Don't Ask Don't Tell Communion Policy!?

[malphono]

It should not be too difficult to determine which residents are Catholic, if not from the facility itself (which should know), then from the family or asking them about the parish they were previously in.

I’ve never heard of a hospitals or nursing homes that did not record that information. From my experience, lists are available for the chaplains so they know who of their flock is there. And I believe those lists are usually updated on a daily basis to include additions, deletions, and changes of location.

 

[OraLabora]

It’s hard to change the mentality when Protestant ministers regularly present themselves at Communion. If anyone should know better it should be them, especially in light of the media circus that resulted from our Evangelical Prime Minister receiving Communion at the funeral of a Catholic politician last year. Yet they regularly present themselves, usually in clerical garb, and are given Communion.

What about the case of Brother Roger?

 

[oneGODoneCHURCH]

But that’s a common problem. People regularly use the word senile in the UK to mean a person who has a disease of the central nervous system. The correct use of the word senile means old age. I remember a former colleague using the phrase: “I’ve reached the statutory age of senility”. She was using the term correctly. She’d reached 65 the legal retirement age in the UK, the age which in effect the law said she was “old”. My objection to the misuse of this word is that a word which means old has become confused as a word that means someone has a dementia-type illness. This then leads to discrimination against older persons where they’re all labelled as having lost their mental faculties. That is wrong and unacceptable.

from the merriam webster dictionary
Definition of SENILE
1: of, relating to, exhibiting, or characteristic of old age ; especially : exhibiting a loss of cognitive abilities (as memory) associated with old age
2: approaching the end of a geological cycle of erosion
merriam-webster.com/dictionary/senile

i have bolden and red the changed part. So it seems that loss of mental facilties does fall into the defination of senial.

 

[Petergee]

RCIA in a nursing home!!! now i’ve heard it all. Have you ever worked in a nursing home?

Why should we deny to residents of nursing homes the benefits of learning about and making an informed decision to join the Catholic Church, which we offer to everybody else? If a person is already an Episcopalian or Lutheran, the amount to learn in RCIA is not huge. Of course if a candidate has a reduced mental capacity the lessons would be appropriately tailored to his abilities.

God forbid we should ever err on the side of “compassion” by giving someone who is not a fully confirmed Catholic, communion when they’re at the last outpost before entering death’s door. Pitiful.

It is not “compassion” to give Ciommunion to somebody who is not in a fit state to receive it. It may very well endanger his immortal soul, especially if he is at death’s door. The compassionate thing isNOT to give out Communion willy-nilly.
And if you’ve ever worked in a nursing home you’ll know few people are at death’s door. Some residents stay in nursing homes for many years or even decades.

 

[Petergee]

But that’s a common problem. People regularly use the word senile in the UK to mean a person who has a disease of the central nervous system. The correct use of the word senile means old age. I remember a former colleague using the phrase: “I’ve reached the statutory age of senility”. She was using the term correctly. She’d reached 65 the legal retirement age in the UK, the age which in effect the law said she was “old”. My objection to the misuse of this word is that a word which means old has become confused as a word that means someone has a dementia-type illness. This then leads to discrimination against older persons where they’re all labelled as having lost their mental faculties. That is wrong and unacceptable.

Actually to be perfectly correct, your former colleague is “anile” (from Latin anus, anilis, old woman) not senile (from Latin senex, senilis, old man - from the same base root as senator and senior - both words taken directly from Latin unchanged).

 

[rebecca123]

Yes, some people live in nursing homes for many years, including stroke patients who are on feeding tubes and can’t move or speak, alzheimer’s patients, demented patients, and even some hospice patients. The nursing homes I’ve worked in had very few people up walking around taking care of themselves, they wouldn’t be there if they could do that.

Usually there aren’t too many clergy of any kind around either.

my best friend is a charge nurse in a nursing home, she told me the priest often offers communion to her patients who aren’t Catholic. I can’t be certain he is a Catholic priest but she states he is.

Perhaps as someone said, some people’s time can pass to make a decision to be Catholic and receive the sacraments. All the more reason to be diligent about the Catholic faith while we can I suppose.

I think I’m wrong, the eucharist is a serious issue and shouldn’t be given randomly even in a nursing home. Maybe some type of adapted RCIA program really could work. It is sad in nursing homes though.

 

[Matthew_Holford]

You should really think before you speak.

You should follow your own advice.

You “conveniently” quoted me out of context. I suggest that you read my whole post again and do not be too rash to judge someone.

 

[Matthew_Holford]

One can be as “politically correct” as one pleases,

It is not political correctness. It is anti-discrimination - two separate things.

but no, it is not “generally used to label older persons” anything.

Yes, it is.

On the contrary, the usage is quite specific.

No it is not.

Shame the “politically correct” cannot see that. (It rather reminds of their insistence on “inclusive language” (among other things) but I digress.)

Anti-discrimination is not political correctness. Anti-discrimination is Christian. It has absolutely nothing to do with inclusive language and it’s clear where you’re going with that.

And thus concludes my involvement in this tangent.

Well, I for one am pleased about that.

 

[malphono]

It is not political correctness. It is anti-discrimination - two separate things.

Whatever floats your boat.

Well, I for one am pleased about that.

Jolly good.

And now, on to the ignore list.

 

[FirstCalled]

For those whom I know should not receive, I would do my best to gently explain they shouldn’t receive, and if they still approched me to recieve then… well awkward… but hopefully they’d be ok receiving a** blessing** and being moved along with out causing too much fuss.

Fortunetly for me at least this isn’t a problem, my friends are generally spiritually honest enough (and well informed enough) to know whether or not they should receive.

You are not supposed to give a blessing in the Communion line period, as the priest gives a general blessing immediately following. The Communion line is only for that, period.

 

[Matthew_Holford]

Actually to be perfectly correct, your former colleague is “anile” (from Latin anus, anilis, old woman) not senile (from Latin senex, senilis, old man - from the same base root as senator and senior - both words taken directly from Latin unchanged).

We are speaking English not Latin. From the Oxford English Dictionary:
the word ‘anile’ is not listed; “‘senile’: adjective and noun. Adjective - 1. of or characteristic of old age. 2. having the weaknesses or diseases of old age. Noun a senile person.”

 

[Petergee]

We are speaking English not Latin. From the Oxford English Dictionary:
the word ‘anile’ is not listed;

Oh yes it is:
en.wiktionary.org/wiki/anile

 

[Mrs_Sally]

Here’s the situation: For a long time those in our parish who take Communion to the elderly in a nursing home have distributed Communion to virtually anyone who wants to receive. They do this with full knowledge that more than a few are not Catholic. And it appears that the pastor is fully aware of this. I don’t doubt it. A new deacon at the parish goes to the nursing home and explains what the Church teaches and believes about the Eucharist and about receiving Communion. There is an outcry and indignation from some of the recipients and also from the lay people who have previously distributed Communion to these people. They demand/insist that they should be allowed to receive even though some identify themselves as Episcopalians, Lutherans or whatever. The deacon decides to take the “pastoral” approach. He suggests that if they really believe what the Church teaches he won’t stop them from receiving and he doesn’t want to know whether or not they are Catholic. A “don’t ask, don’t tell” Communion policy. He acknowledges he is somewhat uncomfortable with this but he feels this is more compassionate and pastoral to the elderly. He realizes he may be rationalizing. He also suggests that an alternative to a difficult situation would be to just leave this ministry to someone else. I briefly discussed this situation with him. What should be done?

Our parish also distributes communion in a nursing home and retirement community. The process we use is to get a list from the home of those residents who have listed themselves as Catholic on their forms. We then only distribute communion to those people. Now it is possible that someone has said they are Catholic who are not, but I doubt it.

In your situation, someone who self-identifies as Luthern or Methodist should not be receiving communion. It maybe that some of these elderly people were baptized Catholic and have fallen away from the church. In that case, the priest should offer sacramental confession before they receive again.

Holy Communion is not a tool of ecumenism. If the elderly there are missing the rites of their own faith practice, than someone from your parish should perhaps contact the local Lutheran or Methodist churches to see if they will arrange visitors to their own members. Or perhaps a special RCIA program for the nursing home is in order.

 

[Mrs_Sally]

Simple. The Parish Priest should tell his Episcopalian and Lutheran counterparts at the local Ministers’ Fraternal meeting, “Hey, there’s a bunch of your parishioners at the local nursing home who want to receive communion. Do you want to arrange it, or is it OK if I arrange RCIA classes for them so that they can become Catholics and receive communion from us?”

Excellent answer! And the RCIA program can certainly be adapted for use in the nursing home!

 

[Matthew_Holford]

Oh yes it is:
en.wiktionary.org/wiki/anile

Would you please kindly read what I wrote.

I said that the word ‘anile’ was not in the Oxford English Dictionary. I did not say that it wasn’t in another dictionary. Plus, the definition that is in your link would not apply to my former colleague; she was neither a ‘crone’ or ‘feeble’.

Your linked website references the 2nd edition of the Oxford English Dictionary. I checked in the 8th edition, which is obviously more up-to-date than the 2nd edition.

 

[mdgspencer]

Of course it is not practical to explain to each person individually. However, the deacon went in and was able to explain this to the residents generally–so it was possible to let them all know the Catholic position in the matter. This intervention too turned up serious abuses in the distribution of communion. The question was not about the interrogation of each person but about how the complaints from the non-Catholics already receiving communion should be faced.

Its not practical to interrogate each person who wishes to receive communion and its not possible with some in nursing homes.
The parish should make clear to the nursing home that they come to bring the eucharist to Catholic residents. Occasionally a few nonCatholics are going to “sneak through” but that’s just the way it goes.

 

[mdgspencer]

I have been thinking about this situation. You say the local mental health center sends patients for their amusement, and that then they go to communion. Couldn’t those responsible at the mental health center be informed of the problem? Even if they continue to send their patients, don’t they send a staff member with the patients? If they do, then the staff member could tell the patients to stay seated.
I wonder too. It sounds as if the patients would be totally oblivious to what the eucharist is, especially because almost everyone in Japan belongs to the Shinto and Buddist religions, if I am correct. And perhaps they are mentally incompetant. Could they be taking the eucharist with them, perhaps later throwing it into the trash, eating it for dessert, or who knows what?
Perhaps you could mention this to the priest?

Hello,

A little different take on the OP’s situation. I live in Japan. In my parish it seems the local mental health day care center sends some of it’s patients to mass to amuse them. They like the singing I guess. I never fail to see 2 or 3 obviously not quite all there people approaching for communion. They simply do what everyone else is doing. Only once did I see an elderly “Church Lady” pull one of these people out of line and sit them down. Usually they are allowed to receive, typically by the Eucharistic Ministers.

Now I don’t know if they are baptized, frankly I don’t see how they could have possibly completed RCIA, and since there are few child baptisms here I assume that they are not.

It seems the “don’t ask don’t tell” policy is in full practice. Obviously they are incapable of committing a sin in receiving, but the policy of allowing them to do so seems to be to avoid “problems”.

An odd situation, and I can’t say what I would really do were I the priest offering the mass.
Would a fight with a screaming mental patient be better than allowing reception where clearly there is no ill intent?

Regards,
W.Unland

 

[Anrando]

I have been thinking about this situation. You say the local mental health center sends patients for their amusement, and that then they go to communion. Couldn’t those responsible at the mental health center be informed of the problem? Even if they continue to send their patients, don’t they send a staff member with the patients? If they do, then the staff member could tell the patients to stay seated.
I wonder too. It sounds as if the patients would be totally oblivious to what the eucharist is, especially because almost everyone in Japan belongs to the Shinto and Buddist religions, if I am correct. And perhaps they are mentally incompetant. Could they be taking the eucharist with them, perhaps later throwing it into the trash, eating it for dessert, or who knows what?
Perhaps you could mention this to the priest?

Hello,

The staff don’t actually “send” patients to the church. it is day care and the patients are free to come and go as they please. Mental health care here is VERY different than in other countries. They are not medicated, and seem to be able to function on a basic level BUT they are clearly “diminished”. Some hang around the train station to watch the trains, others seem to gravitate to the church.

I have watched them and they do actually consume the Eucharist. I have never witnessed any abuse, but clearly they have no idea what is going on. They are merely copying what they see others doing. I think the priest sees them as little children which can’t be harmed by there exposure to church, perhaps they are even helped. I don’t know. But to me it is a very curious situation, and as an “outsider” I am hesitant to make a fuss. ( by outsider I mean the only non Japanese)

Japan is a very non-religious country. People here play Shinto when they get married and Buddhist when they die. They do NOT practice any religion for the most part. I really haven’t figured out how deep the faith of the Catholics are as they are all legacy Catholics. Some do indeed seem pious people, but the depth of their faith is unknown to me.

Regards,
Bill Unland

 

[sedonaman]

… What should be done?

Ask them that if receiving Communion is that important to them, why don’t they become Catholic? Their answers will probably tell you why they shouldn’t be receiving it.

P.S. See my signature quote below.

 

[thequeen]

Non Ctholics should not receive communion in a Catholic Church PERIOD!!!Your deacon is totally way out of line on this one at the same time Catholics should not receive in any protestant church either because they do not believe in the real presence