Dog Meat

[pnewton]

FYI -

I found this rather interesting eletter from a few years back

catholic.com/newsletters/kke_041005.asp

I looked at the thread that was closed. It was only half as long as this. I think congratulations are in order all around for maintaining a civil and orderly discussion.

 

[4elise]

FYI -

I found this rather interesting eletter from a few years back

catholic.com/newsletters/kke_041005.asp

I looked at the thread that was closed. It was only half as long as this. I think congratulations are in order all around for maintaining a civil and orderly discussion.

I second your congratulations on the ability of the majority for maintaining a civil and orderly discussion - for some this has meant just not replying to the outrageous comments of some we have become familiar with on previous threads.

I read this article that you provided the link to months ago and actually found it offensive.

I find vegetarians and vegans to be inconsistent in their principles and inconsiderate in their practices. The chief problem is that, while both disapprove of killing animals, they approve of killing plants.

From Catholic theology we know that man, animals, and plants all have souls. Man’s soul is a spirit and therefore is immortal. The souls of animals and plants, as St. Thomas Aquinas noted, are material principles. They die when the animals and plants die.

Thus there is a symmetry between animals and plants. There is no good reason to treat them differently. It is false to say that animals must be protected but that plants are expendable.

I believe most of us who have taken even the most basic biology course are able to make the distinction between plants and animals, and even if this were written tong in cheek - this seemed to me to be very condescending at the least and truly offensive and crude the worst.

The first time I read this there were comments posted and several people had indicated that although they were not vegetarians or vegans they were suspending their CAF membership because of the offensive nature of the post. I don’t see those comments there any longer.

 

[RosalieM]

This is such a horrific subject. In China they also skin cats and dogs ALIVE and use their fur.
Thanks a lot for bringing up something so vile…and so close to the feast of St. Francis of Assisi, who called ALL ANIMALS his BROTHERS and SISTERS. Pope John Paul II announced that animals DO have souls, animal souls.
Please don’t argue this. Google it.
It is a crime in the U.S. to kill a dog or a cat. Why do you think? These animals are our domesticated friends and companions. They are family members. They are not raised to be eaten. Why do people have to eat everything in sight? If you say hunger, there are alternatives to dogs and cats for heaven’s sake. I can’t believe I’m actually responding to this post; but I love animals and I can’t stand it when people don’t see how they are beloved creations of Our Lord.
I can NOT subscribe to this thread, by the way. Also, personally, I eat poultry and fish sometimes but the other critters I love too much.
p.s. Don’t forget to bring your pets to the blessing of the animals at your parish.

 

[pnewton]

Pope John Paul II announced that animals DO have souls, animal souls.
Please don’t argue this. Google it.

As do plants, according to Thomas Aquinas. This is old teaching. The souls of animals, plants and people are all different though.

Oh, and I will disagree when I see something misleading. The simple statement you made could be taken to mean that the soul of animals is like the soul of people. This is something the Church does not teach. If we think we should treat animals as people because they have souls, then it is just as sensible to include plants. I think that was the point of the eletter. I am sorry if it was offensive, though.

 

[Marfran]

This is such a horrific subject. In China they also skin cats and dogs ALIVE and use their fur.
Thanks a lot for bringing up something so vile…and so close to the feast of St. Francis of Assisi,** who called ALL ANIMALS his BROTHERS and SISTERS.** Pope John Paul II announced that animals DO have souls, animal souls. Please don’t argue this. Google it.
It is a crime in the U.S. to kill a dog or a cat. Why do you think? These animals are our domesticated friends and companions. They are family members. They are not raised to be eaten. Why do people have to eat everything in sight? If you say hunger, there are alternatives to dogs and cats for heaven’s sake. I can’t believe I’m actually responding to this post; but I** love animals and I can’t stand it when people don’t see how they are beloved creations of Our Lord. **
I can NOT subscribe to this thread, by the way. Also, personally, I eat poultry and fish sometimes but the other critters I love too much.
p.s. Don’t forget to bring your pets to **the blessing of the animals **at your parish.

RosalieM: Thank you for your post. I am totally on your side–except for the part about eating poultry and fish (I don’t do that). I started the OP and will continue to bring up “vile” subjects until they no longer exist. Looking the other way does not help end cruelty. Looking directly at it, and having to face it, often helps people to action. And it is action, not reticence, that is needed to end these abuses.

Marfran AKA ***Sister Mary Francis ***

 

[pnewton]

RosalieM: Thank you for your post. I am totally on your side–except for the part about eating poultry and fish (I don’t do that). I started the OP and will continue to bring up “vile” subjects until they no longer exist.

Let me also add that this is an excellent topic for moral theology. It shows how where a smaller disagreement on one point can result in a divergnce of actions elsewhere. I have to say that the vegitarians posting here are sure a lot different than the PETA crowd. The motives are pure and come from a basis in Catholic doctrine.

Most can even appreciate a good meat joke.

 

[Marfran]

FYI -
I found this rather interesting eletter from a few years back
catholic.com/newsletters/kke_041005.asp

I looked at the thread that was closed. It was only half as long as this. I think congratulations are in order all around for maintaining a civil and orderly discussion.

Yes, this is old news. Ask KK how he feels about vegetarians & vegans now (5 years after these comments), now that CAF has the Catholic Vegetarians & Vegans Group which is **the most active **group at CAF, and boasts 125 members.

I believe most of us who have taken even the most basic biology course are able to make the distinction between plants and animals, ***and even if this were written tong in cheek - this seemed to me to be very condescending at the least and truly offensive and crude the worst. ***

The first time I read this there were comments posted and several people had indicated that although they were not vegetarians or vegans they were suspending their CAF membership because of the offensive nature of the post. I don’t see those comments there any longer.

I believe that he rescinded his comments at a later date, saying he was just joking, and wasn’t it obvious??? Well, no, I guess that vegans and vegetarians just don’t have the same sense of humor as corpse eaters!!!

 

[KEVIN_WILCOX]

Whilst I subscribe to lack of harm to animals (i.e. their death for our consumption) I am troubled by diet in the Bible: The O.T. assents to the eating of meat; and the N.T. tells of Jesus serving it as food (although I don’t recall reading he ate it). Did Jesus lack wisdom? Did he not know what he was doing? He could have prescribed a vegetarian diet - as had the founder of the Jains to his followers in India (pre-Christian era).
I’m interested in feedback. What do others think?

 

[Marfran]

Let me also add that this is an excellent topic for moral theology. It shows how where a smaller disagreement on one point can result in a divergnce of actions elsewhere. I have to say that the vegitarians posting here are sure a lot different than the PETA crowd. The motives are pure and come from a basis in Catholic doctrine.

Most can even appreciate a good meat joke.

I am **not **defending PETA, but pnewton, do you actually know anyone from the “PETA crowd”??? When people write about the PETA crowd it seems like stereotyping to me. No, I don’t agree with running around naked in Spain to bring attention to the sport of bullfighting, but bullfighting is a bad thing.

I think if you are Catholic and/or Christian there are a lot of other animal “rights” and animal welfare groups to look to–and **there are a lot of good Christian and Catholic writings on the subject **by Christian and Catholic authors. I guess I do get my dander up a bit, when an animal issue is brought to the table and everyone screams PETA, and everyone uses what they ***don’t like about PETA ***to try and put an end to **any **animal discussion. (To be honest, I’m not all that up on PETA–and I think that even PETA tries to distance itself from the works of Peter Singer. I did once post a PETA video withourt realizing it was from PETA–but the subject matter spoke for itself–yet the fact that it was from PETA was distracting to the discussion.)

BTW pnewton: caught any squirrels lately???

 

[Marfran]

As do plants, according to Thomas Aquinas. This is old teaching. The souls of animals, plants and people are all different though.

Oh, and I will disagree when I see something misleading. The simple statement you made could be taken to mean that the soul of animals is like the soul of people. This is something the Church does not teach. If we think we should treat animals as people because they have souls, then it is just as sensible to include plants. I think that was the point of the eletter. I am sorry if it was offensive, though.

St. Thomas Aquinas is my least favorite saint. He is responsible for the anti-animal sentiment in the Christian church. Ironically his ideas about animals are not derived from the Bible, they come from Aristotle. I think that St. Francis’ attitudes about animals are more reflective of Christian values.

It is taught in the Bible that humans, animals, and plants have souls. (They are all life.) Humans have immortal souls, animals have mortal souls, and plants have (I forget the term–maybe someone else can supply it) a general, mass type of soul/consciousness. (And if I’m wrong on the plant thing, you can shoot me–but I’ve gotta run without lookin’ that one up…) A kind of living energy…

 

[Newbie2]

I am **not **defending PETA, but pnewton, do you actually know anyone from the “PETA crowd”??? When people write about the PETA crowd it seems like stereotyping to me. No, I don’t agree with running around naked in Spain to bring attention to the sport of bullfighting, but bullfighting is a bad thing.

I think if you are Catholic and/or Christian there are a lot of other animal “rights” and animal welfare groups to look to–and **there are a lot of good Christian and Catholic writings on the subject **by Christian and Catholic authors. I guess I do get my dander up a bit, when an animal issue is brought to the table and everyone screams PETA, and everyone uses what they ***don’t like about PETA ***to try and put an end to **any **animal discussion. (To be honest, I’m not all that up on PETA–and I think that even PETA tries to distance itself from the works of Peter Singer. I did once post a PETA video withourt realizing it was from PETA–but the subject matter spoke for itself–yet the fact that it was from PETA was distracting to the discussion.)

BTW pnewton: caught any squirrels lately???

The PETA POV tends to the extreme. I don’t think it’s stereotyping, and I don’t recall where they’ve distanced themselves from Peter Singer.

 

[Marfran]

Whilst I subscribe to lack of harm to animals (i.e. their death for our consumption) I am troubled by diet in the Bible: The O.T. assents to the eating of meat; and the N.T. tells of Jesus serving it as food (although I don’t recall reading he ate it). Did Jesus lack wisdom? Did he not know what he was doing? He could have prescribed a vegetarian diet - as had the founder of the Jains to his followers in India (pre-Christian era).
I’m interested in feedback. What do others think?

Meat eating in Biblical times was less frequent than one might think. It was reserved for special occassions, and the poor did not eat it with any frequency. There was no refrigeration back then, and the meat had to be eaten immediately and could not be saved for later use, so if an animal was killed, the meat was often shared among many families.

We do not know with any certainty what Jesus ate, but his diet, whether the typical Meditteranian diet of his time, or not, was not the purpose of his incarnation here on Earth.

Many of the issues of our MODERN age for the abstinence from eating meat, are more complicated than just not wanting to harm animals. (And today the manner in which factory farmed animals are raised, and how they suffer, is even more abominable and barbaric than the “meat” of even just 50 years ago.)

Biblically, we are to respect and be thankful for our food–and this is hardly the case TODAY. How many people say grace before unwrapping their McDonald’s Quarter Pounder w/cheese??? How many care, or even think about the cows that are ground up to make the burger???

 

[Marfran]

The PETA POV tends to the extreme. I don’t think it’s stereotyping, and I don’t recall where they’ve distanced themselves from Peter Singer.

I read “Thanking the Monkey” by Karen Dawn. She is a secular activist from California. She distances herself from Peter Singer (and is not afraid to say why), but acknowledges the light that he has shed on the subject.

I think that I need to learn more about PETA, so that I can answer all the stuff that comes up in these threads. I prefer to spend my time with the Christian & Catholic organizations (like Catholic Concern for Animals). I do believe that PETA also promotes the works of a Catholic priest, Fr. John Dear. I have not read his work.

Newbie2: Do you know anything about him??? Fr. John Dear?

 

[distracted]

Some countries are starting an experiment . In Ghent, Belgium, the Deputy Mayor,
Tom Balthazar, has established Thursdays as meatless days.This veggie day is suppossed to create awareness of the effects of eating meat in the population’s health and the enviromental effects of raising animals for food.Even schools must obey this
request, although it is classified as voluntary.It is a start.I personally applaud his idea.

.

sounds like more control by Big Brother…

don’t tell me w hat i should eat…

my body belongs to God who created it and God says to eat meat… (Passover…)

 

[distracted]

St. Thomas Aquinas is my least favorite saint. He is responsible for the anti-animal sentiment in the Christian church. Ironically his ideas about animals are not derived from the Bible, they come from Aristotle. I think that St. Francis’ attitudes about animals are more reflective of Christian values.

…

who says his ideas came from Aristotle? I’v heard so many false things from people who aren’t Catholic about the saints… I don’t believe what some unCahtolic nonCatholic says about much of anything… unless i research it myself and find out it is true…

obviously i can’t belive catholics either… since so many thought BHO was /is so grreat…

St. Thomas Aquinas used to be MY least favorite saint also…

but uh… if what you say is true…

i like him better now…

 

[Tamsulosin]

The University of Melbourne in Australia discovered as a result of a recent new study that diets heavy in beef, lamb and pork raise the risk of vision loss in later life.
If you eat meat 10 times a week, you are 50% more likely to develop macular degeneration, a condition that may lead to blindness.:hypno:

 

[distracted]

This is such a horrific subject. In China they also skin cats and dogs ALIVE and use their fur.
:

how in the h-- do you skin an animal that is alive, kicking and screaming???

give me a freaking break…

 

[distracted]

It is a crime in the U.S. to kill a dog or a cat. Why do you think? :

---

uh… because its not an unborn child??? ***

 

[distracted]

RosalieM: Thank you for your post. I am totally on your side–except for the part about eating poultry and fish (I don’t do that).

of course not…

you’re so holy you are out there tyring to save every animal you can… wouldn’t think of eating a chicken… even if it made you healthier… yes you are out there 24/7 probably, fighting for animals…

by posting as much as possible on a rather dull subject that has reached its limit in… well, new things to say…?

while you could be protesting at an abortion clinic…

or doing something else 2 save the humans you seem to hate…

you don’t like yourself much do you?

i mean, you are a humanoid, whether you like it or not… and humans need to eat meat to be healthy… but you would rather die than see an animal die… hmmm… strange… no comprendo…

those animals are going to die anyhow… if we didn’t kill them and eat them the world would be over-run with them… (health hazard if nothing else)

you’re probably thankful that so many abortions are happening… population control…

less meat-eaters to have to fight with…

 

[Tamsulosin]

On that note, I am off to cook the brussel sprouts and the lentils for my hubby’s dinner.
Talk to you all tomorrow, God willing,Tam

Almond peach dessert