Doing the Minimum

[Robert_Burns]

So what is the minimum when attending Mass? Walking up to the priest for Communion while swaggering, singing a rock song or whatever in one’s head, not praying, not keeping one’s hands together but swinging them around knocking them into other people, wearing a tee-shirt with any sort of non-religious meaning on it or one with holes and stains (although it is not our place to judge a person for such an action because we don’t know why the person is wearing that particular piece of clothing), receiving Communion because that’s what you do when you go to Mass but not understanding why or attempting to understand why, receiving Communion with a soul riddled with sin…I guess I mean that one can be at Mass and make a slight attempt to listen and pray a bit, but in a lazy sort of way and wishing one were somewhere else. It’s the same with the readings, the homily, the Offertory…we can be there or we can be there are really participate.

I don’t know what the maximum is except maybe just to do the absolute best I can. But we have to remember we are receiving GOD! I actually feel it would be appropriate to lie flat down on the floor, face down, subjugating myself to God who, through His Love and Compassion, is allowing Himself to be consumed by me - one who is so little and unworthy. His Passion is such a gift to us. GOD - the God of the universe is giving Himself to me? ME?? Who am I to deserve such a gift? He not only died for me, but is giving Himself to me in the form of His body? The wonder of it amazes me. It is so divine, holy, and precious that it is really beyond my capability to understand. It’s like infinity. It’s so loving. I’m trying to put my feelings down here and I don’t know how to do it. But to me it’s like the best gift I ever received from a fellow human being is infinitely smaller than the gift God gives me during Communion.

I will do the following in order to do more than the minimum and I hope I learn how to do even more:

(1) Get to Mass earlier (I’m never late but I don’t have much time to pray once I get to church before the Mass starts).

(2) Learn new prayers. It’s always good to use our own words but, like reading poetry, reading prayers that people who have become saints (or even not) have written can open one’s mind, heart, and soul to ideas and concepts that one has not even considered before. We go to college to learn and every class I ever took required reading at least one textbook. Why stop there? I’m going to read and read and read other people’s prayers and contemplations and I will learn how to pray better myself.

(3) I mentioned contemplation. I should contemplate more, both in church and at home. I’ve always wanted to have a little place in my house for a shrine with a crucifix, some candles to light for personal intentions, flowers, and a small fountain. But I’ve never done it. I don’t mean something huge or gaudy. I mean a small area where I can contemplate and pray.

I would also like to have a garden area for contemplation. I have a memorial garden already but I admit that because I’m ill I let it go to pot. That is frustrating to me. I’ve seen people who have gardens that just cry out for contemplation. What better place to say the Rosary (excepting church, of course)?

(4) Listen to more Christian music. It’s true that it usually is not Catholic music, but many times it helps to clear my head, to pray, and some of it is actually very good.

(5) I need to try harder. I need to actually do these things and more instead of making a list and then not taking the time and effort to actually follow through. It’s amazingly easy to “talk the talk” but I also need to “walk the walk.”

These are my ideas for myself. Both the minimum and the maximum differ for different people. I’m disabled and in a lot of pain. Yesterday I could not walk. So certainly my situation is different from a person who is physically healthy, yet that same person can have other problems that interfere with doing more than the minimum.

But I hope this post helps. Oh, there is one more thing I can do:

(6) Ask God to help me do more than the minimum. Ask God to help me increase my faith and to do the absolute best that I can. And ask Mary to pray for me.

Robert : Thats the spirit - Great post. Thats what I was looking for. thank you for sharing it.

Pax

 

[3Sanctus]

But, does the one hour or so for Mass change someone’s belief? I don’t think so. You can have all of the smells and bells you want, but if someone doesn’t believe, well, they still don’t believe.

The public relations issue here is how will you convince normal everyday Catholics that they are not going* backwards* if the TLM were instituted at every parish? Until there is an answer to this question you will get nowhere.

People just don’t believe, or don’t believe a lot. That is the problem.

“Lex orandi; lex credendi.”

In English: The law of prayers is the law of belief. That is, as you pray, so will you believe. It’s no accident that the Mass of the Ages inspires a different sort of lifestyle in the average faithful Catholic who assists at it. It is different in form from the Novus Ordo - very different.

The Novus Ordo has lost much of the form from the Mass of the Ages, especially the part about the Mass being a propitiatory sacrifice - the Novus Ordo instead talks of consuming bread and “this cup”/“spiritual drink,” saying the celebrant is offering to the congregation the “work of human hands,” as opposed to the body, blood, soul, and divinity of Our Lord, God, and Savior Jesus Christ.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

Robert : GOD’s Grace isnt in question. Rather the refusal of man to conform his Will to the Will of GOD as moved by Grace voluntarily using his free will , is. So it isnt really an outer force. Its a refusal to use ones inner force for good. Every man has a choice - to do or not do. GOD’s grace is given in ample supply for each of us to make an informed decision to obey , such that we are culpable if we do not. GOD doesnt coerce. No man is tempted beyond his strength.

Pax

You really should scurry on down to the What’s Wrong With Catholics thread.

 

[LittleSoldier]

“Lex orandi; lex credendi.”

In English: The law of prayers is the law of belief. That is, as you pray, so will you believe. It’s no accident that the Mass of the Ages inspires a different sort of lifestyle in the average faithful Catholic who assists at it. It is different in form from the Novus Ordo - very different.

The Novus Ordo has lost much of the form from the Mass of the Ages, especially the part about the Mass being a propitiatory sacrifice - the Novus Ordo instead talks of consuming bread and “this cup”/“spiritual drink,” saying the celebrant is offering to the congregation the “work of human hands,” as opposed to the body, blood, soul, and divinity of Our Lord, God, and Savior Jesus Christ.

I don’t think it’s opposed to the Body, Blood, Boul, and Divinity of our Lord. I’m just a fairly new revert but the words I hear during Mass do state “work of human hands” but those words are only part. During the Presentation of the Gifts God is given credit and thanks for having provided us with the elements necessary for Communion:

Priest: Blessed are You, Lord, God of all creation. Through Your goodness we have this bread to offer, which earth has given and human hands have made. It will become for us the Bread of Life.
Congregation: Blessed be God for ever.

Priest: Blessed are You, Lord, God of all creation. Through Your goodness we have this wine to offer, fruit of the vine and work of human hands. It will become our spiritual drink.
Congregation: Blessed be God for ever.

I never have any doubt that when I receive Communion I am receiving the Body and Blood of our Lord. And as He is God, I also have no doubt that I am receiving His Divinity. I’m not quite sure of the soul part because I never thought of God having a soul but perhaps He is Soul. Obviously I still have much to learn on my journey home.
But after Communion I always cry for joy. Absolutely always. I put my head down so nobody will see and I am quiet. It’s just God and myself at that time and if the church caught on fire I probably wouldn’t even notice.

I just thought of something. I didn’t know about the candle yet it is always there. I’m a revert so I’m not aware of this happening, but are the people who are studying to become Catholics ever taken into the Church and shown what is where, why it is there, its function, if it has changed during the history of the Church, etc.? That would help me now!! Of course proper respect should be shown as it is the House of God, but wouldn’t this be a good time to teach people proper respect?

Over the years I have noticed that people enter the church like it’s a theatre. When I was a child it seems that everyone genuflected. Perhaps, as was mentioned by another poster (with great appreciation from me) there could be part of the Sunday bulletin used to teach people how to show respect during Mass. Certainly these aren’t bad people; they probably just don’t know.

And no matter the form of the Mass, showing respect and love for God has got to be absolutely essential from the time before one enters the Church until one has left.

Another suggestion: I really like to do this. I like to stay after almost everyone else has left and pray in the pew, then go to the shrine to Our Lady of Guadalupe and pray there. It’s quiet, it’s peaceful, I have consumed the Body and Blood of the Christ and I am ecstatically happy.

So there are some things I do, but I think I’ve slowly forgotten many that were important to me before I became an oh-so-intelligent teenager who didn’t know or care if God existed. Maybe that sort of thing can happen to all of us if we let it happen. There is so much the Church has to offer beyond the Mass. I need to re-learn this or learn it correctly so that I can use all the gifts God has given us through His Church.

As for “Lex orandi; lex credendi,” I wonder if that is really true. So many times I have prayed, saying the Nicene Creed or the Apostles Creed and I still doubt. I’ve prayed using my own words, saying “I believe, I believe, please God give me faith” and I still don’t have that faith.

Is my lifestyle different? I don’t think it is. Not one iota.*

 

[LittleSoldier]

Because - perhaps a return to Tradition can foster more devotion. Its worth a try in my opinion. Perhaps you dont share that opinion. Feel free to come up with as many ideas as you can think of. Why do we constantly have to return to the us against them mentality.

I think its refreshing to see - Women veiled and Kneeling for Holy Communion.

Whats more - sometimes I see Protestants after Church at breakfast - the Women dressed in nice dresses and the Men in three piece suits and then I go to Mass and I see something entirely different. It makes me sad to think that many Protestants show their love for GOD externally in many cases better than we do.

Now sure , many people will come back and say - well you , Robert are all hung up on “the externals” - but I see it a different way. The way I see it - I go to Churrch to present myself before GOD - whom I consider to be the Lord of Lords and the King of Kings. Therefore , I am not going to go in Blue jeans , but thats just me. That doesnt mean everyone has to do as I do. But when I see Protestants outperforming Catholics in this regard - it makes me wonder why such a deemphasis on the respect shown externally to the Lord of Lords in the Real Presense is occuring in Our Church when I would have thought the reverse. There is a tele evangelist named Joel Osteen I came across while channel Surfing. I dont watch thos shows too often - but he was preaching in what looked like a sports arena and before I turned the channel - I commented to my wife how everyone in the audience was dressed so very nice. Maybe a lot of people who come here think it unimportant. But I am 54 years old. And I remeber a time when it was important in the Catholic Church. So whats happening to us today - if it used to and it does today remain important to Prots and not to us?

Thats why I began the Thread.

Pax

I understand what you’re saying. I really do. But Robert, all those Protestants in the nice clothes are not attending Mass!! They are not going to the Church that was founded by Jesus. All those nice clothes and respect for God pale in comparison to our presence at Mass. If I showed up at Mass in ratty cut-offs and a tank top and barefoot I believe I would still be showing more respect to God than a Protestant dressed to the nines, simply because I’m at Mass and I will receive the Body and Blood of God.

Not one of those nicely dressed Protestants will receive the Body and Blood of God during their services. And I’ve been to one with my future husband (a long time ago). He wanted me to see a Presbyterian service. People were dressed very nicely. Of course nobody genuflected or knelt except for me (I knelt on the floor in front of the pew, put my head down on the pew in front of me and prayed (some of it was “Please Jesus, get me out of here. This is not right”)). I didn’t genuflect because I saw no reason to. When we sat, my boyfriend put his arm around me like we were at the movies. He wanted to snuggle!!! People were talking loudly inside the “church.” It was a social hour. I felt so uncomfortable and embarrassed, both for myself and for those people.

I don’t remember what happened after that. I refused to go back and my boyfriend, then husband, came with me to Mass. We were married in the Church and I thank God so much for that. At least there was that.

Having said that, it would definitely be best if everyone made their best effort to dress as well as they can to go to Mass. I agree 100 percent with you, even though I show up in jeans when I am able to go. But the more I read here the more I realize that people such as you are correct and I will make an attempt to dress more formally, although I refuse to cover my elbows as I have been told to do.

That will be more than the minimum, definitely. But that’s just for me. I still believe that people who come to Mass are showing more respect by their very presence, when compared with Protestants attending a Protestant service.

And I would like to say that dress depends on the country one lives in and the part of that country. Here there are poor people who don’t have nice clothes. The closest parish has people who are even more poor. Although clothes are given to people, they aren’t the greatest clothes and few would probably be considered acceptable to wear during Mass. But that is what we have to offer. A person wearing old jeans and a shirt with a little tear may be wearing his best clothes. It’s not my place to judge him or anyone else.

I hope this post makes sense.

 

[ProVobis]

But, does the one hour or so for Mass change someone’s belief?

Unfortunately most Catholics only have one hour per week to hear the word of God. If that much.

Here is what Cardinal Arinze says on the matter:

"Not every Catholic at Mass will immediately understand in full such normal Catholic liturgical formulae as Incarnation, Creation, Passion, Resurrection, Consubstantial with the Father, Proceeding from the Father and the Son, Transubstantiation, Real Presence, Transcendent and omnipotent God. This is not a question of English, or French, or Italian, or Hindi or Kiswahili. Translators should not become iconoclasts who destroy and damage as they go along. **Everything cannot be explained during the liturgy. **

**The liturgy does not exhaust the entire life activity of the Church **(cf. SC, n. 9). There is also need for theology, catechetics and preaching. And even when a good catechesis has been delivered, a mystery of our faith remains a mystery.

Indeed, we can say that the most important thing in divine worship is not that we understand every word or concept. No. The most important consideration is that we stand in reverence and awe before God, that we adore, praise and thank him. The sacred, the things of God, are best approached with sandals off.

The public relations issue here is how will you convince normal everyday Catholics that they are not going* backwards* if the TLM were instituted at every parish? Until there is an answer to this question you will get nowhere.

You are entirely right. Public relations is an important part of the equation. But so are the hardened hearts which easily succumb to progressiveness.

 

[AlanFromWichita]

We all need to step back and take a deep breath and relax. Why does everything here have to be taken as an argument or attack?

We are all catholics.

Maybe because we have many “head” people, a few “heart” people, and too few people who have developed both sides?

Alan

 

[3Sanctus]

I’m emailing my response to the person it was directed to since it would take this thread off-course.

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

Whats more - sometimes I see Protestants after Church at breakfast - the Women dressed in nice dresses and the Men in three piece suits and then I go to Mass and I see something entirely different. It makes me sad to think that many Protestants show their love for GOD externally in many cases better than we do.

Now sure , many people will come back and say - well you , Robert are all hung up on “the externals” - but I see it a different way. The way I see it - I go to Church to present myself before GOD - whom I consider to be the Lord of Lords and the King of Kings. Therefore , I am not going to go in Blue jeans , but thats just me. That doesnt mean everyone has to do as I do. But when I see Protestants outperforming Catholics in this regard - it makes me wonder why such a deemphasis on the respect shown externally to the Lord of Lords in the Real Presense is occuring in Our Church when I would have thought the reverse.
Pax

Ah…but not all of them. Certainly not in the Protestant church I went to… I did go to an AOG in our town…the preacher was in a 3 piece Armani suit…the place was packed with everyone in nice suits/dresses…except for us…we had just moved…everything was packed. Nice attire…place was completely dead inside…we never went back

I think there is a lot you can’t tell by externals…and maybe that is where you lost me on your post. There is a lot that people do that is more then the bare minimum for God but you won’t be able to tell it on the outside. Our Lord told us to do that when fasting, no? An abundent prayer life is something that you might not see on the outside but definetly something worthwile doing more then the minimum. So is frequent reconciliation…sure the Church says we must go a minimum of once a year but I do find that too infrequent for me. Again, that is something that will not be on the outside but more of the inside.

I receive communion in the hand, I know you don’t agree, but I never notice other people receiving or how they are doing it…because I am too overcome in praise/thanksgiving afterward…the only time I look up is when the priest sits down. Again, another internal thing.

Another idea is more faithbuilding classes–take the opportunity to learn about your faith…sure maybe you went to Catholic high school or were Catholic your whole life…doesn’t necessarily mean that you know about your faith.

 

[Robert_Burns]

You really should scurry on down to the What’s Wrong With Catholics thread.

Robert : Maybe - I will - But really rather than focus on it being wrong - which I think implies a negative connotation that someone isnt doing “whats right” - I was really looking more at it from the standpoint of “What can we do better” - which I think everyone would agree if honest with themselves that we can all be better Catholics. I know i can.

And thanks

Pax

 

[Robert_Burns]

I understand what you’re saying. I really do. But Robert, all those Protestants in the nice clothes are not attending Mass!! They are not going to the Church that was founded by Jesus. All those nice clothes and respect for God pale in comparison to our presence at Mass. If I showed up at Mass in ratty cut-offs and a tank top and barefoot I believe I would still be showing more respect to God than a Protestant dressed to the nines, simply because I’m at Mass and I will receive the Body and Blood of God.

Not one of those nicely dressed Protestants will receive the Body and Blood of God during their services. And I’ve been to one with my future husband (a long time ago). He wanted me to see a Presbyterian service. People were dressed very nicely. Of course nobody genuflected or knelt except for me (I knelt on the floor in front of the pew, put my head down on the pew in front of me and prayed (some of it was “Please Jesus, get me out of here. This is not right”)). I didn’t genuflect because I saw no reason to. When we sat, my boyfriend put his arm around me like we were at the movies. He wanted to snuggle!!! People were talking loudly inside the “church.” It was a social hour. I felt so uncomfortable and embarrassed, both for myself and for those people.

I don’t remember what happened after that. I refused to go back and my boyfriend, then husband, came with me to Mass. We were married in the Church and I thank God so much for that. At least there was that.

Having said that, it would definitely be best if everyone made their best effort to dress as well as they can to go to Mass. I agree 100 percent with you, even though I show up in jeans when I am able to go. But the more I read here the more I realize that people such as you are correct and I will make an attempt to dress more formally, although I refuse to cover my elbows as I have been told to do.

That will be more than the minimum, definitely. But that’s just for me. I still believe that people who come to Mass are showing more respect by their very presence, when compared with Protestants attending a Protestant service.

And I would like to say that dress depends on the country one lives in and the part of that country. Here there are poor people who don’t have nice clothes. The closest parish has people who are even more poor. Although clothes are given to people, they aren’t the greatest clothes and few would probably be considered acceptable to wear during Mass. But that is what we have to offer. A person wearing old jeans and a shirt with a little tear may be wearing his best clothes. It’s not my place to judge him or anyone else.

I hope this post makes sense.

Robert : I agree - they arent attending mass - But I think as Little Soldier expressed earlier - Do WE as Catholics who have Mass - show the same level of respect that they who do not even have Mass show. Of course - this is a question for each Catholic to ask themselves. But in my opinion - I think some improvement and or education as to what Mass is and how precious it is is in order. I would think that we, knowing what we know - should be better than they - since they do not have the fullness of Truth. But - “Lex Orandi - Lex Credendi” is substantive. My point wasnt to compare the Merits of Protestant “worship” with Catholic Mass - and I think you know that to be true. I was comparing their level of respect for what THEY Feel is True to what we know to be true. And since we know that Holy Mass is the Real Presense of Jesus Christ - why dont we do better than they who dont have the Body and Blood of Jesus.

And BTW - I am bringing these things up merely to challenge all of us to do better - not to demonstrate to our neighbor soley - but in addtion to do so for GOD. Not because we have to - but because we want to. You know - you arent the only one to show up to Church in Jeans. I havent always in the past done so either. But - over the last 5 - 10 years I have seen a decline in reverence. I just dont want to be part of the problem anymore. Maybe by saying some of these things - It has struck a nerve with some - and if so I am sorry. I just want to see us as the Body of Christ be an example to non Catholics and the Catholic youth who are our future. I didnt start this to begin an argument.

Great post - I enjoyed reading it and thank you for it.

Pax

 

[Robert_Burns]

Maybe because we have many “head” people, a few “heart” people, and too few people who have developed both sides?

Alan

I think better Education as to why we do as we do is a positive - the purpose for the Rubrics - an emphasis on the Truths of our faith - couldnt hurt? Good point.

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

Robert : Maybe - I will - But really rather than focus on it being wrong - which I think implies a negative connotation that someone isnt doing “whats right” - I was really looking more at it from the standpoint of “What can we do better” - which I think everyone would agree if honest with themselves that we can all be better Catholics. I know i can.

And thanks

Pax

Well…they have one over there “What I love about the Catholic Church”…

 

[Robert_Burns]

Well…they have one over there “What I love about the Catholic Church”…

Which is also a great topic for a thread - But along the same line of thought can we show our love by increasing our effort in tangible ways? Or is love merely an emotional response?

 

[LittleSoldier]

Which is also a great topic for a thread - But along the same line of thought can we show our love by increasing our effort in tangible ways? Or is love merely an emotional response?

Maybe someone should start a thread entitled “What I Love About God.” That would be interesting to me. Maybe I’ll do it.

 

[Robert_Burns]

Maybe someone should start a thread entitled “What I Love About God.” That would be interesting to me. Maybe I’ll do it.

Robert: I’ll watch for it - …

pax