I believe the Church says that all are saved only through Christ whether they know it or not. However, at the same time, as you note, ‘the calling of G-d is irrevocable." This may mean that the Jews’ covenant with G-d maintains their special favor in the eyes of G-d and thus Christ looks upon them favorably in terms of salvation even though they lack the sacraments and do not believe in the divinity of Jesus.I feel like I read a few catholic documents recently, most important one called “the calling of God is irrevocable” (though it’s labeled non-magisterial) which says that the Jews are saved through the old covenant. I forget if this forum has a must-post-thing-being-talked-about policy; if so my mistake. But if so, this seems untrue to me.
Does Judaism believe in heaven and hell as I have received differing answers on this one Id like to get your take. To dah.I believe the Church says that all are saved only through Christ whether they know it or not. However, at the same time, as you note, ‘the calling of G-d is irrevocable." This may mean that the Jews’ covenant with G-d maintains their special favor in the eyes of G-d and thus Christ looks upon them favorably in terms of salvation even though they lack the sacraments and do not believe in the divinity of Jesus.
From the Jewish perspective, the covenant is not meant for salvation in the Christian sense. Further, Judaism does not believe there is anything to be saved from since there is no original sin in the first place. The Torah (Law), however, is designed to save mankind from its baser instincts and guide humanity in following the path of righteousness toward G-d and His creation throughout earthly life.
I would only disagree with the bolded statement. For one who has heard the Gospel of the New Covenant in Jesus’ body and blood, there is a necessity of belief. I agree that the Jewish nation of people are given the relationship with God by birth.I believe the Church says that all are saved only through Christ whether they know it or not. However, at the same time, as you note, ‘the calling of G-d is irrevocable." This may mean that the Jews’ covenant with G-d maintains their special favor in the eyes of G-d and thus Christ looks upon them favorably in terms of salvation even though they lack the sacraments and do not believe in the divinity of Jesus.
I think there is a sense in which you are correct… yet Jesus said this:From the Jewish perspective, the covenant is not meant for salvation in the Christian sense. Further, Judaism does not believe there is anything to be saved from since there is no original sin in the first place. The Torah (Law), however, is designed to save mankind from its baser instincts and guide humanity in following the path of righteousness toward G-d and His creation throughout earthly life.
Of course Judaism has a somewhat different scenario concerning the end of times. But it seems it has something in common with Christianity, and that is the appearance of the Messiah and no forced conversions but conversion only on the basis of apparent truth.There will be a widespread conversion of the Jews. As the Catechism of the Catholic Church puts it: “The glorious Messiah’s coming is suspended at every moment of history until his recognition by ‘all Israel,’ for ‘a hardening has come upon part of Israel’ in their ‘unbelief’ toward Jesus” (Rom 11:20-26; Cf. Mt 23:39). [9] This has been the understanding ever since the Church Fathers, for instance, St. Augustine: “In connection with the last judgment, therefore, we who believe can be sure of the following truths … the Jews will believe”. [10] One of the scriptural sources for this belief is Hosea 3:5: “Afterward the children of Israel shall return and seek the LORD their God, and David their king; and they shall come in fear to the LORD and to his goodness in the latter days.” Blessed Pope Pius IX explicitly cited this passage as referring to the conversion of the Jews in the end times. [11]
St. Paul’s Letter to the Romans contains an extensive discussion of the conversion of the Jews in the end times that will be explored at length in the next chapter (Romans 11:25-26):
“Lest you be wise in your own conceits, I want you to understand this mystery, brethren: a hardening has come upon part of Israel, until the full number of the Gentiles come in, and so all Israel will be saved.”
Jesus Himself prophesied the conversion of the Jews prior to the Second Coming when He said (Matthew 23:37-39):
“O Jerusalem, Jerusalem… Behold, your house is forsaken and desolate. For I tell you, you will not see me again, until you say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.’”
Here Jesus is saying that he will not be seen again (i.e., the Second Coming will not occur) until “you” (the Jews) say, “Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord” (i.e., acknowledge Jesus as the Messiah).
Zechariah, too, foretold the conversion of the Jews when he said that they would weep bitterly over one “they have pierced” (Zechariah 12:10):
“And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of compassion and supplication, so that, when they look on him whom they have pierced, they shall mourn for him, as one mourns for an only child, and weep bitterly over him, as one weeps over a first-born.”
This is the site I posted the above excerpt…
ignatiusinsight.com/features2006/rschoeman_seccoming_jan06.asp
I believe this is a correct summary of the Church’s teaching.I believe the Church says that all are saved only through Christ whether they know it or not. However, at the same time, as you note, ‘the calling of G-d is irrevocable." This may mean that the Jews’ covenant with G-d maintains their special favor in the eyes of G-d and thus Christ looks upon them favorably in terms of salvation even though they lack the sacraments and do not believe in the divinity of Jesus.
I disagree that the Church Teaches that someone can hear the Gospel message of Jesus, and deny the divinity of Him, yet still be saved.I believe this is a correct summary of the Church’s teaching.
Judaism is a very -this world- oriented religion, in the sense that worrying about the afterlife isn’t the primary concern, the Law of Moses and your actions in this life is. There is however a resolute belief that Death isn’t the end of Existence.Does Judaism believe in heaven and hell as I have received differing answers on this one Id like to get your take. To dah.
If you ask me I believe in heaven, I find that any righteous man can get into heaven.
What is the basis of your disagreement? My belief is based on Lumen Gentium, the Catechism, and the various statements of the Popes.I disagree that the Church Teaches that someone can hear the Gospel message of Jesus, and deny the divinity of Him, yet still be saved.
Please show those specific Teachings. I gave one Scripture example of Christ’s own words in post #4What is the basis of your disagreement? My belief is based on Lumen Gentium, the Catechism, and the various statements of the Popes.
Thank you! Someone else gets itI disagree that the Church Teaches that someone can hear the Gospel message of Jesus, and deny the divinity of Him, yet still be saved.
The disagreement is based on the catholic religion.What is the basis of your disagreement? My belief is based on Lumen Gentium, the Catechism, and the various statements of the Popes.
John is pretty specific about the danger.[SIGN][/SIGN]
Thank you! Someone else gets it
There are many Catholics getting confused over this issue.No way, there is no way a Jew is closer to God than a Protestant, and in any case Christ, when He said that, was speaking to Christians. Christ in the gospels says that Jews need to recognize him.
Am I the only one who thinks this is modernism?
I listed the specific teachings. If you want more specificity, look at Lumen Gentium 16 and CC 539. As for the papal statements, you can google that yourself.Please show those specific Teachings. I gave one Scripture example of Christ’s own words in post #4
Any reference to salvation by non-Christians is always in the context that their is insufficient knowledge of the Gospel. But to know the Gospel, and deny Christ as one and the same God with the Father (of Abraham) is a mortal sin.
Sorry, but that is not what the Church teaches. Can you point to Church teaching that says that?The disagreement is based on the catholic religion.
1.) all have mortal sin
2.) accepting Christ and baptism gets rid of mortal sin
3.) Jews have mortal sin
4.) all the first Catholics were Jews
5.) it makes no sense and denies the great commission to say Jews can be saved without Christ. Technically baptism of desire exists, but here we have Catholics denying that we need to preach to Jews.
I certainly didn’t say Jews cannot be saved…I listed the specific teachings. If you want more specificity, look at Lumen Gentium 16 and CC 539. As for the papal statements, you can google that yourself.
But what is your basis for saying Jews cannot be saved?