Doing the Minimum

[Robert_Burns]

The point is, thank GOD the Catholic Church is a hospital for sinners, not just a club for saints.

We are called as Sinners to become Saints when Judged. But we are called to repentance so that becomes a reality. We are not called to do the minimum. Certainly the Publican was more justified than the Pharisee in the Temple - but why was he justified. Because although a Sinner - he came to temple humble and in search of forgiveness for his Sins. Whereas the Pharisee came to Temple to tell everyone who would listen that he did this or did that but not because he sought forgiveness for his Sins. So his actions were not justification. When Jesus wrote on the ground and all the people one by one dropped their stones and the Adultress escaped stoning - Jesus forgave her many sins on the Spot. But what he didnt say was to go back Adultery. He said go and Sin no more.

Yes the Church is a hospital for Sinners - but the Sinner must Strive to be a Saint - not Strive to keep being a sinner. Therein lies the Difference.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

In all bluntness, if I had been met with this very attitude when I first timidly explored the idea of becoming Catholic, it would have run me off.

Permanently.

And I am NOT alone. I know for a fact many other people feel the same way.

So thank God He put people in my path who were gentle, encouraging, appealing, and led me home by example.

 

[Robert_Burns]

In all bluntness, if I had been met with this very attitude when I first timidly explored the idea of becoming Catholic, it would have run me off.

Permanently.

And I am NOT alone. I know for a fact many other people feel the same way.

So thank God He put people in my path who were gentle, encouraging, appealing, and led me home by example.

And if I were to tell you its ok to sin as much as you want its no big deal because GOD is merciful then you should have become a Lutheran.

 

[Robert_Burns]

And if I were to tell you its ok to sin as much as you want its no big deal because GOD is merciful then you should have become a Lutheran.

And BTW - Being Catholic doesnt guarantee a person Heaven. This Earth is not our home. Heaven is. And anyone who thinks they will attain heaven by refusing to repent their sins is only fooling themselves.

pax

 

[AlanFromWichita]

The point being that there is nothing wrong with trying your very best to become a Saint even if it means listening to catcalls from those who claim to be Catholic but whose actions say something very different. Hense = lex “vivendi” Some of you say that Actions mean nothing. I disagree completely. Especially when it comes to the example each one of us sets for Catholic youth. Who are our future.

1. Who said actions mean nothing?
2. Trying your very best to become a saint is going to have to include a great deal more than behaving just so during Mass. It’s going to take spiritual development, acts of mercy, and/or other practices.

 

[Robert_Burns]

1. Who said actions mean nothing?

Annabelle and Sailor

1. Trying your very best to become a saint is going to have to include a great deal more than behaving just so during Mass. It’s going to take spiritual development, acts of mercy, and/or other practices.

Robert : Agreed - hense this thread calling Catholics to Action.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

And if I were to tell you its ok to sin as much as you want its no big deal because GOD is merciful then you should have become a Lutheran.

Excuse me?

Point out to me where I said it’s no big deal to sin. Please quote where I said actions mean nothing.

Thank GOD I did not run into someone like you when I was seeking to swim the Tiber.

 

[AlanFromWichita]

Robert : Agreed - hense this thread calling Catholics to Action.

Nice. Now you got my attention!

Well I have a call to action. Let me know if you think it’s off-topic and I’ll leave it at this. I like to challenge Catholics to learn about contemplative prayer forms, such as Lectio Divina includes. Why? Because the CCC says that one’s prayer life should go further than vocal or meditation, into a prayer that is truly union with God. (CCC 2708)

Reference: “Expressions of Prayer” from CCC

Alan

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

Robert : Agreed - hense this thread calling Catholics to Action.

You agree that I said actions mean nothing?

Please quote where I said that.

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

Robert : Agreed - hense this thread calling Catholics to Action.

When you quoted Alan…you add some words in there…misleading…:tsktsk:

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

We are called as Sinners to become Saints when Judged. But we are called to repentance so that becomes a reality. We are not called to do the minimum. Certainly the Publican was more justified than the Pharisee in the Temple - but why was he justified. Because although a Sinner - he came to temple humble and in search of forgiveness for his Sins. Whereas the Pharisee came to Temple to tell everyone who would listen that he did this or did that but not because he sought forgiveness for his Sins. So his actions were not justification. When Jesus wrote on the ground and all the people one by one dropped their stones and the Adultress escaped stoning - Jesus forgave her many sins on the Spot. But what he didnt say was to go back Adultery. He said go and Sin no more.

Yes the Church is a hospital for Sinners - but the Sinner must Strive to be a Saint - not Strive to keep being a sinner. Therein lies the Difference.

Ahh…but your idea of the minimum is VERY different then my idea of the minimum. So…you can judge that I’m just doing the minimum but pardon me but I don’t care what YOU think. See–there is the difference.

 

[LittleSoldier]

Robert : Agreed - hense this thread calling Catholics to Action.

I’d like the post number where Sailor Kenshin stated that actions mean nothing, please. Thank you.

And Annabelle too, please. Thank you again.

 

[LittleSoldier]

I couldn’t agree more with the thrust of your post.

Interesting that we in society pay for discipline (diet programs, gym memberships, classroom education, etc.) yet if the Church were to impose any discipline (veils, fast, meat absinence, COTT, etc.) there is a threat of not going to Church anymore.

And you’re right. Those people who just look at what’s “approved” are missing the entire bigger picture. Many people like the EF just because it has more built-in disciplines. The Latin, the genuflections, the proper side of the altar, the bowing to Christ, to the Missal, the kissing of the altar, the signs of the cross. That discipline alone can lead to a better adoration of God and isn’t that the bottom line of why we even go to Church?

I agree!! We should ALL wear veils!!

 

[LittleSoldier]

One of the problems I see with anything is the pervasive attitude of doing the bare minimum and then expecting the optimal results. The simple truth is - the more effort one puts into anything the better the results. Now - applied to religion we all see the same things today as Catholics. Media against the Church to the point of ridicule and defamation. Catholic morality under attack on all fronts. Decency defiled. Catholics embracing societal norms whether they conflict with Church Doctrine or not. And at that point in time when maximum effort is needed to combat all of these things - we see a sudden lax attitude towards the many disciplines of the Church.

We no longer have to dress up for Mass. We no longer have to Kneel for Communion and we are allowed to recieve in the hand. Women for the most part wear the veil only if they feel like it. In many parrishes not at all. All of these things are a discipline. Holy Mother the Church instituted these things over the centuries for a reason.

I am not going to argue with people over the fact that they are “allowed to do these things” Or to entertain arguments that try to claim “I know more than the Pope” or other fruitless strawman arguments. But instead - forward the following opinion.

We are examples to Our Precious Catholic Youth. Like it or not - our generation has failed. Blame whomever you want for it - but we have. We have not been strong enough in resisting the world - the world has permeated even into our Clergy - with the wiles of the Devil as recent scandals attest. So the time has come to be Catholic again.

Why must we wait for the Church to say - discipline yourselves? Can we not see the correlation between this lack of discipline and the embrace of all these immoralities of dress and behavior where sins of the flesh are rampant even amongst Catholics? Denial of Catholic Truths? Denial of Catholic morals? to the point of Child abuse by some Clergy or even Abortion?

Some say the EF is not the answer. I say they are wrong. The EF is the answer if the Catholics even in the OF want to start kneeling for holy communion - not because they have to - but because they want to for GOD and to give good example to the youth who are the Priests of tomorrow. To Dress modestly. to live temperately. To have large Catholic families. and most importantly to subjugate the world the flesh and the devil to Almighty GOD in every aspect of their lives.

We can take our Church back and our religion back. Just as the publican kneeled I kneel for communion. Let it be our protest of the world. Recieve on the tongue not because you have to - because you protest this lack of discipline. Its s simple thing. But we can return the Church to discipline - one Catholic at a time. It has worked for 2000 years and it will work today.

May GOD bless you all - be a better Catholic today than you were yesterday

Pax

We can take our Church back!!! Oy vey! The Church is the Body of Christ, not something we can decide to tinker with when we don’t like what’s going on. We don’t own God! We don’t own the Church!!!

:bigyikes:

 

[LittleSoldier]

And BTW - Being Catholic doesnt guarantee a person Heaven. This Earth is not our home. Heaven is. And anyone who thinks they will attain heaven by refusing to repent their sins is only fooling themselves.

pax

So are you saying that a person with venial sins on his/her soul will not attain heaven? If so, I’m afraid you’re a bit confused; that is, if I understand your post correctly. Most people who end up in heaven probably died with venial sins on their souls. That is what Purgatory is for.

There is only one sin that God will not forgive and that is a sin against the Holy Spirit. If I am incorrect someone please correct me because I don’t want to state anything that is wrong. A sin against the Holy Spirit is the refusal to atone for a mortal sin and that is a guarantee of hell.

There is a big difference in the outcome when we are discussing venial vs. mortal sins.

 

[Stylites]

I would love to kneel for Communion but there are no railings, and I can’t get down OR up without one.

I would also love to receive on the tongue but no local church has even a napkin to prevent the Host from falling by accident.

I can dress a certain way but that doesn’t prevent people from attending in what amounts to their underwear.

Even when we want to do better, it seems sometimes there are road blocks.

Yet these roadblocks are all in the mind. A person can be really humble inside, or want to make a big show of it. A person can be careful when taking communion, or be absert-minded. A person can choose to keep their eyes upon the Lord, or upon everyone else’s clothing.

 

[LittleSoldier]

Yet these roadblocks are all in the mind. A person can be really humble inside, or want to make a big show of it. A person can be careful when taking communion, or be absert-minded. A person can choose to keep their eyes upon the Lord, or upon everyone else’s clothing.

Lol, I put your last point into my posts for awhile and just stopped doing it! It was something like: “Please don’t stare at my clothes during Mass. We are here to attend to the Lord, not to look at my attire” or something like that.

What is bare minimum for one can be absolute maximum for another. There are an awful lot of extremely poor people who travel up and down the west coast of the US. They come through the town where I live. They have no homes or perhaps if they’re lucky enough to have a bike and a backpack that is their home. Maybe they might have a tent. They have no money. They are bedraggled and tired yet they come to Mass. Obviously they are not dressed the way some people would like. Too bad. They are at Mass and they are welcome.

Others do the traveling by bike for fun but still they have been out in the rain (it does rain a lot in western Oregon) and it shows. But they are there at Mass. So am I supposed to stare at them and judge them by their appearance or am I supposed to keep my eyes, heart, and soul where they belong - attending to the Lord?

I know the answer. Thanks for bringing this up.

Sailor, I can’t kneel down or get up without a Communion rail either and we don’t have one. I understand. And I would have problems receiving Communion on the tongue, also. I would hate to have it fall out. I don’t know what is done in a case like that but I know it’s taken very seriously.

God bless you both!

 

[AlanFromWichita]

I’ve just decided that if I am distracted by another’s clothing during Mass, then that means I was just tested and failed the test. Catches my eye for a moment … no big deal. Catches my attention … that’s different.

If I cannot focus on God enough to quit looking at how other people are dressed during Mass, then how am I to walk through life outside of Mass, focused on God?

When I play music during Communion I can get distracted looking at all the pretty outfits people have when they walk next to me on the way back to their pews, and if I did so I’d mess up and everybody would know it. The only difference for someone not playing music, is if they get distracted from Mass itself nobody might notice except the person with the oogling eyes.

Alan

 

[ProVobis]

When I play music during Communion I can get distracted looking at all the pretty outfits people have when they walk next to me on the way back to their pews, and if I did so I’d mess up and everybody would know it. The only difference for someone not playing music, is if they get distracted from Mass itself nobody might notice except the person with the oogling eyes.

Hi Alan.

Musicians seem to be of a different breed altogether. It seems a fly or mosquito can be sitting on their noses and they wouldn’t flinch. How do they do that?

 

[AlanFromWichita]

Hi Alan.

Musicians seem to be of a different breed altogether. It seems a fly or mosquito can be sitting on their noses and they wouldn’t flinch. How do they do that?

Panic is what works for me.

Lose your place during a hymn once and you’ll never want to do it again.