Domine non sum dingna

[Trevelyan]

Just a thought,
Wouldn’t it be correct for women to say ‘Domine non sum digna’ and for men to say ‘Domine non sum dignus’.
What do you think?

 

[Vox_Borealis]

Just a thought,
Wouldn’t it be correct for women to say ‘Domine non sum digna’ and for men to say ‘Domine non sum dignus’.
What do you think?

I would argue no, since the response invokes a scriptural reference (the centurion speaking). One could look at languages that still have gendered adjectives (like Italian or French) to see if the response varies for men and women.

 

[Chatter163]

Latin adjectives do not change to match a male or female gendered noun.

 

[Vox_Borealis]

Latin adjectives do not change to match a male or female gendered noun.

Uh, yes they do. And that is why romance languages (French, Italian, Spanish, etc.) also do. please refer to Wheelock, Chapter 2, p. 11-12 on agreement of nouns and adjectives in number, case, and gender.

 

[Morning_Star15]

To be fair, some Latin adjectives don’t change their endings according to gender (I’m referring to 3rd declension adjectives which can have 1, 2 or 3 terminations). However this doesn’t apply to the adjective in question, which does change based on gender.

I go to Polish Mass sometimes in my parish, and Polish is a language that does change the endings of adjectives based on gender. The men and women do say this adjective with a different ending based on their gender (the men say “godzien” and the women “godna”). I don’t know if this is the way it’s supposed to be done, but that’s the way I’ve heard it.

Karolina

 

[Vox_Borealis]

To be fair, some Latin adjectives don’t change their endings according to gender (I’m referring to 3rd declension adjectives which can have 1, 2 or 3 terminations). However this doesn’t apply to the adjective in question, which does change based on gender.

To be fussy, even adjectives with only one termination change with gender–the ‘one determination’ refers to the nominative singular, which is shared by all genders (as are most of the other endings, but that is true of all third-declension adjs). But the nominative/accusative plural endings differ between the Mac/Fem and Neuter endings.

OK, I’ll stop picking nits…

I go to Polish Mass sometimes in my parish, and Polish is a language that does change the endings of adjectives based on gender. The men and women do say this adjective with a different ending based on their gender (the men say “godzien” and the women “godna”). I don’t know if this is the way it’s supposed to be done, but that’s the way I’ve heard it.

Karolina

That IS interesting. I have attended mass in Italian and French, but I have never noticed people ‘gendering’ the endings. Then again, I have not really thought to pay attention. It would be interesting to see what is written in French, Italian, Polish, etc. missals. In other words, is the Italian missal (for example) written something like: “non sono degno/a, ma…”?

can anyone in the know help out with this one?

 

[G_S]

I would suppose that in the vernacular of a language that has grammatical gender, a female would automatically use the feminine form of an adjective without even noticing. Actually, dignus and digna are the same word, it only doesn’t seem so to us.

 

[G_S]

In terms of the scriptural reference, it might be noted that sanabitur anima mea is a change from servus meus.

 

[jbuck919]

Ah, go ahead the next time you’re at a Latin Mass. I bet no one will notice.

It is actually a good question that deserves a good answer, which I do not have. BTW all Latin adjectives must agree with their noun in gender, case, and number. The question: Which takes precedence, quoting a text or speaking for oneself?

Of equal if not more concern to me is the dropping of that text in another gratuitous oversimplification in the English translation of the Novus Ordo. (What is wrong with “Lord, I am not worthy, that you should come under my roof?”)

Interestingly, not quite on topic, I have a wonderful friend of many years who is an Episcopal (Anglican) priest, and somehow in the course of the erudition he has accumulated over a lifetime in his profession, he did not understand why the old Book of Common Prayer said “The Lord be with you,” “And with thy spirit.” As embarrassing as it was, I had to explain the archaic usage of the second person.