Domestic violence

[Liberanosamalo]

By the way, I love that “hit first and ask questions later” kind of attitude by some of the posters.

None of us were there. We are only hearing one side of the story second-hand.

How did this scenario go? 'Don’t (slap) hit (slap) the kids (smack) ever again!" (smack)

Yeah, that’s logical.



I think the man in this story has been dropping hints either deliberately or subconsciously. Whether he’s telling the truth about himself to look like a heroic defender of small children or he’s warning her in a manipulative fashion or if he’s not even realizing what he’s saying, he seems to have a need to let her know he has a violent streak. She’s been warned. Where there is smoke, there is fire.

 

[whatevergirl]

*I think the key to note here is…that wannab said this is the first time in their relationship that stopped her in her tracks. But, that’s kind of what happens with these situations.

Dating is a forecast of a marriage. If you are already seeing red flags, to keep forging on…thinking those red flags will go away, they won’t. They will only get worse. We don’t know this man, only you do, wannab. But, some of us have had experience with men who hit, or are verbally manipulative, and abusive. If you have that ache in your stomach over this, follow that ache, don’t ignore it.

I agree with Liberano, there are plenty of men out there, who don’t have all of this drama, chaos, and most importantly, are not hitting women…for any reasons.

I hope that you find some peace in what the right thing to do would be. We can only offer advice, based on the information given. *

 

[Lindriel]

Oh, and not all abused children grow up to be abusers. That is a blanket statement which is offensive to those who have overcome past abuse.

I just wanted to quote this for truth. I’ve known people who have been abused to the point that would make your hair curl in horror and became an excellent parents and spouses. Sometimes that abuse merely makes them determined not to ever repeat it.

As for the OP, I’m going to jump on the train and say to at least take a step back and look over your relationship with fresh eyes, maybe get someone who’s opinion in relationships you trust. This may have been a one time misguided judgement or it may be a flaming red flag of things to come. Also, maybe make a point of saying to your boyfriend that it is form of abuse to see their parents hit each other, whether one way or another, which is true. It shows a very dangerous side to the kids who are supposed to rely on them for everything. Also, cops have gotten much better over the years for dealing with this, he should honestly take it to them if he believes there’s abuse.

 

[iluvmybabies]

To the posters who misquoted me in order to condemn me, get the quote right at least!

OFTEN does not mean ALWAYS! And “If they don’t get help” is a caveat.

There is no arrogance in my post. Only experience.

LuvMyBabies is entirely correct. I know what it’s like to be the “ex-wife accused of abuse.” But if I was so “abusive” why did he walk off for a year leaving me with three babies all alone?

I know what it’s like to be written up in a divorce petition as “abusive” because a child who was double-jointed pulled away from me when I was holding her hand and pulled her elbow out of the socket. I took the little one to the emergency room and they rotated it and gave her a popsicle. $400 and a scathing write-up in a divorce petition later. From the same guy who ran one of the kids into something while playing and she needed brain surgery. But that was an “accident.”

I could feed my kids at that age till the cows came home and they’d say they didn’t want it and claim they weren’t fed. Even as full plates were on the table. (You mean you don’t like spaghetti this week? You LOVED it last week!)

The OP is with someone who may not be giving her all the facts. I wasn’t. I married someone without knowing the real reason he had two broken engagements before he married me. He said they were “unstable.”



No! They were SANE! They broke up with him! I was the crazy one for putting on a dress and promising to love him till I died.

Get out now! He’s already told you he’ll hit you if he thinks you deserve it. Facts don’t matter.

I repeat. Where there’s smoke, there’s fire. In that annulment petition, one or both of them was found to be incapable of carrying out a real marriage or unable to give full consent, or had a lack of due discretion. You have the right to know that full history before you become wife #2. I personally wouldn’t wait around for the answer. There’s plenty other men out there.

I hear you Liberanosamalo, it’s not fun when you know you are not as anyone describes you…It’s pretty sad especially when it’s your exhusband the man that had told you, you were his everything, the best mother in the world for his kids, blah blah blah, etc etc etc and then does things like that to you?! Yeah I hear you and mine was undercover the whole time…I didn’t know whom he was until we were married! And exactly if a person is that unstable or such a terrible mother why would a man leave their children in the hands of danger? I asked my exhusband that same question, he didn’t answer me for about 1 month when he wrote back asking me how the kids were and to tell them he loved them!! LOL And about the kids, yeah, my kids are now learning that if they don’t eat what is cooked they don’t eat at all…It may sound cruel but I got it off a babysitter whom babysat for like 50 years of her life, a nanny…She told me the best thing to do is just that…Because always had picky eaters, they never agreed on anything to eat, they would want one thing then change their minds and I was stuck eating the food they never ate…It was really difficult. Now at ages: 11, 9 and 6 my kids are learning that if they don’t want what is served, they go to bed hungry and that’s it! Sounds terrible but when there are thousands of children going hungry, and I have to stay extra time at work-then having to hear them yelling because I don’t spend enough time with them- so I can bring home enough money for food, I can’t afford for my kids to be wasteful nor is it right…And always, like last night was a good example, they ate all of their breakfast, lunch and dinner and even had an after dinner snack, and right before bed they were screaming to the top of their lungs they were “starving!” And I just looked at them and was like “here’s some milk and water go to bed!” They are learning but let me tell you they still do some things that just drives me crazy!!! lol And if they were to talk to their father they would tell him that they are “starving to death!” Kids…lol

Anyhow back to the OP, like I said hon, either you find out both sides of the story or you run…Don’t give him the chance to have an excuse to ever hit you…ever hon!

 

[Cracker_Mom]

I hate the term “excess baggage” when referring to folk’s previous marriages, kids, ex-spouses,etc.,etc. People aren’t “baggage.” But all the issues one brings into a new relationship from the previous one(s) surely are an important consideration.They don’t go away.

 

[cabolissa]

I would RUN from this man!

Take it from someone who lived this as a child. Many abusive moms are abused themselves (by their husbands). It’s their sick way of coping with it.

Ask yourself, or his priest, WHY WAS HIS MARRIAGE ANULLED? Due to physical violence?

You don’t want to me wrapped into this mess. Get out while you can.

Marriage is hard enough year after year, you really need to start off with good footing. This sounds unstable, and unhealthy AT BEST.

Be strong, see your priest, and know that God has something better planned for you. You’ll be in my prayers.

 

[domini_canus]

Ask yourself, or his priest, WHY WAS HIS MARRIAGE ANULLED? Due to physical violence?

A marriage cannot be automatically “annulled,” as you put it, based on physical violence alone. Such violence, per se, does not invalidate a marriage.

 

[sanctamaria17]

Run, fast.

If she was caught in the act and he had to pull her off the kids, then call the cops, that’s one thing. But it sounds like he hit her and left…Not good…

I know a lot of tough, strong, protective men. NONE of them would EVER hit a woman. If it came down to defense, they’d save it for a man equal in strength.

There is that saying, “Why don’t you pick on someone your own size?” for a reason, and it isn’t just for school kids.

And if he really fears for those babies, why isn’t he calling the cops and taking them somewhere safe??

Run and never look back. Find someone gentle, kind, and TRULY protective.

What’s more:

I agree with iluvmybabies about kids horsing around, etc. My sister was very accident prone as a child and always was going to the emergency room. People thought it was my dad’s fault! My mom would go kickboxing and bruise easily from the practice. People thought my dad was hitting her. I played rugby, had bruises all over my body and, that same semester, spent a considerable amount of time in the company of a male friend. I would not be surprised if people made similar assumptions. And siblings are always rough housing. My sister and I did, we did with my brother when we were small, it’s what kids do!!

 

[Serap]

As a woman who grew up with a very abusive father…this is how it starts…trust me.

My father woo’d my mother with flowers and promises. She was in-love with someone else at the time and rebounded with my father…mistake. He hit her before they got married, but she was already on a ship to England and pregnant with me. He promised her it would never happen again.

My whole childhood is memories of my father beating my brothers and me and my mother. He was always sorry afterwards promising he would never do it again. I always had bruises on my body as a child. My mother then became depressed (she had mental issues to begin with) and began to resent me and beat me too - she was ok with my brothers though. My whole childhood was a big disaster.

These men don’t change. If a man hits a woman, he will continue to do so. He will always have excuses. You are seeing his true colours now. He may of told you himself b/c he was afraid you’d find out via his wife, kids, etc. This is a big red flag that won’t go away.

Trust me; I have lived it too. You are getting good advice and it’s probably difficult for you to digest right now. It’s all so sudden. Pray and be guided by the Holy Spirit and someone else suggested.

 

[tcm22]

As a husband and father, the original post in this thread chilled me. I certainly don’t know the full extent of the circumstances, but what was presented screams of the need to get out of that relationship until there is absolute certainty that this man can control his actions and emotions.

Striking family members (or anyone for that matter) in anger is just an absolute red line. I have no problem spanking children, but that’s a far cry from a man hitting a woman he is in a relationship with (and ex-wives count there). His justification of “defending the children” sounds like rationalization to me. If he actually witnessed abuse taking place and stepped in to stop it, then I could understand. In this case, it appears he had concerns over the treatment of the situation and allowed that to escalate into a physical confrontation with the mother. That’s a long way from “defending” anything. That smacks of out of control anger and inappropriate action as a result.

The OP is right to be worried about this.

 

[iluvmybabies]

Run, fast.

If she was caught in the act and he had to pull her off the kids, then call the cops, that’s one thing. But it sounds like he hit her and left…Not good…

I know a lot of tough, strong, protective men. NONE of them would EVER hit a woman. If it came down to defense, they’d save it for a man equal in strength.

There is that saying, “Why don’t you pick on someone your own size?” for a reason, and it isn’t just for school kids.

And if he really fears for those babies, why isn’t he calling the cops and taking them somewhere safe??

Run and never look back. Find someone gentle, kind, and TRULY protective.

What’s more:

I agree with iluvmybabies about kids horsing around, etc. My sister was very accident prone as a child and always was going to the emergency room. People thought it was my dad’s fault! My mom would go kickboxing and bruise easily from the practice. People thought my dad was hitting her. I played rugby, had bruises all over my body and, that same semester, spent a considerable amount of time in the company of a male friend. I would not be surprised if people made similar assumptions. And siblings are always rough housing. My sister and I did, we did with my brother when we were small, it’s what kids do!!

My sister almost went blind when she was a tiny tot, ran inside the house because she was outside without permission while it was raining. We had tile floor in the house and she was wearing sandals. She slid straight through to my mom’s bedroom, I still remember it like if it was yesterday. I remember how she slid as if she was sliding for home base because she didn’t want to get into trouble, at the speed she was going she caught the corner of our parent’s bed-the foot of the bed the rails that hold the mattress- and she broke open her temple…Right after that she needed glasses…Another time she wouldn’t share the tricycle and I was riding it, I told her to wait a few minutes and I was going to give it to her, she didn’t listen so she chased me around the block, it was dark, parents were having a party, and she tripped and landed head first in the concreted side walk, busted her head wide open, needed emergency stitches…My grandmother bought us these adorable chairs they were metal, covered with some plastic, cute kiddie chairs, sturdy and all, well my younger brother decided to pick at the chair and rubber and plastic that adorned the chair, until he left the metal showing. Well one of those evenings during dinner time, mom was feeding him…He kept rocking the non-rockable chair. I still remember it. And mom kept telling him to stop doing that…HE didn’t listen, nothing new. So on one of those rockings he pushed too hard and landed on top of the chair, metal part first, and busted the back of his head open…LOL…

Another time, my sister wanted a big girl bike…Because the next door neighbor’s daughter had one. They were about the same age, 10 or so…Parent’s didn’t have the money and the cute Barbie bike was what she had wanted that Christmas…Well she always traded with this girl. Until one day I decided to check out the bike, it was big enough for me. I am 3.5 years older than my sister. When I noticed it didn’t have brakes I let her know not to ride it…Didn’t listen. Mom was calling us in one afternoon, she came slamming into the concreted stairs of the house mouth first, broke her mount wide open chipped a tooth and all…

And I remember when I was 7, I didn’t obey my grandmother to stay away from the “forbidden fruit!” She had a gorgeous fruit tree in front of her yard. But we usually ate it when it was just blooming. SO I was told not to touch it until all the fruits were in bloom…Later on in summer. I didn’t listen, I climbed the tree until I reached the available fruit which were on the top of the tree. When I heard my grandmother coming and then saw her through a window on top of the house, I tried to climb down as fast as I could. Didn’t make it, slipped and fell all the way down a full house story high, broke my right arm…

SO sometimes kids do the darnest things and believe me when I tell you that you don’t know why those munchkins were all bruised up…Still to this day, I will hit myself on the table and I bruise easily…terribly easily. And I can have bruises from bumping into the corner of a wall, etc…AND it looks as if someone has hit me…Well yeah technically someone did hit me, ME, lol, but not abused. So dear unless you have spoken with him and her and know both sides you really shouldn’t take his word for it and verify other wise run! And stay safe and sane!!!

 

[OnFire4Christ]

This is so difficult, I mean, what if he really did just screw up this one time? But then again, this is exactly how it starts… Plus he didn’t even catch her in the act… Okay, so maybe the story is completely wrong and everything and he’s lying… but I’m more inclined to believe that abuse really did happen, after all, you said she confessed…but I know the least of everyone, I really think you need to find out and get all your facts straight. if he really did show his true colors on that day then you will be setting yourself up for the biggest torment of your life if you walk into marriage. I know this might be awkward, but… I would see if I could talk to his ex-wife too, and I don’t mean angry SMS messages… maybe you’ll figure out more or maybe she’ll lie to make him look horrible, but you need more information to make a decision that will make perhaps the biggest impact on your life…

P.S. Oh and please try to figure out why he didn’t call the police… I’m so curious why he didn’t do that in the first place (if you don’t mind, of course)

 

[WannaBAnon]

Thanks for the replies, everyone. Wow, they’re all so… negative. (That’s not exactly the right word.) Certain. It’s given me a lot to think about. My heart still doesn’t WANT to give up on this. I want him to be the kind, thoughtful, gentle guy I’ve been dating. Forgive me, this post is a little disjointed.

I had a talk with him yesterday. Nothing decided, nothing finalized. I did the whole, “nothing condones violence against children, but nothing condones violence against women, either. Or men, for that matter” thing.

He’s busy trying to clean up the fallout from this. He has the kids at his grandmother’s house now, and he’s trying to arrange permanent custody - I don’t know how that’s going. As many people mentioned, kids can get bruised and scratched on their own, too, and can he really prove that she did it? I don’t know whether the kids’ testimony on that is believable - kids say some strange things sometimes, too.

He seems pretty shaken up about all of this. The abuse, losing control of himself. sorting out how this changes everything. His two sisters won’t talk to him, they’re that mad about him hitting a woman. I can believe that it was the first time, because of their reactions.

I don’t think it occurred to him to call the police at first. And then, after he’d hit her, I think he was afraid to, in case it was him that went to jail and her that got left alone with the kids. After all, bruised kids, slapped mother, uninjured father… who are the cops going to believe?

We had a long talk. He regrets doing it, both for the losing control and for the losing self-respect as a man. (Wouldn’t he say that anyway? Probably.) He feels stupid for messing up a chance to protect his children by getting them out of there, because he lost his temper and hit their mother. He’s got half a dozen people around him going, “what in God’s name did you do that for?”

And he’s got me, saying I won’t marry a guy who hits women. I didn’t dump him and run for the hills. We are going to take a month apart and see what happens then. He’ll need that time to sort out what’s happening - can he get the kids, what will he do about childcare, where, when, how, what…

Of the people who know him in real life, I’m getting mixed messages. His sisters believe his side of the story but are still furious. My friends (male and female) say they can understand why he’d do it, and I should forgive him if he promises not to hit anyone ever again. His mom is disappointed in him, but says she understands how it happened and believes him when he says he wouldn’t do it again.

I don’t know what needs to happen, what needs to change… I’ve got to think that over. Does having hit a woman once in his life make a man ineligible for marriage? Marriage to a woman who doesn’t want to be abused? Marriage to me, anyway? What do I need from him, if I decide to proceed? Anger management classes? Counselling?

He already gave me his word that he would never hit a woman again, not me, not her, not anyone. He says he’s seen how stupid it was to hit her, even if she abused his kids. The promise is nice, but as everyone’s pointed out, promises are easy to make.

 

[flyingfish]

How well do you know this man? Well he says he slapped her, slapping is not punching. I wouldn’t really consider a slap to be wife beating, since it’s usually an outrage response.

However, has he hit her before? That is what you need to know.

 

[catholickitten]

I agree with everyone here… My first reaction is to stay away from this man… RED FLAG.

True, seeing your children hurt can be painful and of course you wanna do something about it, but hit a woman (or ANYONE for that matter) is NOT RIGHT. There are OTHER ways…

I don’t wanna be radical or negative, I know this might be hurting you deeply and I’m so sorry you have to go through this, but also, I can’t lie and say this is something you should overlook and sweep it under the carpet, it doesn’t work that way.

Pray, and think about everything… He already said he WOULD hit a woman “if necessary”, and then he just went ahead and do it. You have ALL that to consider before taking a decision.

I’ll pray for you.

 

[sanctamaria17]

How well do you know this man? Well he says he slapped her, slapping is not punching. I wouldn’t really consider a slap to be wife beating, since it’s usually an outrage response.

However, has he hit her before? That is what you need to know.

Why wouldn’t an outrage response be considered abuse?

I’ve got a temper. I am a hothead. I have gotten angry, very angry, with people I love. But I don’t smack people in the face. If I’m joking around with a couple of my guy friends, I’ll tap them lightly, as if to say, “Cut that out!” But I don’t hit. Ever. The only time I’d hit someone is if I’m being attacked.

You don’t hit your spouse. Ever. I don’t care what it is, whether it’s punching or an “outrage response”. I’m pretty sure the cops would consider an “outrage response” at least worthy of questioning, if not a night in jail.

 

[NoxSineStellae]

How well do you know this man? Well he says he slapped her, slapping is not punching. I wouldn’t really consider a slap to be wife beating, since it’s usually an outrage response.

My dad once broke my mom’s leg during an “outrage response”. He threw a heavy metal trash can at her and she fell down the stairs. But throwing a trash can at someone isn’t punching…my dad has slapped, pushed, and kicked my mother but never punched her (he saved that for his teenage daughters so I guess he’s not a wife beater! Thank you! I can’t tell you how nice it is to realize that

Closed fist, open fist, violence is violence and often perpetrator will lie about what triggered it, and may even believe those lies. My father once pushed my mother so hard she was knocked down and had massive black and blue marks up and down her hip, back, and leg. I came in screaming at him - first and only time in my life I wasn’t scared of him - and he tried to claim that she had him “cornered” and that it was “self-defense for his own protection”. He didn’t know me and another sibling had been keeping an eye on their verbal fight from the kitchen, and saw that our mother was the one in the corner and she had made no move towards him. If her words (begging him to stop drinking all the money away and buying himself boats and motorcycles while we had no food) provoked an “outrage response”, perhaps he could have turned around? Walked away? No, he needed to take his 250lbs of muscle and push a 110lb woman to the floor.

He also likes to tell people that our mother is the abusive one, and he’ll have her committed someday to “keep us all safe”. His family is mad when they find out about the physical abuse, but they believe him that he was driven to it, and he’s such a poor victim soul, and if he wasn’t being provoked…and anyway, he’s just trying to “protect his children”…excuse me while I go vomit.

OP, I don’t think I’d take the risk, but I’m not you. I have experience living with a man who proclaims to want to avenge the wronged and protect women and children, but who has kicked a toddler across the room when angered, and who will always find a way to put you into the catagory of people who “deserve” to be verbally and physically abused. It’s not as easy for me to be optimistic.

And oh yeah, dad used to claim we “weren’t being fed”. That was because he’d take all the money for food and go out to eat, while we survived on beans, rice, and the kindness of neighbors. But to his friends and coworkers, the line was that our mother wasn’t feeding us and we were being neglected.

 

[Serap]

My dad once broke my mom’s leg during an “outrage response”. He threw a heavy metal trash can at her and she fell down the stairs. But throwing a trash can at someone isn’t punching…my dad has slapped, pushed, and kicked my mother but never punched her (he saved that for his teenage daughters so I guess he’s not a wife beater! Thank you! I can’t tell you how nice it is to realize that

Closed fist, open fist, violence is violence and often perpetrator will lie about what triggered it, and may even believe those lies. My father once pushed my mother so hard she was knocked down and had massive black and blue marks up and down her hip, back, and leg. I came in screaming at him - first and only time in my life I wasn’t scared of him - and he tried to claim that she had him “cornered” and that it was “self-defense for his own protection”. He didn’t know me and another sibling had been keeping an eye on their verbal fight from the kitchen, and saw that our mother was the one in the corner and she had made no move towards him. If her words (begging him to stop drinking all the money away and buying himself boats and motorcycles while we had no food) provoked an “outrage response”, perhaps he could have turned around? Walked away? No, he needed to take his 250lbs of muscle and push a 110lb woman to the floor.

He also likes to tell people that our mother is the abusive one, and he’ll have her committed someday to “keep us all safe”. His family is mad when they find out about the physical abuse, but they believe him that he was driven to it, and he’s such a poor victim soul, and if he wasn’t being provoked…and anyway, he’s just trying to “protect his children”…excuse me while I go vomit.

OP, I don’t think I’d take the risk, but I’m not you. I have experience living with a man who proclaims to want to avenge the wronged and protect women and children, but who has kicked a toddler across the room when angered, and who will always find a way to put you into the catagory of people who “deserve” to be verbally and physically abused. It’s not as easy for me to be optimistic.

And oh yeah, dad used to claim we “weren’t being fed”. That was because he’d take all the money for food and go out to eat, while we survived on beans, rice, and the kindness of neighbors. But to his friends and coworkers, the line was that our mother wasn’t feeding us and we were being neglected.

Hey, I think we had the same father!

 

[Serap]

How well do you know this man? Well he says he slapped her, slapping is not punching. I wouldn’t really consider a slap to be wife beating, since it’s usually an outrage response.

However, has he hit her before? That is what you need to know.

This is a very irresponsible thing to say! Outrage response???

My husband has been outraged with me to the point where he would just love to slap me across the head, but wanting to and doing are two different things! I have been so angry with my husband that I have just wanted to punch him in the face, but I would never go through with my “outrage response”.

This is just crazy! If a man hits a woman with a slap it’s ok, but a fist is terrible???

If a man hits a woman…BIG RED FLAG.

My husband has yelled at me and said some pretty mean things during some of our fights (and I’ve said my share of mean things too), but he would never consider hitting me. He has even pushed things in some of his tempers, but hitting me would never be an option for him.

OP - you need to really think this through. It’s easy to justify and think, “He would never hit me.” because you love him and don’t want to lose this love in your life. Your friends may be giving you some bad advice right now also. They sound a bit naive to me, but I’m sure they are wonderful people.

Taking a month off is a good idea. Pray like crazy because if you do decide to marry this guy, it’s not without huge risks. Be careful and make sure you think with your head and not your heart.

Find every book you can at the local book store on this subject and learn as much as you can in the next month! You need to get more opinions than your friends and CAF. Get some professional opinions as well…please do this for your well being.

 

[whatevergirl]

*Hi wannab…I sent you a pm, too. I just wanted to add that, something just seems odd here. So, you have been dating him for over a year, and this is the first time he tells you of hitting his wife? So, if his wife is that bad of a mother, why hasn’t he tried to get sole custody of them before now? If this was a one time thing, why would he haul off and slap her? See, it doesn’t make sense, and when things don’t make sense, I tend to back away. I can’t tell you what to do, only offer prayers, and my observations, but when you have a lot of confusion and doubt over something, personally, I think it’s best to go with your gut, and back away. The only thing I can think of is, she has been a bad mom all along, and he finally snapped…but again, if she is that neglectful of the kids, and has been for some time, most parents would do what they could to get their kids out of such a home life, asap. He seems to only be reacting now, why?

EVERYONE has a past. EVERYONE has issues, problems, etc…But not everyone has chaos in his/her life. That’s the red flag to me, that if you marry him, you marry the chaos.

Just think there are a lot of questions surrounding the story–and his friends, mom, etc…are not marrying him, you are. You will have a very unique relationship with this man than his mother and friends do, so really, I toss a few grains of salt to their opinions of what happened. I will keep you in my prayers! ((hugs)) *