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ridesawhitehors
Guest
Good for him! Wish he would build one here in the liberal anti-catholic pacific northwest.
The writer sure sounded annoyed with the idea.
The writer sure sounded annoyed with the idea.
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GarryOwen
Guest
Look out for the postman, there is a sainthood in the mail. 
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john_ennis
Guest
MSNBC didn’t take too many sentences to turn the venture into something problematic. “strict interpretation of Catholicism”?..“franchising” his views"?
love the media
Peace.
John
love the media
Peace.
John
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T.A.Stobie_SFO
Guest
I have wanted to do it in my area but never having the funding. I would try to make the living more communal that we see today in the suburbs.
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msproule
Guest
Parallel thread alert! See the other one here.
As with so many things, there are multiple sides to every story. In this particular case, while the intent is undoubtedly laudable, the execution is arguably lamentable. Do the ends justify the means? Only time will tell…
Then again, perhaps I am tainted as a result of geography. I have benefited by being in the vicinity of many of Mr. Monaghan’s good works and am saddened to see local Michigan people negatively affected by this development.
As with so many things, there are multiple sides to every story. In this particular case, while the intent is undoubtedly laudable, the execution is arguably lamentable. Do the ends justify the means? Only time will tell…
Then again, perhaps I am tainted as a result of geography. I have benefited by being in the vicinity of many of Mr. Monaghan’s good works and am saddened to see local Michigan people negatively affected by this development.
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TPJCatholic
Guest
I think the idea is understandable, but wrong. Jesus would not have us pull away from the world–imo. Rather, Jesus would have us living in the world as faithful Catholics. If a couple thousand faithful Catholics move to that town, then that is a couple thousand Catholics who are not living near people who need their witness.
Jesus tells us to “go out” and make disciples of all nations…not to withdraw into a community of like minded people.
Jesus tells us to “go out” and make disciples of all nations…not to withdraw into a community of like minded people.
S
setter
Guest
TPJCatholic said:I think the idea is understandable, but wrong. Jesus would not have us pull away from the world–imo. Rather, Jesus would have us living in the world as faithful Catholics. If a couple thousand faithful Catholics move to that town, then that is a couple thousand Catholics who are not living near people who need their witness.
Jesus tells us to “go out” and make disciples of all nations…not to withdraw into a community of like minded people.
Then the NCCB must also be wrong:
rc.net/org/cka/books/html/selection_two.html
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JB
Guest
It seems to me that this is not different in principle from communities of Religious Orders, only instead of being a community formed of indvidual men or women, it is a community formed of families. If this idea is wrong, does it follow that communities of Religious Orders, some of whom also have a charism of a life lived apart from the rest of the world, are also wrong?I think the idea is understandable, but wrong. Jesus would not have us pull away from the world–imo. Rather, Jesus would have us living in the world as faithful Catholics. If a couple thousand faithful Catholics move to that town, then that is a couple thousand Catholics who are not living near people who need their witness.
Jesus tells us to “go out” and make disciples of all nations…not to withdraw into a community of like minded people.
T
Thursday1
Guest
[whisper] City on a Hill. . . [/whisper]I think the idea is understandable, but wrong. Jesus would not have us pull away from the world–imo. Rather, Jesus would have us living in the world as faithful Catholics. If a couple thousand faithful Catholics move to that town, then that is a couple thousand Catholics who are not living near people who need their witness.
Jesus tells us to “go out” and make disciples of all nations…not to withdraw into a community of like minded people.
Yours in Christ,
Thursday
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TPJCatholic
Guest
JB,
I think satan hopes that many of these towns are created and that all of the faithful Catholics live in them.
The more I contemplate this idea, the more I think it is evil.
I think satan hopes that many of these towns are created and that all of the faithful Catholics live in them.
The more I contemplate this idea, the more I think it is evil.
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TPJCatholic
Guest
Thursday,
A city on the hill is visible to all. This town will merely take several thousand of our most faithful Catholics and hide them from the world. I cannot help but think this has satan written all over it.
First, let’s get the Priests to stray from the truth and fall into the horrors of child abuse…thereby placing a huge stain on the entire Priesthood and the faith.
Second, let us convince Catholis that they can “choose” what they want to follow, leading them to divorce, abort, contracept, fornicate, etc…
Third, let us hide the few remaining faithful Catholics in a town where they will be hidden from the rest of the world.
Now th
A city on the hill is visible to all. This town will merely take several thousand of our most faithful Catholics and hide them from the world. I cannot help but think this has satan written all over it.
First, let’s get the Priests to stray from the truth and fall into the horrors of child abuse…thereby placing a huge stain on the entire Priesthood and the faith.
Second, let us convince Catholis that they can “choose” what they want to follow, leading them to divorce, abort, contracept, fornicate, etc…
Third, let us hide the few remaining faithful Catholics in a town where they will be hidden from the rest of the world.
Now th
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JB
Guest
Why do you think Catholics living in such a community would be hidden from the rest of the world any more so than people living in any other neighborhood?
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TPJCatholic
Guest
JB,
Weak and marginal Catholics would not move to that town. Faithful, strong Catholics would. Faithful Catholics are known in the world by the way they live, the families they are part of the, the rosaries they say and carry, the way they teach Catechism classes, the way they give to the poor and help their fellow man, the way they make a big to-do they go to Mass and receive the sacraments…they live their faith in a way that people around them can see. Place them in an all Catholic town and those strong Catholics are almost as good as dead to the world.
This is an evil plan, it takes some of our very best people of faith and tucks them into a town that DOES NOT NEED THEM.
We are not on vacation, we are in this life to do God’s work. We are not supposed to be trying to create a Catholic utopia in this world, we are supposed to be helping people know Christ so that we can all share utpoialike conditions in Heaven–together.
Weak and marginal Catholics would not move to that town. Faithful, strong Catholics would. Faithful Catholics are known in the world by the way they live, the families they are part of the, the rosaries they say and carry, the way they teach Catechism classes, the way they give to the poor and help their fellow man, the way they make a big to-do they go to Mass and receive the sacraments…they live their faith in a way that people around them can see. Place them in an all Catholic town and those strong Catholics are almost as good as dead to the world.
This is an evil plan, it takes some of our very best people of faith and tucks them into a town that DOES NOT NEED THEM.
We are not on vacation, we are in this life to do God’s work. We are not supposed to be trying to create a Catholic utopia in this world, we are supposed to be helping people know Christ so that we can all share utpoialike conditions in Heaven–together.
J
john_ennis
Guest
Hope the town works, but I’m even more excited about the university. IT’S ABOUT TIME, don’t you all think? And it seems some great people are involved.
I encourage contributing to support it’s ongoing creation.
Peace.
John
I encourage contributing to support it’s ongoing creation.
Peace.
John
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TPJCatholic
Guest
“But, satan, what will you do to take God’s souls away from Him?”
“Ahhh, let me tell you my child:”
“First, I’ll convince Holy Priests to stray from the truth and fall into the horrors of child abuse…thereby placing a huge stain on the entire Priesthood and the faith.”
“Second, I will trick Priests into no longer preaching critical truths about me, about hell, about sin, about the need for confession and sin; thereby causing regular lay Catholics to not bother seeking forgiveness for their sins, making them feel that God does not really judge sin and that God would never allow anyone to go to hell. It will work so well that most people will not even believe in hell.”
“Third, I will trick Catholics into thinking they can “choose” what truths of the faith that they want to follow, leading them to divorce, abortion, contraception, fornication, rampant materialism, etc…”
“Fourth, I will trick the culture into thinking unnatural relations are fine…thereby making homosexual acts and transgendered acts seem fine, even preferable.”
“Fifth, I will trick the world into thinking traditional marriage is a bad thing; thereby pulling entire peoples of Europe and other nations away from another sacrament and away from building holy familes for God.”
“Sixth, I will trick people into thinking abusing people through pornography is actually a good thing.”
“Seventh, I will trick people into thinking traditional faith is antiquated and should not be followed.”
“Eight, I will raise up mega-Churches that do not speak against these thing and help people feel they can choose their own path.”
“Nine, I will trick the school teachers and principals into avoiding teaching the real faith in the name of being tolerant.”
“Ten, I will trick many of God’s clergy into not speaking out against these deceptions that I will pour all over the globe.”
"Eleventh, after I have reduced the faithful Catholic numbers down to small percentages, I will then set out to attack those faithful by appealing to their frustration with the lack of faith in the world. I will entice them to build a Catholic town and then trick the very best, brightest and most faithful of those Catholics into living in that town, so that thousands of my Catholic enemies will no longer be living near my children of the world. Perhaps I can even entice them to build a couple more Catholic towns, hiding good Catholics by even larger numbers."
"Ahhh–that wonderful Catholic city on the hill is going to be the city in the brush, hidden from view and not able to do me much harm. They will still spit at me now and then, but they will be completely ineffective behind the doors of their Catholic town, oblivious to the souls be deceived into hell just outside their city limits."
"This is going to be great. I think I’ll get started right away."
“Ahhh, let me tell you my child:”
“First, I’ll convince Holy Priests to stray from the truth and fall into the horrors of child abuse…thereby placing a huge stain on the entire Priesthood and the faith.”
“Second, I will trick Priests into no longer preaching critical truths about me, about hell, about sin, about the need for confession and sin; thereby causing regular lay Catholics to not bother seeking forgiveness for their sins, making them feel that God does not really judge sin and that God would never allow anyone to go to hell. It will work so well that most people will not even believe in hell.”
“Third, I will trick Catholics into thinking they can “choose” what truths of the faith that they want to follow, leading them to divorce, abortion, contraception, fornication, rampant materialism, etc…”
“Fourth, I will trick the culture into thinking unnatural relations are fine…thereby making homosexual acts and transgendered acts seem fine, even preferable.”
“Fifth, I will trick the world into thinking traditional marriage is a bad thing; thereby pulling entire peoples of Europe and other nations away from another sacrament and away from building holy familes for God.”
“Sixth, I will trick people into thinking abusing people through pornography is actually a good thing.”
“Seventh, I will trick people into thinking traditional faith is antiquated and should not be followed.”
“Eight, I will raise up mega-Churches that do not speak against these thing and help people feel they can choose their own path.”
“Nine, I will trick the school teachers and principals into avoiding teaching the real faith in the name of being tolerant.”
“Ten, I will trick many of God’s clergy into not speaking out against these deceptions that I will pour all over the globe.”
"Eleventh, after I have reduced the faithful Catholic numbers down to small percentages, I will then set out to attack those faithful by appealing to their frustration with the lack of faith in the world. I will entice them to build a Catholic town and then trick the very best, brightest and most faithful of those Catholics into living in that town, so that thousands of my Catholic enemies will no longer be living near my children of the world. Perhaps I can even entice them to build a couple more Catholic towns, hiding good Catholics by even larger numbers."
"Ahhh–that wonderful Catholic city on the hill is going to be the city in the brush, hidden from view and not able to do me much harm. They will still spit at me now and then, but they will be completely ineffective behind the doors of their Catholic town, oblivious to the souls be deceived into hell just outside their city limits."
"This is going to be great. I think I’ll get started right away."
J
JB
Guest
Probably, but vastly many more will not uproot their families, jobs or businesses to move to such a community. Contrariwise, some less-than-heroic Catholics might if there were other attractive reasons to do so, such as job opportunities or affordable housing.
Strong Catholics living in such a community aren’t going to stop doing any of these things. As to people around them seeing what they do, such a community as this isn’t an isolation biosphere where they are building a wall around themselves and never having any contact with the rest of the world again. They still will work with others outside their neighborhood, shop outside their neighborhood, enjoy recreational activities outside their neighborhood. People from outside their neighborhood will also come to them providing business services. To call them as good as dead to the world is really a quite bit of an exaggeration.
Furthermore, If the witness of individual Catholic Persons and families provides a valuable witness to the world, can you imagine the witness an entire such community might provide? The food pantries for the hungry bulging with food, the canteens and shelters for the homeless, the crisis centers offering alternatives to abortion and sheltering battered women? If such ministries can make a big difference in communities where they may only be actively be supported by 1% of the residents or less, imagine what these might do in a community where they might be actively supported by effectively 100% of all resident families, with full cooperation of local government and local public services. Far from being a situation in which the Catholic witness of a few individuals is lost to the notice of their former immediate neighbors, they might create a Catholic presence whose witness effects change for the better statewide, nationwide or worldwide.
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TPJCatholic
Guest
To all,
Thank you very much for a lively chat. No-one can ever claim that this site has people of weak mind!
I will end my thoughts with this:
Jews, moderate Catholics, Cafteria Catholics, Protestants, Muslims, Hindus, etc…will not likely want to live in that town.
So, who would want to live there? Answer: Faithful, well formed, educated Catholics…like all of you.
Ultimately, the people who need the town the most will not live there, and those who need the town the least will live there. And, if that happens, then the world will become a much more lonely place for people like me. I, and people like me, need you in the real world, in real parishes, teaching people who need it, talking to parish Priests about their abuses, being on school boards, being Catechists and being on various ministries, you are needed right smack dab in the middle of the world, right next to me with your spiritual sword in hand. I will miss you desparately because the harvest is plenty, but the workers are few and if you go to live in that town, the workers will be even fewer.
There needs to be more of Christ in the world–not less. There needs to be more people in places of great need who really love Christ…in the cities, in the neighborhoods, in the parishes, in the work place, in the parks, in the zoos, we need all of you in the middle of the world, not tucked safely away in a Catholic town.
You are a precious, valuable resource and your numbers are so few that it creates an even more scary world once you leave the world (which you will do when you move to that town).
One final thought: it is wrong to compare the town to Monastaries or covents or religious groups, the town will be none of the above, it will simply be another American town that has attracted God’s best lay foot-soliders into living a life away from the world.
Yet alas, I have done my very best to convince you and yet you remain unconvinced. So I bid you God’s blessings and hopefully we will encounter one another in Heaven.
Thanks for having patience with my passion for this passion.
God Bless.
Thank you very much for a lively chat. No-one can ever claim that this site has people of weak mind!
I will end my thoughts with this:
Jews, moderate Catholics, Cafteria Catholics, Protestants, Muslims, Hindus, etc…will not likely want to live in that town.
So, who would want to live there? Answer: Faithful, well formed, educated Catholics…like all of you.
Ultimately, the people who need the town the most will not live there, and those who need the town the least will live there. And, if that happens, then the world will become a much more lonely place for people like me. I, and people like me, need you in the real world, in real parishes, teaching people who need it, talking to parish Priests about their abuses, being on school boards, being Catechists and being on various ministries, you are needed right smack dab in the middle of the world, right next to me with your spiritual sword in hand. I will miss you desparately because the harvest is plenty, but the workers are few and if you go to live in that town, the workers will be even fewer.
There needs to be more of Christ in the world–not less. There needs to be more people in places of great need who really love Christ…in the cities, in the neighborhoods, in the parishes, in the work place, in the parks, in the zoos, we need all of you in the middle of the world, not tucked safely away in a Catholic town.
You are a precious, valuable resource and your numbers are so few that it creates an even more scary world once you leave the world (which you will do when you move to that town).
One final thought: it is wrong to compare the town to Monastaries or covents or religious groups, the town will be none of the above, it will simply be another American town that has attracted God’s best lay foot-soliders into living a life away from the world.
Yet alas, I have done my very best to convince you and yet you remain unconvinced. So I bid you God’s blessings and hopefully we will encounter one another in Heaven.
Thanks for having patience with my passion for this passion.
God Bless.
J
JB
Guest
Why is it wrong to make this comparison? True, it would not be exactly the same as a monastery or convent of a religious community of individual men or women, but just because a thing is different does not necessarily mean it is entirely dissimilar. Such a community might fulfull a role for surrounding communities somewhat analogous to the role of religious houses.
You have asserted several times that a community such as this would result in the loss of of Catholic witness to the rest of the world. While not common, such communities of fellow believers have been lived many times and places throughout history, begining with the time of the Apostles when:
Acts 2:42-47a:
Was the effect of this community a loss of Catholic witness, with the strongest Christians isolated from the rest of the larger community, effectively “dead to the rest of the world”? To the contrary:
Acts 2:47b:
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TPJCatholic
Guest
JB,
I personally feel that the Bible and Jesus Himself reflects that we are called to be fully in the world, living, teaching, and spreading the faith as lay Catholics. People called to religious vocations are often placed in different scenarios then normal everyday lay Catholics, there is no comparison between a religious in an order, versus a lay Catholic, other then their commonality of faith in Christ.
I feel that Catholic world has become litered with people who want to do almost nothing but study and receive formation…masters and doctoral degrees are being regularly pursued by lay Catholics (good stuff, but overkill imo). The truth is, Jesus’ apostles were not intellectuals. They were mostly common men that Jesus chose to pull from the world; Jesus trained them, formed them, and then sent them back into the world to spread His message. That same method should be used today…train, form, sent out into the world.
We could go tow-to-tow on Scripture references for days, yet in the end you are not going to change your mind because you view the town as a good idea. I see that 99.999999% of the time on this site, people simply do not change their minds…it becomes an increasingly obvious waste of time to post here…imo.
You might take note that I originally felt that the town was a great idea, yet upon further comtemplation I have personally concluded that it is a terrible idea that will do nothing but make satan smile.
Yet, I know you will not agree.
Take care and God Bless–this is likely my final post on this site.
I personally feel that the Bible and Jesus Himself reflects that we are called to be fully in the world, living, teaching, and spreading the faith as lay Catholics. People called to religious vocations are often placed in different scenarios then normal everyday lay Catholics, there is no comparison between a religious in an order, versus a lay Catholic, other then their commonality of faith in Christ.
I feel that Catholic world has become litered with people who want to do almost nothing but study and receive formation…masters and doctoral degrees are being regularly pursued by lay Catholics (good stuff, but overkill imo). The truth is, Jesus’ apostles were not intellectuals. They were mostly common men that Jesus chose to pull from the world; Jesus trained them, formed them, and then sent them back into the world to spread His message. That same method should be used today…train, form, sent out into the world.
We could go tow-to-tow on Scripture references for days, yet in the end you are not going to change your mind because you view the town as a good idea. I see that 99.999999% of the time on this site, people simply do not change their minds…it becomes an increasingly obvious waste of time to post here…imo.
You might take note that I originally felt that the town was a great idea, yet upon further comtemplation I have personally concluded that it is a terrible idea that will do nothing but make satan smile.
Yet, I know you will not agree.
Take care and God Bless–this is likely my final post on this site.
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