"Don't Ask Don't Tell" Military Policy

[doanli]

What is the Church’s view on this? Should it be repealed or not?

I think “no” because then it would be a stamp of approval on the practice of homosexuality which is against God’s law (and which is addressed in the Bible).

I cannot believe the ANGER of those on the other side and how they try to make you feel so awful.

 

[michaeldaniels]

No…it will ruin moral, destroy unit cohesiveness…hurt recruiting, cause tension, strife, etc…these men don’t need to be focused on whether or not the person they are taking a shower with or sharing a fox hole with is gay…they need to be focused on things that will save their lives and their brothers in arms lives…also you have the health aspect with HIV, etc…it is bad no matter how you look at it. In my opinion, the only reason they should do away with Don’t ask, don’t tell, is in order to implement a Zero Tolerance policy.

 

[GeorgeSword]

I wonder how much it will change? Gays are already in the military, just not openly. I don’t think it will change much of anything. But what worries me is that it is the first down a perilous road, towards the full integration and acceptance into society of homosexual practices.

 

[hellopeople]

I think “no” because then it would be a stamp of approval on the practice of homosexuality which is against God’s law (and which is addressed in the Bible).

This view is nonsense. If you were hiring people for a job, and the person that was most qualified by far was a homosexual, would you not hire them because you would be putting a stamp of approval on homosexuality?

 

[hellopeople]

I wonder how much it will change? Gays are already in the military, just not openly. I don’t think it will change much of anything. But what worries me is that it is the first down a perilous road, towards the full integration and acceptance into society of homosexual practices.

I think there should be a full integration and acceptance of homosexual practices in society. Why persecute these people because they are sexually attracted to people of the same gender? Should we force them to be straight? Should we force them to stay in the closet? This is like the inquisition but with gays instead of muslims and jews.

 

[michaeldaniels]

I wouldn’t hire them, because that would be my prerogative an I don’t agree with that type of lifestyle…and I wouldn’t want to cause scandal to anyone who would be a patron of my business

This view is nonsense. If you were hiring people for a job, and the person that was most qualified by far was a homosexual, would you not hire them because you would be putting a stamp of approval on homosexuality?

 

[michaeldaniels]

You apparently have NEVER been in a military environment and are naive to think it won’t change things…well, I can speak from experience and I am telling you it is a complete blunder…only bad things will come from this.

I wonder how much it will change? Gays are already in the military, just not openly. I don’t think it will change much of anything. But what worries me is that it is the first down a perilous road, towards the full integration and acceptance into society of homosexual practices.

 

[michaeldaniels]

I despise the sin, but love the sinner…however, that doesn’t mean that I have to put up with or condone their behavior or be forced to be exposed to it…they are a minority…and the majority of Americans are against that type of lifestyle, but still it is forced down our throats more and more each day…no one cares what we want…as long as they get to fulfill their selfish and hedonistic lifestyles…that is all that matters. I am sorry, but I do not accept their lifestyle and as such their open expression of it has no place in society…at least around me. It makes me sick and causes scandal to anyone that has to be exposed to it…especially our kids. Heck, they teach in school that it is ok to be gay…they teach that to the kids and even hand out “fisting kits” to the children…we are morally bankrupt as a country and a society and I don’t care if I am called a bigot…but their lifestyle is evil and should not be promoted or incorporated into our culture. We need to take back our country and promote wholesome, family values.

I think there should be a full integration and acceptance of homosexual practices in society. Why persecute these people because they are sexually attracted to people of the same gender? Should we force them to be straight? Should we force them to stay in the closet? This is like the inquisition but with gays instead of muslims and jews.

 

[Fayle]

So do you also support disallowing fornicators in the military? It would only be consistent.

 

[michaeldaniels]

I can’t expect someone that has never been in that environment to understand the damage it will do to the ranks if they allow openly homosexual people in it…

and…while I don’t agree that fornication is right or acceptable, I have never seen it tear a unit a part or cause strife amongst the ranks…or cause concern to a fellow brother in arms…however, I have seen the other situation cause great problems.

So do you also support disallowing fornicators in the military? It would only be consistent.

 

[Newbie2]

I think there should be a full integration and acceptance of ***homosexual practices ***in society. Why persecute these people because they are sexually attracted to people of the same gender? Should we force them to be straight? Should we force them to stay in the closet? This is like the inquisition but with gays instead of muslims and jews.

People of faith would disagree, especially Catholics.

Disallowing homosexuals from serving in the military isn’t exactly “persecuting” them as we do not have mandatory military service. I think those who have served in the military and are now in command positions are the best ones to be able to judge how such policies or lack thereof are likely to affect morale, safety, etc.

So let’s say there is a distinct probability that there are those soldiers who don’t like the idea of having homosexuals in their unit. Sound reasonable that this might happen? So what happens in a firefight, the gay person just might happen to catch some friendly fire.
Should such a think happen, have we really done them a favor by allowing them into the military? Yep, it would be a terrible, unfair thing to have happen. But it would happen, methinks.

 

[GeorgeSword]

You apparently have NEVER been in a military environment and are naive to think it won’t change things…well, I can speak from experience and I am telling you it is a complete blunder…only bad things will come from this.

It will change in that it becomes more open, yes, of course. That’s the point of it. But there are gays in the military already, and there will continue to be regardless of if we get rid of this policy or not.

 

[michaeldaniels]

Right now, they can not be open about it…and if they are, they are subject to discharge, which grants a level of comfort to heterosexual men and women in the ranks…that comfort level will disappear and chaos will ensue if they start letting openly gay people in…I promise you. I have been there…I know these guys/gals. It will be bad…that is all I am going to say. Just because they are there doesn’t mean we just lift all the restrictions and freely accept them and destroy the entire thing…kind of like saying, hey, there are already illegal aliens here…lets give them all citizenship and while we are at it, just let anyone come here who desires without any restrictions or regulations…and you know what, if we do that, it will destroy our country as well.

Some people are fit to serve and some are not…just like some are fit to be Americans and some are not…either way, total inclusion is a bad idea

It will change in that it becomes more open, yes, of course. That’s the point of it. But there are gays in the military already, and there will continue to be regardless of if we get rid of this policy or not.

 

[Benedictus]

I can’t expect someone that has never been in that environment to understand the damage it will do to the ranks if they allow openly homosexual people in it…

I am in the military, and I don’t think it will do any of the harm that people claim. Many other countries allow gays in their militaries and haven’t had any significant problems (ex., most NATO countries, Australia, Israel).

 

[baylee]

From the Catechism:

*The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. **They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. *These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

I’m betting that the Church would want this policy repealed.

 

[Timbothefiveth]

The question is whether or not this is unjust discrimination.

As for the job analogy, I think I’d be okay in not hiring gay people unless they were celibate gay people, sort of like not hiring fornicators.

 

[baylee]

The question is whether or not this is unjust discrimination.

As for the job analogy, I think I’d be okay in not hiring gay people unless they were celibate gay people, sort of like not hiring fornicators.

Really? Isn’t sexual orientation a protected class when it comes to hiring practices?

 

[camerong]

Really? Isn’t sexual orientation a protected class when it comes to hiring practices?

No, sexual orientation is not a protected class, at least under federal law. There are some states that have particular laws to make it protected, however those would not apply here.

As a former service member, I think we should repeal it. I see homosexual acts as sinful. But I do not see homosexuality as sinful, or something that should harm someone. Under the current policy, a gay person who is bent on resisting his impulses would still be kicked out. As Catholics, we should recognize that homosexuality is often a deep-seated tendency that is not possible for the person to change. We should not punish people for this. (Further, an obvious point that is often overlooked, most homosexuals who could not stay chaste would find the military culture extremely unforgiving, and I very much doubt we would have a mass influx of flaming homosexuals onto our battle lines.)

In place of the current policy, we should have one where anyone caught having any kind of homosexual relations on base or in country would be discharged. This would allow homosexuals who fight their urges–but are honest about their afflictions–to serve their country.

To the above posters who want to punish or exclude homosexuals as a way of standing against homosexuality, I encourage you to review the Church’s stance on this topic. Homosexuals are sinners like all of us, with the same penchant to be chaste or to sin. Perhaps such a view point is well-founded with respect to practicing homosexuals, but I encourage you to use more precise language. The Church has lost many members because it is seen as opposing homosexuals, rather than opposing homosexual sex. Do not contribute to this problem.

 

[doanli]

This view is nonsense. If you were hiring people for a job, and the person that was most qualified by far was a homosexual, would you not hire them because you would be putting a stamp of approval on homosexuality?

The practice of it is forbidden in the Bible and it is a mortal sin according to the Church, so how is this nonsense on a Catholic forum? I am just the messenger as I tell others.

Civilian jobs and what the military has to do are two different things. I do not have to be a ‘band of brothers’ with my co-workers—you have to have each others’ back.

I think most gay people know all too well most churches’ stand on the practice of homosexuality. What they decide to do in their PRIVATE lives is between them and God. But I do not want it flaunted in my face, nor my child’s and berated and bullied into saying it is acceptable, normal, and okay…because it is NOT!

And fwiw, I find open (mouthed) displays of affection even between heterosexuals to be offensive as well.

 

[doanli]

My job in this life, as well as the rest of yours, and I paraphrase the Baltimore Catechism, is to love, serve, and OBEY God–and I will not deny Him because a minority’s feelings might get hurt.