Don’t be afraid of love

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Vianneyizer said:
To a fool this may sound wise indeed with your picturesque scene of great oak trees and capitalized Dawning Places, but to me you have answered with nothing more than a smokescreen. It is like the glint of a blade that attracts the eyes attention just as the sword cuts into the flesh. You have reasoned Jesus as an oak tree and Baha’u’llah as a tulip poplar and God as the sun that shines upon them. However, I clearly stated in my challenge that you cannot reason this way because it discounts the actuality of a fleshly lordship. Where on Earth is an oak tree a tulip polar? And where do you find a tulip poplar that is actually an oak tree? I will tell you where? In a man made religion that draws a picture of an oak tree on a wall and underneath that picture writes the words “tulip poplar.” Very clever (and fully deceptive) to a man who knows nothing of trees yet wants knowledge that comes easy. He looks at your picture and next time he walks through the woods with his child he points to an oak tree and says, “look my son, a tulip poplar.” And thus falacy begets falacy as the blind lead the blind. And then, even when this man meets a master arborist, one who has studied oak trees for his entire life, that tells him, “no, my friend, that is not a tulip poplar, it’s an oak tree,” this man will still refute him even though he knows in his heart that his true knowledge of oak trees is lacking, so much so that really all he ever sees are tulip poplars. Oh how difficult it is for this man to ever find truth because, like the old zen master once said as he poured tea until it overflowed, “your cup is already filled with your own mind. To learn anything you must first empty your cup.” I am disappointed in you for not meeting me head on but rather trying to dazzle us with artistic and prosaic enlightenment.

May you always find grace in the heart of our savior -

Zachary
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May I humbly ask you to really study and explore deeply the attributes of the World of God, the World of the Kingdom in both Catholic and Bahai theology.

You may be surprised as to what you may find 🙂

.
 
Vianneyizer said:
To a fool this may sound wise indeed with your picturesque scene of great oak trees and capitalized Dawning Places, but to me you have answered with nothing more than a smokescreen. It is like the glint of a blade that attracts the eyes attention just as the sword cuts into the flesh. You have reasoned Jesus as an oak tree and Baha’u’llah as a tulip poplar and God as the sun that shines upon them. However, I clearly stated in my challenge that you cannot reason this way because it discounts the actuality of a fleshly lordship. Where on Earth is an oak tree a tulip polar? And where do you find a tulip poplar that is actually an oak tree? I will tell you where? In a man made religion that draws a picture of an oak tree on a wall and underneath that picture writes the words “tulip poplar.” Very clever (and fully deceptive) to a man who knows nothing of trees yet wants knowledge that comes easy. He looks at your picture and next time he walks through the woods with his child he points to an oak tree and says, “look my son, a tulip poplar.” And thus falacy begets falacy as the blind lead the blind. And then, even when this man meets a master arborist, one who has studied oak trees for his entire life, that tells him, “no, my friend, that is not a tulip poplar, it’s an oak tree,” this man will still refute him even though he knows in his heart that his true knowledge of oak trees is lacking, so much so that really all he ever sees are tulip poplars. Oh how difficult it is for this man to ever find truth because, like the old zen master once said as he poured tea until it overflowed, “your cup is already filled with your own mind. To learn anything you must first empty your cup.” I am disappointed in you for not meeting me head on but rather trying to dazzle us with artistic and prosaic enlightenment.

May you always find grace in the heart of our savior -

Zachary
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Just one more thing dear brother…

The focus of Matthews reasoning was not what the sun shines on, the focus was the Sun itself, and it’s differing dawning places 🙂

.
 
This is a good discussion on Love given by Abdul’Baha

THE FOUR KINDS OF LOVE

97 Cadogan Gardens, London, Saturday, January 4th, 1913

What a power is love! It is the most wonderful, the greatest of all living powers.
Love gives life to the lifeless. Love lights a flame in the heart that is cold. Love brings hope to the hopeless and gladdens the hearts of the sorrowful.

In the world of existence there is indeed no greater power than the power of love. When the heart of man is aglow with the flame of love, he is ready to sacrifice all—even his life.

In the Gospel it is said God is love.

There are four kinds of love. The first is the love that flows from God to man; it consists of the inexhaustible graces, the Divine effulgence and heavenly illumination. Through this love the world of being receives life. Through this love man is endowed with physical existence, until, through the breath of the Holy Spirit—this same love—he receives eternal life and becomes the image of the Living God. This love is the origin of all the love in the world of creation.

The second is the love that flows from man to God. This is faith, attraction to the Divine, enkindlement, progress, entrance into the Kingdom of God, receiving the Bounties of God, illumination with the lights of the Kingdom. This love is the origin of all philanthropy; this love causes the hearts of men to reflect the rays of the Sun of Reality.

The third is the love of God towards the Self or Identity of God. This is the transfiguration of His Beauty, the reflection of Himself in the mirror of His Creation. This is the reality of love, the Ancient Love, the Eternal Love. Through one ray of this Love all other love exists.

The fourth is the love of man for man. The love which exists between the hearts of believers is prompted by the ideal of the unity of spirits. This love is attained through the knowledge of God, so that men see the Divine Love reflected in the heart. Each sees in the other the Beauty of God reflected in the soul, and finding this point of similarity, they are attracted to one another in love. This love will make all men the waves of one sea, this love will make them all the stars of one heaven and the fruits of one tree. This love will bring the realization of true accord, the foundation of real unity.
But the love which sometimes exists between friends is not (true) love, because it is subject to transmutation; this is merely fascination. As the breeze blows, the slender trees yield. If the wind is in the East the tree leans to the West, and if the wind turns to the West the tree leans to the East. This kind of love is originated by the accidental conditions of life. This is not love, it is merely acquaintanceship; it is subject to change.
Today you will see two souls apparently in close friendship; tomorrow all this may be changed. Yesterday they were ready to die for one another, today they shun one another’s society! This is not love; it is the yielding of the hearts to the accidents of life. When that which has caused this ‘love’ to exist passes, the love passes also; this is not in reality love.

Love is only of the four kinds that I have explained. (a) The love of God towards the identity of God. Christ has said God is Love. (b) The love of God for His children—for His servants. (c) The love of man for God and (d) the love of man for man. These four kinds of love originate from God. These are rays from the Sun of Reality; these are the Breathings of the Holy Spirit; these are the Signs of the Reality.

reference.bahai.org/en/t/ab/PT/pt-59.html

God Bless all with His Unconditional Love - Regards Tony
 
To a fool this may sound wise indeed
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"But I say to you, that whosoever is angry with his brother, shall be in danger of the judgment. And whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council. And whosoever shall say, Thou Fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. " - Matthew 5:22
You have reasoned Jesus as an oak tree and Baha’u’llah as a tulip poplar and God as the sun that shines upon them.
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No, Christ is the Divine Sun Himself.
 
Ah well it has been fun. However, I see myself being almost drawn into your world and so I must depart before, by defending myself, I become a fool in my boasting. You speak about what you do not practice (Catholicism) and claim to worship one who you do not know (Jesus) and all the while you can never once provide a single reasonable or sensible retort - only accusations and insinuations. I have no guile in me and do not profess to be in league with any of you Baha’i-sts, for, as St. Paul teaches us, “if any man bring unto you any other gospel other than that delivered unto you by me, let him be accursed.” However, I truly hope, for all men not only yourselves, that you belong to Jesus and will be granted the gift of everlasting life.

Amen and God bless all men for the sake of Christ -

Zachary
 
Vianneyizer said:
Ah well it has been fun. However, I see myself being almost drawn into your world and so I must depart before, by defending myself, I become a fool in my boasting. You speak about what you do not practice (Catholicism) and claim to worship one who you do not know (Jesus) and all the while you can never once provide a single reasonable or sensible retort - only accusations and insinuations. I have no guile in me and do not profess to be in league with any of you Baha’i-sts, for, as St. Paul teaches us, “if any man bring unto you any other gospel other than that delivered unto you by me, let him be accursed.” However, I truly hope, for all men not only yourselves, that you belong to Jesus and will be granted the gift of everlasting life.

Amen and God bless all men for the sake of Christ -

Zachary
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Dear friend in God

What specific retorts are you looking for? If you asked a question and you are not satisfied by the answer please advise us and we will try to clarify.

Which of the posters accused you, what insinuations?

I was under the impression that your aim was to “out-love” the Baha’is, but calling a poster a fool is a bit harsh don’t you think?

Happy to dialogue further if you wish 🙂

.
 
Absolutely not, I have no such intention to “out-love” anybody - such is simply the natural outpouring of The Holy Spirit. Let us not forget, as St. Paul said, “love does not delight in evil but rejoices in the truth.” You advise me to study further, thereby insinuating that I have not studied enough. You accuse me of calling you a fool but perhaps you have not read my words carefully enough. If you are pricked in your own self to think that I talk about you at even the mearest mention of the word “fool” that is no problem of mine. I will not say you are fools but I will say you are very mistaken in your theology. And that is not even to say you will miss out on Heaven (you know Catholics are ecumenical), only that you do not serve Jesus Christ. I come to proclaim Jesus Christ as lord and savior and will not be dissuaded. As The Apostles Creed says, set down from the beginning, “I believe in God The Father Almighty, creator of Heaven and Earth, and HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON, Jesus Christ Our Lord…” You do not serve Christ and yet you proclaim that you do, this should not be so. By doing this you trample under foot every single belief and tradition of Christianity, and especially the most important understanding - that Jesus Christ came in the flesh and reigns still in the flesh. Yet somehow you cannot understand. Worship your God and serve your prophet but why must you in so doing destroy every other religion in the process? Islam proclaims Mohamed as God’s sole prophet - you trample that under foot. We proclaim Christ as The Savior of The World who took the sins of man upon himself in the flesh - you trample that. And what’s worse, you turn around and use our own Sacred Scripture (discarding Sacred Tradition just like Protestants) against us as if you, who neither practices or lives by it, would know it better than us. I do not use Sacred Scripture as a weapon to bash people over the head with - this is not the proper use for something that is holy. You could care less and use it to accuse me of sin (not you but your brother) - shame on you. In short, there is no debate because you don’t care who’s religion you destroy because clearly that is the very essence of your religion - that all other religions are wrong in their supposition of being right. And I do not care because I am simply doing what is right - defending the faith that rests in Jesus Christ alone. So let us close this pointless debate. I had thought perhaps I spoke to men who would hear sound logic but clearly I was wrong. I hold nothing against you. Go on your way in peace and grace.

Be well, and may the light if Jesus Christ shine always upon your path -

Zachary
 
Vianneyizer said:
Absolutely not, I have no such intention to “out-love” anybody - such is simply the natural outpouring of The Holy Spirit. Let us not forget, as St. Paul said, “love does not delight in evil but rejoices in the truth.” You advise me to study further, thereby insinuating that I have not studied enough. You accuse me of calling you a fool but perhaps you have not read my words carefully enough. If you are pricked in your own self to think that I talk about you at even the mearest mention of the word “fool” that is no problem of mine. I will not say you are fools but I will say you are very mistaken in your theology. And that is not even to say you will miss out on Heaven (you know Catholics are ecumenical), only that you do not serve Jesus Christ. I come to proclaim Jesus Christ as lord and savior and will not be dissuaded. As The Apostles Creed says, set down from the beginning, “I believe in God The Father Almighty, creator of Heaven and Earth, and HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON, Jesus Christ Our Lord…” You do not serve Christ and yet you proclaim that you do, this should not be so. By doing this you trample under foot every single belief and tradition of Christianity, and especially the most important understanding - that Jesus Christ came in the flesh and reigns still in the flesh. Yet somehow you cannot understand. Worship your God and serve your prophet but why must you in so doing destroy every other religion in the process? Islam proclaims Mohamed as God’s sole prophet - you trample that under foot. We proclaim Christ as The Savior of The World who took the sins of man upon himself in the flesh - you trample that. And what’s worse, you turn around and use our own Sacred Scripture (discarding Sacred Tradition just like Protestants) against us as if you, who neither practices or lives by it, would know it better than us. I do not use Sacred Scripture as a weapon to bash people over the head with - this is not the proper use for something that is holy. You could care less and use it to accuse me of sin (not you but your brother) - shame on you. In short, there is no debate because you don’t care who’s religion you destroy because clearly that is the very essence of your religion - that all other religions are wrong in their supposition of being right. And I do not care because I am simply doing what is right - defending the faith that rests in Jesus Christ alone. So let us close this pointless debate. I had thought perhaps I spoke to men who would hear sound logic but clearly I was wrong. I hold nothing against you. Go on your way in peace and grace.

Be well, and may the light if Jesus Christ shine always upon your path -

Zachary
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Thankyou Zac 🙂

With love and best wishes my friend.

God bless you!

.
 
Vianneyizer,

Dear friend and valiant brother in Christ, take heart in your labor to respond to God’s Grace. 🙂

All this mumbo jumbo aside, it boils down to the new Eve fortold in Genesis and through her, Immaculata, brought, and continues to bring forth, the Son of God, who merited salvation from Calvary and established His one true catholic church, where our Mother Mary leads poor sinners back to God.

Those who are not catholic and in mortal sin need to get to RCIA and into that confessional box with a holy priest and reconcile with our Saviour, before Jesus gives up on them (period).
Listen close. The time is ticking!

“If anyone does not wish to have Mary Immaculate for his Mother, he will not have Christ for his Brother.”
~Saint Maximilian Kolbe, Martyr, 1894-1941 AD
 
Googler said:
Vianneyizer,

Dear friend and valiant brother in Christ, take heart in your labor to respond to God’s Grace. 🙂

All this mumbo jumbo aside, it boils down to the new Eve fortold in Genesis and through her, Immaculata, brought, and continues to bring forth, the Son of God, who merited salvation from Calvary and established His one true catholic church, where our Mother Mary leads poor sinners back to God.

Those who are not catholic and in mortal sin need to get to RCIA and into that confessional box with a holy priest and reconcile with our Saviour, before Jesus gives up on them (period).
Listen close. The time is ticking!

“If anyone does not wish to have Mary Immaculate for his Mother, he will not have Christ for his Brother.”
~Saint Maximilian Kolbe, Martyr, 1894-1941 AD
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You are so very right, my friend. And speaking of Our Lady, she led me this day away from making a terrible mistake. Oh it was so amazing, my brother, how subtly The Holy Spirit worked upon my heart to say, “what would Our Lady do in this moment.” I pray God that this may be the very foundation of my faith: at any and every time may I ask myself what The Blessed Mother would do. And to think, I almost caused my own mother such intense pain in that, because that I sought my own way, I almost sent her on her way without discussing the desires of her heart to speak with me about my childhood and of things ugly and saddening. Then, in the last moment, as she was already pulling her car away, I remembered my scapular promise and dashed out the door in bare feet to whistle her down. Oh, and talk we did - over much tears. I never knew what sorrow my mother held in her heart because of certain mistakes she made. Had I let her go home, and then, seeing the pain I caused by not listening (perhaps sometime in Heaven when all secret things are brought to light) I would have surely collapsed in absolute grief. I am so very very grateful for Our Lady and most especially her Immaculate Heart.

With much love and gladness in The Faith -

Zachary
 
Vianneyizer said:
You are so very right, my friend. And speaking of Our Lady, she led me this day away from making a terrible mistake. Oh it was so amazing, my brother, how subtly The Holy Spirit worked upon my heart to say, “what would Our Lady do in this moment.” I pray God that this may be the very foundation of my faith: at any and every time may I ask myself what The Blessed Mother would do. And to think, I almost caused my own mother such intense pain in that, because that I sought my own way, I almost sent her on her way without discussing the desires of her heart to speak with me about my childhood and of things ugly and saddening. Then, in the last moment, as she was already pulling her car away, I remembered my scapular promise and dashed out the door in bare feet to whistle her down. Oh, and talk we did - over much tears. I never knew what sorrow my mother held in her heart because of certain mistakes she made. Had I let her go home, and then, seeing the pain I caused by not listening (perhaps sometime in Heaven when all secret things are brought to light) I would have surely collapsed in absolute grief. I am so very very grateful for Our Lady and most especially her Immaculate Heart.

With much love and gladness in The Faith -

Zachary
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Thank you for sharing that.
I’m so grateful Mary sent the Spirit to have you come to your senses. That talk may have changed your Mom’s destiny.
We ought think more of our mothers and less of ourselves.
After about seven years of seeing my mother suffer dementia and finally passing, I only wish I would’ve hugged and told her I loved her more often.
❤️
 
Saint John Marie Vianney’s reflection on Jn 19:25-27
The Father takes pleasure in looking upon the heart of the most Holy Virgin Mary, as the masterpiece of His hands; for we always like our own work, especially when it is well done. The Son takes pleasure in it as the heart of His Mother, the source from which He drew the Blood that has ransomed us; the Holy Ghost as His temple. The Prophets published the glory of Mary before her birth; they compared her to the sun.
The Holy Virgin has brought us forth twice, in the Incarnation and at the foot of the Cross; she is then doubly our Mother.
The most Holy Virgin places herself between her Son and us.
The Ave Maria is a prayer that is never wearisome. The devotion to the Holy Virgin is delicious, sweet, nourishing. When we talk on earthly subjects or politics, we grow weary; but when we talk of the Holy Virgin, it is always new. All the saints have a great devotion to Our Lady; no grace comes from Heaven without passing through her hands. We cannot go into a house without speaking to the porter; well, the Holy Virgin is the portress of Heaven.
All that the Son asks of the Father is granted Him. All that the Mother asks of the Son is in like manner granted to her. When we have handled something fragrant, our hands perfume whatever they touch: let our prayers pass through the hands of the Holy Virgin; she will perfume them. I think that at the end of the world the Blessed Virgin will be very tranquil; but while the world lasts, we drag her in all directions. . . . The Holy Virgin is like a mother who has a great many children–she is continually occupied in going from one to the other.
 
Googler said:
Saint John Marie Vianney’s reflection on Jn 19:25-27
The Father takes pleasure in looking upon the heart of the most Holy Virgin Mary, as the masterpiece of His hands; for we always like our own work, especially when it is well done. The Son takes pleasure in it as the heart of His Mother, the source from which He drew the Blood that has ransomed us; the Holy Ghost as His temple. The Prophets published the glory of Mary before her birth; they compared her to the sun.
The Holy Virgin has brought us forth twice, in the Incarnation and at the foot of the Cross; she is then doubly our Mother.
The most Holy Virgin places herself between her Son and us.
The Ave Maria is a prayer that is never wearisome. The devotion to the Holy Virgin is delicious, sweet, nourishing. When we talk on earthly subjects or politics, we grow weary; but when we talk of the Holy Virgin, it is always new. All the saints have a great devotion to Our Lady; no grace comes from Heaven without passing through her hands. We cannot go into a house without speaking to the porter; well, the Holy Virgin is the portress of Heaven.
All that the Son asks of the Father is granted Him. All that the Mother asks of the Son is in like manner granted to her. When we have handled something fragrant, our hands perfume whatever they touch: let our prayers pass through the hands of the Holy Virgin; she will perfume them. I think that at the end of the world the Blessed Virgin will be very tranquil; but while the world lasts, we drag her in all directions. . . . The Holy Virgin is like a mother who has a great many children–she is continually occupied in going from one to the other.
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And such is the reason I spread devotion to this blessed saint. He has led me, both by his intercession and his life, to a greater depth of love than I could ever imagined. He has pointed me towards Our Lady, inspired me to always carry a rosary, encouraged devotion to his patroness beloved St. Philomena virgin and martyr, steered me away from sinful vices, and been the constant companion of my soul. Thank you for sharing an excellent quote from this saint that I love so deeply. I can only pray all Catholics will turn their eyes to venerate The Cure of Ars.

May the depth of Christs love guide you -

Zachary
 
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