the production of grain, fruit and vegetables insects are killed, and wildlife is robbed of its home (and starves to death, for example in the making of palm/vegetable oil). In killing is size related to guilt?
Should ends justify the means, through utilitarian morality?
Animal Liberation is similar to R.S.P.C.A. only a lot more pro-active.

 

[Ione]

***For those of you questioning whether we are designed to eat meat (there have been several of you in this thread) I would like to share an excerpt from brother Dan Piraro’s article “Food or Foe?” ***

"…The deal is that while humans are *technically *omnivores and can survive on almost anything, it isn’t really our nature to eat dead animals.

You can see this in the most obvious of ways, by looking at us naked. This is scientific research, I swear.

Put yourself in a forest or jungle without clothes or tools, the way we started and the way other animals manage to this day. With your relatively clumsy two-legged running style and slow reflexes, it is highly unlikely you’ll ever catch a live animal, no matter how sick it is. If you don’t believe me, pop down to the local park and see how close you can get to a squirrel. (You may consider doing this with your clothes on.) Back to the forest, assuming you can catch something, like say, a three-legged, blind, and deaf cow that hasn’t already been eaten by an actual predator, how will you be killing it? With your mighty, razor-sharp claws or your spiney fangs and powerful jaws? Punching and shouting isn’t usually enough to kill a bovine. I think you get the idea.

Another simple and obvious fact pointing to your ideal diet is the fact that the sight and smell of a dead animal is abhorrent to humans. This is nature’s way of telling you, “Don’t eat that.” Natural predators are attracted to the smell of a rotting animal; they think it smells yummy and will move heaven and earth to find out where it is hiding. Toss a dead fish under your couch and see what your dog or cat does. And with their completely different set of digestive juices, they can gnaw on a maggoty carcass all day long and never throw up. You’re having trouble not throwing up just reading this.

Plants, on the other hand, have few defenses against our amazing picking and chewing capabilities, move through our systems quickly and effortlessly, and give us all of the vitamins, fiber, and, yes, protein, that we need to be big and strong like the apes we are. Ask a gorilla if he feels weak and anemic from his lack of roast beef.

My diet is not perfect by any means but I have all the strength and energy that I need without a single molecule of animal protein in nearly a decade. Plus, I don’t spend the majority of my time on the toilet wondering if this will be my lucky day. Before I pop something into my mouth these days, I ask myself one question: how would I fend against this thing if it surprised me while walking naked in the woods?"

**Thanks, Bro!!! **You can read the whole article in the Sept-Oct 2009 issue of VegNews.

I like that Marfran! Good post!:clapping:

 

[Ione]

poverty is a dietary predicament.

Even when I have went to the food bank for food I have turned down the meat. And I have been told very nastily that it *will not *be replaced with anything else. My response is “that’s fine”.

 

[Marfran]

No one here is **commanding **to abstain from meat or arguing that eating meat is evil. There are some animal rights folks that go that far, but not here. For those that say meat is murder, then yes, that goes to far. ** It is not an elevation of the animal, but a lowering of the human. **

There are many reasons one can choose a vegetarian diet. The false doctrine that Timothy is speaking of is when we equate eating meat with sin.

I think the “lowering of the human” occurs by the human’s own actions–violence, cruelty, lack of compassion and mercy.

“Equating ***eating ***meat…” It’s not the eating of, it is the acts of violence and the inflicted suffering preceeding the point where the living, sentient being is turned into meat. **Trying to make these arguments about “the eating of” is skirting the real issues. **Meat eaters want to ***divorce ***themselves from the preceeding process and the consequences (crops feed to agri-animals could go directly to feed starving peoples instead–giving up meat could help to end world hunger and could dramatically reduce soil and water pollution, etc.)

Can one really turn a blind eye, and divorce oneself from the consequences (to both the living and dying animals, to the health of the planet, and to the misappropriation of resources which affects other humans and their ability to attain food) of MODERN meat production/consumption?

**The *act of eating *is not as much the issue as is all that preceeds and follows. **

 

[Marfran]

Even when I have went to the food bank for food I have turned down the meat. And I have been told very nastily that it *will not *be replaced with anything else. My response is “that’s fine”.

You are a good soul!!! Life is not about being easy, and sometimes the road and the choices are difficult. I feel sorry for the wealthy who shall never know hunger, shall want for nothing…for they often have the hardest lessons to learn here in this life.

 

[Marfran]

***For those of you questioning whether we are designed to eat meat (there have been several of you in this thread) I would like to share an excerpt from brother Dan Piraro’s article “Food or Foe?” ***

"…The deal is that while humans are *technically *omnivores and can survive on almost anything, it isn’t really our nature to eat dead animals.

You can see this in the most obvious of ways, by looking at us naked. This is scientific research, I swear.

Put yourself in a forest or jungle without clothes or tools, the way we started and the way other animals manage to this day. With your relatively clumsy two-legged running style and slow reflexes, it is highly unlikely you’ll ever catch a live animal, no matter how sick it is. If you don’t believe me, pop down to the local park and see how close you can get to a squirrel. (You may consider doing this with your clothes on.) Back to the forest, assuming you can catch something, like say, a three-legged, blind, and deaf cow that hasn’t already been eaten by an actual predator, how will you be killing it? With your mighty, razor-sharp claws or your spiney fangs and powerful jaws? Punching and shouting isn’t usually enough to kill a bovine. I think you get the idea.

Another simple and obvious fact pointing to your ideal diet is the fact that the sight and smell of a dead animal is abhorrent to humans. This is nature’s way of telling you, “Don’t eat that.” Natural predators are attracted to the smell of a rotting animal; they think it smells yummy and will move heaven and earth to find out where it is hiding. Toss a dead fish under your couch and see what your dog or cat does. And with their completely different set of digestive juices, they can gnaw on a maggoty carcass all day long and never throw up. You’re having trouble not throwing up just reading this.

Plants, on the other hand, have few defenses against our amazing picking and chewing capabilities, move through our systems quickly and effortlessly, and give us all of the vitamins, fiber, and, yes, protein, that we need to be big and strong like the apes we are. Ask a gorilla if he feels weak and anemic from his lack of roast beef.

My diet is not perfect by any means but I have all the strength and energy that I need without a single molecule of animal protein in nearly a decade. Plus, I don’t spend the majority of my time on the toilet wondering if this will be my lucky day. Before I pop something into my mouth these days, I ask myself one question: how would I fend against this thing if it surprised me while walking naked in the woods?"

**Thanks, Bro!!! **You can read the whole article in the Sept-Oct 2009 issue of VegNews.

I like that Marfran! Good post!:clapping:

Apparently so do a lot of other people. A large number of people are taking Dan and I up on the challenge. Every day the local police here are snagging streakers in their birthday suits as they chase squirrels in the park across the street from my house. (I’m getting a lot of heat about this from the cops, so if anybody else wants to try this, go to a **different **park–not the one across the street from my house!!!)

So far we have not lost one squirrel to this experiment. I have my statue of St. Francis facing the park, and I reward all squirrels who participate in this experiment on ***human agility/bare hunting ability ***with a peanut (sometimes two).

 

[4elise]

Even when I have went to the food bank for food I have turned down the meat. And I have been told very nastily that it *will not *be replaced with anything else. My response is “that’s fine”.

That is commitment my friend.

I think that, in response to your post those of us who chose to be vegetarian / vegan should step up our contributions of non meat protein to food banks… I think I’ll go this afternoon and get extra veggie chili and peanut butter for our parish food bank - and will try to remember to do this exact thing on a more regular basis -

 

[4elise]

Have now seen the video - not pleasant. How then is one to live as every action causes suffering to another creature, from ploughing the ground to butching dog. Ethical dilemma - the Buddha was once a bird and starved to death so as not to injure a fish. But can one live off roadkill ?

I agree all our choices may present ethical dilemma - In our Catholic faith we believe that we (people) are created in the image of a loving God, our creator, and as such we have also been placed as stewards over creation. For some of us we also recognize that this stewardship requires that we omit meat / dairy / eggs / fish / honey / from our diet and omit leather / silk / from our purchases as well… this is due to the way these are produced today - in factory farms / the amount of pollution / the nature of use of resources / the ned for land that causes the destruction of rain forests / impact on communities…etc.

So… trying to seek the greater good… this is the choice many of us have made. We have a group here Catholic Vegetarians and Vegans forums.catholic-questions.org/group.php?groupid=90 - and you are most welcome to join us.

Peace
*
P.S. - Animal Liberation? There is a group called the Animal Liberation Front that has done some very drastic violent things in an effort to protect animals - evening being willing to do so risking the life of people - this is something I can not sanction at any time, because people are created in the image of God*

 

[severus68]

I think it was bad form of me to involve Buddha in this as this is a Christian forum - I was thinking Passover and the rivers and streams around Jerusalem would have been flowing from the animal sacrifice, at the same time as the Lamb of God was slaughtered, but guess there would be encouragement for this sort of thing. They were a lot more familiar with gruesome in those days. A lot more animal death than we witness today.
I was also thinking of fish, how they are caught and bludgeoned to death.
Unless we are confronted we seldom think of where our food comes from, and how it reaches us.
Dog has more of an impact because in our lives they hold a special place, form a close bond.
Whatever we do can be the cause of suffering; in the production of grain, fruit and vegetables insects are killed, and wildlife is robbed of its home (and starves to death, for example in the making of palm/vegetable oil). In killing is size related to guilt?
Should ends justify the means, through utilitarian morality?
Animal Liberation is similar to R.S.P.C.A. only a lot more pro-active.

Thank you for your post and the info. We can only do the best we can but there is no excuse for deliberate cruelty like dogs being tortured to make the meat sweeter.

Thought I knew about the main animal charities, is it based in the US? I will read about it.