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billcu1
Guest
I hope this is the right forum. What is dogma in the church? How does it fit in church teachings? What teachings are there other than dogma?
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bzkoss236
Guest
Take the teaching on Limbo for instance. It has been Church teaching (less talked about now), but was never defined as doctrine, and therefore isn’t considered dogma, but it was taught for a time. I’m sure there are others.
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Steveabrous
Guest
I am not a theologian, so take what I say with that in mind.
This is how I see it:
Dogmas’s are absolutely true and must be believed by all Catholics.
An example would be the holy trinity, or Jesus is true God and true man.
Then there are beliefs that are acceptable. You can believe but you don’t have to.
an example would be The apparition at Fatima.
Then there are beliefs that are condemned. You are forbiden to believe
An example would be Reincarnation.
This is how I see it:
Dogmas’s are absolutely true and must be believed by all Catholics.
An example would be the holy trinity, or Jesus is true God and true man.
Then there are beliefs that are acceptable. You can believe but you don’t have to.
an example would be The apparition at Fatima.
Then there are beliefs that are condemned. You are forbiden to believe
An example would be Reincarnation.
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Mary_Ellen
Guest
From the Catholic Encyclopedia at NewAdvent.org:
… according to a long-standing usage a **dogma **is now understood to be a truth appertaining to faith or morals, revealed by God, transmitted from the Apostles in the Scriptures or by tradition, and proposed by the Church for the acceptance of the faithful. It might be described briefly as a revealed truth defined by the Church — but private revelations do not constitute dogmas, and some theologians confine the word defined to doctrines solemnly defined by the pope or by a general council, while a revealed truth becomes a dogma even when proposed by the Church through her ordinary magisterium or teaching office. A dogma therefore implies a twofold relation: to Divine revelation and to the authoritative teaching of the Church. …
I hope this helps.
… according to a long-standing usage a **dogma **is now understood to be a truth appertaining to faith or morals, revealed by God, transmitted from the Apostles in the Scriptures or by tradition, and proposed by the Church for the acceptance of the faithful. It might be described briefly as a revealed truth defined by the Church — but private revelations do not constitute dogmas, and some theologians confine the word defined to doctrines solemnly defined by the pope or by a general council, while a revealed truth becomes a dogma even when proposed by the Church through her ordinary magisterium or teaching office. A dogma therefore implies a twofold relation: to Divine revelation and to the authoritative teaching of the Church. …
I hope this helps.
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DavidFilmer
Guest
I absolutely assure you that this is the right forum.
Some theologians use the term “dogma” to indicate the teaching that is irreformable (meaning it cannot ever be changed, ie infallible).
It is part of Church teaching, but it is not recognized by the Church as distinct from non-dogmatic teaching, as far as the Faithful are concerned. Every Catholic is expected to assent to ALL Church teaching. The question of whether a particular teaching is dogmatic is of interest only to a small number of theologians. To the guy in the pew, it does not matter in any way whatsoever.
Some theologians use the term “doctrine” to define teachings that are not “dogma.” The Catholic Church does not make any such distinction, and uses the terms interchangeably.
That’s because it does not matter. Popes *can *teach infallibly (dogma), but often do not (doctrine). Ecumenical Councils *can *teach infallibly, but often do not. But Catholics must accept both.
Any “doctrine” can be elevated to “dogmatic” status at any time. Every “dogma” was once a “doctrine.”
But, to the guy in the pew, it makes no difference whatsoever.
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billcu1
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Well I’m not the guy on the pew. I would love to be a ThD. I wonder about mariology. I heard it was an option or at least marian sacramentals are. There are 4 things I understand to it. 1) perpetual virginity 2) immaculate conception 3) assumption and something else that slips my mind. Btw according to the church did Jesus have any brothers or sisters? I believe the church teaches no. But I know protestants that believe that he did because the Bible mentions bros. and sis.
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aemcpa
Guest
- Divine maternity.
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billcu1
Guest
So a doctrine is like doxocology?
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DavidFilmer
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So would I. But, in the meantime, we are both guys in the pew. And even if we were both ThD’s, the distinction would (probably) still be meaningless to us both. There are thousands of ThD’s out there, but only a few care one way or another. If you or I (as a ThD) was appointed to the Confraternity of Christian Doctrine as a research analyst, we would care (because it’s our job). Otherwise, I cannot think of a single reason why a layperson (or even a deacon or priest) would care at all.
It DOES NOT MATTER to a layperson, or a deacon, or a priest, whether this doctrine or that doctrine has been declared infallibly. We are expected to assent to ALL Catholic doctrine.
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DonMack
Guest
DavidFilmer… As one of the guys in the pew I can think of reasons to care. Many things that are ‘teachings of the Church’ are also described as optional and others are not. For me that’s kind of important. It was only after I learned the ‘dogmatic’ teachings about the nature of Jesus that I realized some of my ideas about him bordered on heretical thinking. If a teaching is optional why would I want to try to convince someone of the Truth. Knowing what is Dogma keeps me from slipping into a Church of One. Knowing what is Dogma stops me from becoming a ‘cafeteria Catholic’. Knowing what is optional keeps me being a non thinking robot, but maybe that’s just me.
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aemcpa
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Doctrinal teachings aren’t optional just because they aren’t dogmatically defined.
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AmbroseSJ
Guest
Here’s an example of what some Catholics would call “optional” beliefs; That the Virgin Mary died before her Assumption.
The fact of the matter is that Pope John Paul II taught that the Virgin Mary did indeed die before her Assumption, and said that this was always taught in the Church, and that it is the belief of the entire Eastern Church as well.
Enter the Only-infallible-doctrines-believed-Catholic. The one who says, just because a Pope says so, does not make it infallible, and therefore it is optional. Also no infallible teaching says so, further making it optional.
Now some theologians do debate this matter, but that does not automatically mean the doctrine is optional.
For Catholics in the pew (including Priests, Religious, Catholic writers etc.) the teaching is that Mary did die before the Assumption. The only ones who debate this matter are theologians. Unfortunately, today, especially in the modern West’s Catholic culture, we have a virtual explosion of Only-infallible-doctrines-believed-Catholics.
The fact of the matter is that Pope John Paul II taught that the Virgin Mary did indeed die before her Assumption, and said that this was always taught in the Church, and that it is the belief of the entire Eastern Church as well.
Enter the Only-infallible-doctrines-believed-Catholic. The one who says, just because a Pope says so, does not make it infallible, and therefore it is optional. Also no infallible teaching says so, further making it optional.
Now some theologians do debate this matter, but that does not automatically mean the doctrine is optional.
For Catholics in the pew (including Priests, Religious, Catholic writers etc.) the teaching is that Mary did die before the Assumption. The only ones who debate this matter are theologians. Unfortunately, today, especially in the modern West’s Catholic culture, we have a virtual explosion of Only-infallible-doctrines-believed-Catholics.
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DonMack
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From your perspective, exactly where can I find these “Doctrinal teaching” that I must believe to be considered a proper Catholic. Preferably a list that doesn’t include any of the optional beliefs. Once I get the must haves down, I’ll then consider the optional ones.
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AmbroseSJ
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The best place to look is the Catechism.
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aemcpa
Guest
You’ll “consider” them? How big of you to deign to consider whether the Church that Almighty God Himself established to lead you into all truth is succeeding in its task.
If the Church teaches it as true, it’s true. There are no “optional” teachings of the Church. There are only things on which the Church has spoken and things on which the Church has not spoken.
Is there something specific you are looking to reject?
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DonMack
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aemcpa… wow… did I cause that response? I am truly sorry.
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thistle
Guest
Limbo for infants has NEVER been a Church teaching. It has only ever been a theological hypothesis.
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bzkoss236
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But it was taught to people, none-the-less.
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guanophore
Guest
The Catholic Catechism is the best summary of where you can find the doctrinal Teaching of the Church.
Your affiliation shows that you are Catholic. Do you think you might be considered and “improper” Catholic?
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