Doing the Minimum

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Musicadmirer said:
A priest was heard on Catholic radio saying that the church will be pared down to the Catholics who would be willing to die for the faith. It’s unfortunate, but as society falls further into the deep abyss of sin, it appears that is happening. In every situation, quality is much more important than quantity.
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we must be courageous. i am the only one with veil in the parish i go to. of course i go to many different ones. i kneel before going up to the priest. i also refuse to receive communion from women.

here we have a cardinal who we can count on.

youtube.com/user/RealCatholicTV#p/a/u/0/9SlHyRhpwcE
 
Sailor_Kenshin said:
Holier-than-thou types drive people away from religion in general and this Church in particular. We should be appealing to people, drawing them in, without straying from Orthodoxy.

Holier-than-thou types actually accomplish the opposite of evangelization. Again, an observation on the part of an outsider who swam the Tiber not because someone was kicking me in the butt to ‘be holy,’ but because someone gently led me there.
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what is driving people away is the ugliness in teh Church. when i see the beauty of the Sanctuary of God, i dont leave His Temple, when i see the ugly, i cant wait to be out of there. God deserves more than what we have been given to Him. the problem is that we are doing things for ourselves more than for God. it is all about what we want.
search and see what God required from the Jews.
 
wisdomseeker said:
what is driving people away is the ugliness in teh Church. when i see the beauty of the Sanctuary of God, i dont leave His Temple, when i see the ugly, i cant wait to be out of there. God deserves more than what we have been given to Him. the problem is that we are doing things for ourselves more than for God. it is all about what we want.
search and see what God required from the Jews.
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Problem is…sometimes the ugliness I see…is in the people in the Church who feel that they know better then anyone else 🤷
 
wisdomseeker said:
what is driving people away is the ugliness in teh Church. when i see the beauty of the Sanctuary of God, i dont leave His Temple, when i see the ugly, i cant wait to be out of there. God deserves more than what we have been given to Him. the problem is that we are doing things for ourselves more than for God. it is all about what we want.
search and see what God required from the Jews.
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I’m sure sometimes it is. But how is drawing people to the Church ‘doing things for ourselves?’ Is it not written that we are called to bring people to Christ?
 
Sailor_Kenshin said:
I’m sure sometimes it is. But how is drawing people to the Church ‘doing things for ourselves?’ Is it not written that we are called to bring people to Christ?
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to bring people to Christ we must waterdown the Faith and make the Church ugly?

you have no idea the amount of people leaving the Church.

just yesterday, i was talking to a friend and he was telling me that a minister from the episcopal and a minister of the presbyterian church went to puerto rico. he told me that the Catholics left the church to follow them. now they have big congregations full of Catholics who are leaving the Faith. the reason they are leaving is because they are not being tought the Faith and the outward signs are no longer there.
we are loosing our Faith but people continue to be blind about it. the more the CC looks more like protestants churches, people cannot recognize the difference and think they are all the same. the destruction is within and not from teh outside.

people just refuse to see.
 
wisdomseeker said:
to bring people to Christ we must waterdown the Faith and make the Church ugly?

you have no idea the amount of people leaving the Church.

just yesterday, i was talking to a friend and he was telling me that a minister from the episcopal and a minister of the presbyterian church went to puerto rico. he told me that the Catholics left the church to follow them. now they have big congregations full of Catholics who are leaving the Faith. the reason they are leaving is because they are not being tought the Faith and the outward signs are no longer there.
we are loosing our Faith but people continue to be blind about it. the more the CC looks more like protestants churches, people cannot recognize the difference and think they are all the same. the destruction is within and not from teh outside.

people just refuse to see.
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Did you bother reading any of my posts in this thread?
 
Robert_Burns said:
We can take our Church back and our religion back. Just as the publican kneeled I kneel for communion. Let it be our protest of the world. Recieve on the tongue not because you have to - because you protest this lack of discipline. Its s simple thing. But we can return the Church to discipline - one Catholic at a time. It has worked for 2000 years and it will work today.

May GOD bless you all - be a better Catholic today than you were yesterday

Pax
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I couldn’t agree more with the thrust of your post.

Interesting that we in society pay for discipline (diet programs, gym memberships, classroom education, etc.) yet if the Church were to impose any discipline (veils, fast, meat absinence, COTT, etc.) there is a threat of not going to Church anymore.

And you’re right. Those people who just look at what’s “approved” are missing the entire bigger picture. Many people like the EF just because it has more built-in disciplines. The Latin, the genuflections, the proper side of the altar, the bowing to Christ, to the Missal, the kissing of the altar, the signs of the cross. That discipline alone can lead to a better adoration of God and isn’t that the bottom line of why we even go to Church?
 
ProVobis said:
And you’re right. Those people who just look at what’s “approved” are missing the entire bigger picture. Many people like the EF just because it has more built-in disciplines. The Latin, the genuflections, the proper side of the altar, the bowing to Christ, to the Missal, the kissing of the altar, the signs of the cross. That discipline alone can lead to a better adoration of God and isn’t that the bottom line of why we even go to Church?
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But, does the one hour or so for Mass change someone’s belief? I don’t think so. You can have all of the smells and bells you want, but if someone doesn’t believe, well, they still don’t believe.

The public relations issue here is how will you convince normal everyday Catholics that they are not going* backwards* if the TLM were instituted at every parish? Until there is an answer to this question you will get nowhere.

People just don’t believe, or don’t believe a lot. That is the problem.
 
Musicadmirer said:
A priest was heard on Catholic radio saying that the church will be pared down to the Catholics who would be willing to die for the faith. It’s unfortunate, but as society falls further into the deep abyss of sin, it appears that is happening. In every situation, quality is much more important than quantity.
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I’m not sure what you mean by “quality is much more important than quantity.” That makes it sound like a “good” thing that the Church is losing members. Please clarify.

Alan
 
AlanFromWichita said:
I’m not sure what you mean by “quality is much more important than quantity.” That makes it sound like a “good” thing that the Church is losing members. Please clarify.

Alan
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Well doesnt St Paul tells the people to not associate with the impious? to stay away from those who corrupt the Faith?
 
PaulinVA said:
But, does the one hour or so for Mass change someone’s belief? I don’t think so. You can have all of the smells and bells you want, but if someone doesn’t believe, well, they still don’t believe.

The public relations issue here is how will you convince normal everyday Catholics that they are not going* backwards* if the TLM were instituted at every parish? Until there is an answer to this question you will get nowhere.

People just don’t believe, or don’t believe a lot. That is the problem.
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Two things here. First, there is lex orandi, lex credendi, the law of prayer, law of belief. Prayer includes more than what comes out of one’s mouth. It includes rubrics, incense, body language, etc. Second, I included meat abstinence and fasting, something we have little or no discipline of. Those and other things extend past being in Church, I would think.
 
wisdomseeker said:
to bring people to Christ we must waterdown the Faith and make the Church ugly? I don’t think anyone said that.

you have no idea the amount of people leaving the Church.
Yes–I do…cause I was one of them.

just yesterday, i was talking to a friend and he was telling me that a minister from the episcopal and a minister of the presbyterian church went to puerto rico. he told me that the Catholics left the church to follow them. now they have big congregations full of Catholics who are leaving the Faith. the reason they are leaving is because they are not being tought the Faith and the outward signs are no longer there.
we are loosing our Faith but people continue to be blind about it. the more the CC looks more like protestants churches, people cannot recognize the difference and think they are all the same. the destruction is within and not from teh outside. This makes NO sense…people are leaving the church because it looks like a protesant church…so they leave and GO to protestanism??? Now I do love a beautiful ornate church…but your statement makes no sense to me. I’m spent 20+ years in protestant churches…and they do not look like my church…here’s a tip…the crucifix gives it away every time…

people just refuse to see. well, that may be well and true…for me AS WELL as you.
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I know that I just LOVE to be told that my worship is less reverent and not as good and that because I do what is allowed that so and so doesn’t agree with–that I am doing just the bare minimum. Ya…that’s the way to win people over…👍 you know people see this in-fighting and they think, “why on earth would I ever want to be Catholic…nothing I do will ever be good enough for some people.”

Maybe we should concentrate on teaching people who DON’T see the reasons for doing what is required…such as regular Sunday attendance, receiving in a state of grace, going to confession…those things.🤷 I’m just saying…:rolleyes:
 
ProVobis said:
Two things here. First, there is lex orandi, lex credendi, the law of prayer, law of belief. Prayer includes more than what comes out of one’s mouth. It includes rubrics, incense, body language, etc. Second, I included meat abstinence and fasting, something we have little or no discipline of. Those and other things extend past being in Church, I would think.
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I don’t think the people attending the Ordinary Form who do not believe or do not follow Church teaching are going to be swayed by body language or whatever. The same with abstinence. The issue is where we are now.

Just watch the uproar when the new translation is used. People will be up in arms. And that’s just changes in English.

I wonder if we should just start anew with the kids. Isn’t that a terrible thought, that we might have lost a few generations of Catholics?
 
Sailor_Kenshin said:
There will always be those who are eager to tell you how much holier they are than you. Just a general observation.
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Just as there will always be those who ignore the Catholic Maxims “lex orandi, lex credendi, lex vivendi”

Pax
 
PaulinVA said:
Just watch the uproar when the new translation is used. People will be up in arms. And that’s just changes in English.
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They already are up in arms in Africa. (They implemented the changes last year.) But I understand the Catholic faith is flourishing there.
 
Sailor_Kenshin said:
You point being?
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The point being that there is nothing wrong with trying your very best to become a Saint even if it means listening to catcalls from those who claim to be Catholic but whose actions say something very different. Hense = lex “vivendi” Some of you say that Actions mean nothing. I disagree completely. Especially when it comes to the example each one of us sets for Catholic youth. Who are our future.
 
Robert_Burns said:
The point being that there is nothing wrong with trying your very best to become a Saint even if it means listening to catcalls from those who claim to be Catholic but whose actions say something very different. Hense = lex “vivendi” Some of you say that Actions mean nothing. I disagree completely. Especially when it comes to the example each one of us sets for Catholic youth. Who are our future.
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I see your point—but didn’t Christ come for us sinners, not just saints?
 
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