Don't know how to live

[CanMan86]

I am hoping someone can offer me some help…

I have struggled with depression for nearly 10 years and have come to a point in my life where I feel enough is enough and that I am going change and overcome this thing. I have acquired this inner zeal to live a happy, positive, exciting, fulfilling life. I personally feel that my depression can be overcome through lifestyle changes. I have had tonnes of recourse to prayer and I can’t say prayer has done much for my depression. I do however feel that ACTION will do me wonders.

My depression has caused me to be anti-social, withdrawn, self-focused and lazy. I don’t go out much anymore. I stopped doing the things I enjoyed before I had depression like playing guitar and participating in sports. When I became depressed I stopped exercising too. I also tend to indulge in junk food because of my depression.

So I decided ENOUGH IS ENOUGH and that I need to change! I truly believe if I change my behaviour I will feel much better. If I go out and do the things that I love and stop locking myself up in my house and stop avoiding interaction with people I know I will feel much better (because the times that I do socialize I feel much happier).

Here is the problem, I have become scrupulous. When I read the lives of the saints I see a spirituality that is focused on REJECTING the world and focusing entirely on God for one’s fulfillment. The saints seem pretty adamant that one should not seek happiness from the world but only seek happiness from God.

The problem is is that I am depressed in large part BECAUSE I have rejected the world. In fact going out into the world is what I need to do in order to be happy. If I go out and play sports, socialize with friends, travel the world, experience new cultures, meet new people, learn new languages, enjoy music, play my guitar, enjoy movies, join social clubs, date, etc. I know I would be SO much happier and balanced as a person. Yet I can’t help but feel I am EMBRACING the world rather than REJECTING the world.

All these things that I would like to embrace are essentially secular. Music is something I’ve always had a passion for and I write a lot of my own material and decided that embracing my life long passion would be a good idea because I totally stopped playing music when I became depressed. But the music I enjoy is often “heavy” or considered “hard rock” and it makes me happy composing music like this (although not exclusively like this) but then I become scrupulous and begin thinking “oh this is wrong, heavy music isn’t spiritual, it’s satanic, etc” simply because it sounds heavy or aggressive but I know embracing my life long love for music would help with my depression.

I feel like going out into the world EMBRACING LIFE would help me so much but how is, for example, learning a new language, socializing, traveling, dancing, playing sports, etc pleasing to God when it has nothing to do with Him… I feel so confused. I feel guilty finding happiness in these things because they are entirely secular and have nothing to do with God. Yet they would make me happy…

Like I said earlier, EMBRACING the world and actually interacting with the things of this world is what I need to do but the saints never say “play sports to find God” or “play guitar to find God” or “enjoy dancing to music to find God.” It seems like they say the exact opposite.

So I have these scrupulous thoughts that are like “it’s wrong to find happiness in these things because they aren’t God, they are things of this world.” My head is all over the place.

Thanks for reading this post. I have tried to find a spiritual director but every attempt has failed so I turn to you guys. Thanks again.

 

[CanMan86]

I want to add to my post that I seem to have this guilt around seeking happiness. I feel like Christianity teaches that suffering is the way to heaven and those that go through the struggles of life deserve heaven more than those who are happy all the time… “blessed are those who mourn” “if you love your life you will lose it but if you lose your life you will save it” …it seems the strict and narrow way is the way to heaven… this view doesnt help me so much…

And quotes like these… ‘The Apostle commands us to rejoice, but in the Lord, not in the world. For, you see, as Scripture says, whoever wishes to be a friend of this world will be counted as God’s enemy. Just as a man cannot serve two masters, so too no-one can rejoice both in the world and in the Lord.’ -St. Augustine

There are many statements by saint that essentially equate to… living the tough life = heaven … living the good life = hell… I can’t help but feel guilty for wanting to embrace the good life and be happy.

 

[Oren]

I have depression too and I have struggled with some amount of scrupulosity at times. I understand your fears. However, you don’t need to be worried. The only thing you should make sure of in your life right now is that God is the focus. That doesn’t mean that you can’t listen to music or watch TV or go out with friends. Not at all. There’s nothing wrong with doing any of that stuff. It’s only if you let those things take over your life and you never give any time to God that it would be a problem. Just start out doing a half hour of mental prayer every day. Go to Mass every week or more if you want. Stay away from sin and go to confession. Other than that don’t worry right now.

There’s nothing wrong with wanting to be happy, hanging out with friends…none of that is wrong. It’s only when that stuff draws you away from God that it is a problem. Like, if you have friends that lead you into doing sinful things or if your music takes up so much of your time that you never pray or you miss Mass. Then you should reassess the situation.

 

[Remember_Me]

I see nothing wrong with wanting to seek happiness. Joy is one of the fruits of the Spirit–Galatians 5:22.

Jesus said, “I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.”

“Rejoice in the Lord alway: and again I say, Rejoice.” Philippians 4:4

I recommend you read the entire chapter of Philippians 4 or/and the entire book. Go out and interact with the world and have fun. Don’t get too wild.

“Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.” Matt 5:16

Praise God for His merciful kindness towards you. Psalm 117, Psalm 146, Psalm 147

“Let every thing that hath breath praise the Lord. Praise ye the Lord.” Psalm 150:6

 

[Remember_Me]

Also, I don’t think by seeking those things you are embracing the world. You can still have fun in this life on earth.

 

[Deus_tecum]

Firstly I congratulate you on discovering the key to ending your depression. You have realized that endless self absorption and circular reasoning keeps you trapped. Some have described depression as anger turned inwards, and even self hatred. So if you are having thoughts that make you feel guilty about living and loving life, such thoughts tell you to stay mired in the depression. It is highly unlikely that any such negative thoughts come from the Lord. So, break out of the depression…snap out as they say (not to say), but you really can.

You are on the right track of wanting to get out and about with people, and it is reasonable that you want to be in God’s will at the same time. Go visit people and focus on them. It’s best if they need a little extra focus. You could visit old relatives that need help around the house. You could take nephews, nieces, cousins etc to the park. The point is to focus on others, ask them questions about their needs, and help them in some way. Always be helping to improve someone else’s life in some way, and replace those depressive thoughts with plans to help others. You do not need some great life plan in order to start. You can figure that out once you are healed of the depression.

 

[NeedsMercy]

Firstly I congratulate you on discovering the key to ending your depression. You have realized that endless self absorption and circular reasoning keeps you trapped. Some have described depression as anger turned inwards, and even self hatred. So if you are having thoughts that make you feel guilty about living and loving life, such thoughts tell you to stay mired in the depression. It is highly unlikely that any such negative thoughts come from the Lord. So, break out of the depression…snap out as they say (not to say), but you really can.

I am amazed that CanMan86 can turn his life around so quickly. Whatever floats your boat, I say. BUT…most people with depression cannot just make up their minds one day to—poof!—not be depressed. I dearly, dearly wish this was the case but it’s not.

Deus tecum, you probably mean well, I don’t doubt. But depressives cannot make a conscious decision to stop “endless self absorption and circular reasoning”. It doesn’t work that way. It’s a biochemical, physiological reality that it doesn’t work that way. Something is medically wrong that must be corrected medically. No one is saying that prayers don’t help. But your statement that “It is highly unlikely that any such negative thoughts come from the Lord” kinda implies that depressives are somehow operating at the devil’s whim. If a person has negative thoughts it is because his/her brain is dysfunctional. That’s it. Nothing of the diabolical.

Lastly, again, you probably didn’t mean to, but that last sentence is super-offensive. Depressed people have heard the “Pick yourself by your bootstraps” “Snap out of it” and “I don’t believe in therapy/medication. I just exercise/take a vitamin/sing/dance/etc. when I’m depressed” until they want to puke. They need medication and talk therapy and compassion from their friends. That’s it. That’s my :twocents:

 

[Deus_tecum]

NeedsMercy: When Saint Paul tells us in Scripture to “take every thought captive”, I do not recall there being any codicils to give one an excuse to not do so based on health issues of any kind. You seem to suggest that all depression is biochemically based and that therefore the depressed person is at the mercy of all the negative thoughts. Did you know that by changing thought patterns, one can change their brain chemistry?

 

[Lady_Love]

You can re-enter the world knowing that God is the source of all these things that you delight in and can turn them into an opportunity to praise Him. We are called to sanctify the world with our presence and the proper use of God’s gifts.

I think it is important to remember that God “loves all that He created and despises nothing that He has made.” All of these things that you speak of are opportunities for you to praise God and be full of gratitude. I think in your fear, you have thought that you were making idols of these things. Detachment doesn’t mean NEVER enjoying life. Detachment means being able to let them go should God take them away, without being disturbed.

One of my favorite all time scriptures is from Titus: “To the pure, all things are pure.”

Go out, serve others, have fun doing it, and praise God.

 

[ajecphotos]

Most important thing is to always put god first in your life. Even if that means thanking him for the day ahead. Then, you can go ahead and do what you need to do to make you happy and fulfilled but not in a sinful way.

Just remember to keep god alive in your day and activities. Nothing wrong in doing what you say you need to do. Offer up any sufferings, joys etc to God.

God bless

 

[ready]

Whenever you play sports enjoy them as healthy recreation while keeping yourself in union with Our Lord. Whenever you play music enjoy it as recreation, but keep yourself away from the heavy metal stuff – make music that will glorify God and that will make you into a saint. Live in the world but be not of the world. There is nothing wrong with enjoying recreation, so long as your recreation is not sinful recreation. If your recreation is sinful, then that would mean that you are a lover of the world and not a lover of God. God bless you.

 

[NeedsMercy]

NeedsMercy: When Saint Paul tells us in Scripture to “take every thought captive”, I do not recall there being any codicils to give one an excuse to not do so based on health issues of any kind.

What does this quote have to do with depression? St. Paul was speaking about preaching the Gospel. From “A Catholic Reading of 2 Corinthians”:

Arguments and prideful obstacles to the truth are destroyed by apostolic teaching and authority. Disobedience to this authority is punished.

And from “Opus Sanctorum Angelorum”:

When the truths of the faith are being brought to someone, in addition to speaking the truth, there is usually need to remove obstacles. Such barriers can require the power of God to overcome as St. Paul wrote to the Corinthians: “Though we live in the world we are not carrying on a worldly war, for the weapons of our warfare are not worldly but have divine power to destroy strongholds. We destroy arguments and every proud obstacle to the knowledge of God and take every thought captive to obey Christ” (2 Cor 10:3-6). The Book of Revelation reveals that the angels are the key warriors in the battle against the kingdom of darkness. They constitute the armies of heaven who follow the Word of God into battle (cf. Rev 19:14).

How many depressives do you know **personally **that feel like evangelizing?

You seem to suggest that all depression is biochemically based and that therefore the depressed person is at the mercy of all the negative thoughts. Did you know that by changing thought patterns, one can change their brain chemistry?

The causes of depression are many and extremely complex. Yes, I agree, that stressful events, family environment, etc. are part of the mix; however, we are finding more areas of the brain and more brain chemicals which are integral parts of causation. Genetics, of course, is also a factor, but once again, more and more genes are being implicated with causation. There is no easy way for me to describe these things, so I give you this source:

health.harvard.edu/newsweek/what-causes-depression.htm

To deny physical factors is to deny reality. Again, I agree that one should not throw in the towel mentally or spiritually after a diagnosis of depression but one must first do everything physically possible to fight the disease. Happy thoughts alone aren’t going to cut it.

 

[Deus_tecum]

NeedsMercy: I did not deny there are physical aspects to depression. However medical science does not know everything about depression, and simply because they find correlations does not mean they have proven causation. Medical science does not even address spiritual aspects of human maladies.

For you to reduce what I quoted from Saint Paul and put into the context of my advice to something as simplistic as “think happy thoughts” is insulting.

 

[fred_conty]

I want to add to my post that I seem to have this guilt around seeking happiness. I feel like Christianity teaches that suffering is the way to heaven and those that go through the struggles of life deserve heaven more than those who are happy all the time… “blessed are those who mourn” “if you love your life you will lose it but if you lose your life you will save it” …it seems the strict and narrow way is the way to heaven… this view doesnt help me so much…

And quotes like these… ‘The Apostle commands us to rejoice, but in the Lord, not in the world. For, you see, as Scripture says, whoever wishes to be a friend of this world will be counted as God’s enemy. Just as a man cannot serve two masters, so too no-one can rejoice both in the world and in the Lord.’ -St. Augustine

There are many statements by saint that essentially equate to… living the tough life = heaven … living the good life = hell… I can’t help but feel guilty for wanting to embrace the good life and be happy.

Sports do help to pick up the spirits. They drain the nervous excess energy and are uplifting because they are usually fun. They also tone up the body. I know for myself, sometimes I feel dragy and don’t want to exorcise, but then when I do it, afterward I feel physically much better and less tired. It also helps to tone up the body and take a little weight off as well.

So I would encourage you to do that right away, and to faithfully have a routine of exorcise as well as some fun sports in your plan.

Listening to some really good music can also have a nice effect on lifting my mood and making me feel better. There is something about quality music that heals the spirit. You might also want to try singing some light songs or humming them. This too is a quick “pick me upper”.

Also try to see the humorous side to anything. Laughter is a great gift from God to help us enjoy life and not take it so seriously. Laughing at yourself is a great way to keep it level.

Finally, but not least, I noticed you said, “The Apostle commands us to rejoice, but in the Lord, not in the world,…”. Practise the indwelling of Christ within you. You know you are really never alone in sanctifying grace, for Jesus is there only for one reason, because he truly wants to be with you and enjoys your company. So try to remember him as much as you can and to talk to him instead of to yourself. He appreciates your conversation more than you could ever imagine.
Keep him in your thoughts and live in his presence.

May God bless and keep you. May God’s face shine on you. May God be kind to you and give you peace.

 

[NeedsMercy]

NeedsMercy: I did not deny there are physical aspects to depression. However medical science does not know everything about depression, and simply because they find correlations does not mean they have proven causation. Medical science does not even address spiritual aspects of human maladies.

For you to reduce what I quoted from Saint Paul and put into the context of my advice to something as simplistic as “think happy thoughts” is insulting.

We’re even then, because I have bipolar disorder and, like I said before, found your comments to be insulting. I’m not going to argue science with you. I’m out.

 

[Deus_tecum]

We’re even then, because I have bipolar disorder and, like I said before, found your comments to be insulting. I’m not going to argue science with you. I’m out.

I pray thee be healed in Jesus Name in a way that astounds both you and your doctors.

 

[ready]

Whenever you play sports enjoy them as healthy recreation while keeping yourself in union with Our Lord. Whenever you play music enjoy it as recreation, but keep yourself away from the heavy metal stuff – make music that will glorify God and that will make you into a saint. Live in the world but be not of the world. There is nothing wrong with enjoying recreation, so long as your recreation is not sinful recreation. If your recreation is sinful, then that would mean that you are a lover of the world and not a lover of God. God bless you.

There is one more thing I need to add: spend some time in recreation, but not MOST your time in it. Your day should be comprised of a healthy balance of prayer, work and chores, spiritual study/reading, eating, and recreation. Daily recreation time probably shouldn’t exceed an hour or two, with rare exceptions. God bless you.