Don't Lie about Santa Clause!

[sinner]

Could you cite a reference for those of us who are Catechismically-challenged re:“white lies”. How about having Santa in the Communion procession at Midnight Mass as has happened at my parish for several years now? How do you explain that to children? And for those who believe children know better, my son once stated, to our utter horror, that he believed in Santa but didn’t think he believed in God. Talk about a catechetical moment!

 

[estesbob]

Could you cite a reference for those of us who are Catechismically-challenged re:“white lies”. How about having Santa in the Communion procession at Midnight Mass as has happened at my parish for several years now? How do you explain that to children? And for those who believe children know better, my son once stated, to our utter horror, that he believed in Santa but didn’t think he believed in God. Talk about a catechetical moment!

It coul;d be worse-there was Holloween Mass in California this fall where the Priest dressed like Satan and dracula gave out Communion.

 

[childofmary1143]

Could you cite a reference for those of us who are Catechismically-challenged re:“white lies”. How about having Santa in the Communion procession at Midnight Mass as has happened at my parish for several years now? How do you explain that to children? And for those who believe children know better, my son once stated, to our utter horror, that he believed in Santa but didn’t think he believed in God. Talk about a catechetical moment!

Yes its in the book titled “The Catechism Explained” by Benziger Brothers publishers dated 1899 on page 408 in the 3rd paragraph, ***“But to relate a fictitious narrative, or make use of a fable for the instruction of others is no untruth, for it is done without an intention to deceive. Our Lord Himself employed parables in teaching.” ***

 

[ricko]

The Amish have retreated from the world because the bible says not to be part of the world.
The JWs use the same passage to refuse to salute the flag, vote, etc. only not to the extent that the Amish have.
Some believe Catholics worship statues.
Some believe that is against scripture to even have photographs.
Some believe Catholics worship the Virgin Mary.
Some believe that Jesus is hiding behind the comet Hale Bopp.
Some believed the world was going to end in 2000.
We can certainly say that some people come up with the weirdest beliefs.
Wait! There is one more for the list.

Some believe it’s wrong for children to believe in Santa Claus!

 

[Guardian]

Your wrong when you say lying is objectively wrong whether you have good intentions or not. The Cathechism makes an allowance for “white lies” as not being sinful. Being too scrupulous can be sinful too

Boo! It is not in the Catechism. Give me a reference in the official Catechism.

 

[Guardian]

so dont tell them about the easter bunny or the toothfairy either? whats next? taking away cartoons and koolaide? I can remember my childhood as far back as 2 1/2 years old, and my parents raised me with the santa claus and all the other traditional stuff as well as my other 7 siblings and we turned out fine. lets get a grip people and let children have a childhood and be children, treat them as the children they are and lot like adults which there seems to be a burning desire with some arround here.

There isn’t anything wrong with telling kids fairytales, as long as you tell them they are FAIRYTALES!

 

[pnewton]

Why are there always so many people that are willing to tell others how to raise their children? To each their own. We are devoutly Catholic and we have presents from Santa Claus. Just as Jesus taught in parables, there are many good lessons to be derived from such stories. I will neither teach my kids that Santa is real, or not real. When they are old enough to start and question, they can work it out themselves. I consider it a type of progressive revelation.

 

[kellie]

There isn’t anything wrong with telling kids fairytales, as long as you tell them they are FAIRYTALES!

Guardian,

When you read a child the story of Cinderella, do you start with “Once upon a time there was a lovely young lady who lived with her three ugly sisters…” or do you start with “Hey child, this story I am about to read is not true, there is no such thing as magic pumpkins, it is a fairytale, so let’s begin, once upon a time there was…”

Letting children know there is a Santa is a fairytale, yes, and one day the child discovers it was a magical fairytale, that adults still like to tell, same as Cinderella, but there is no need to tell them that it is a fairytale from the time they are born.

 

[tee_eff_em]

Yes its in the book titled “The Catechism Explained” by Benziger Brothers publishers dated 1899 on page 408 in the 3rd paragraph, ***“But to relate a fictitious narrative, or make use of a fable for the instruction of others is no untruth, for it is done without an intention to deceive. Our Lord Himself employed parables in teaching.” ***

Boo! It is not in the Catechism. Give me a reference in the official Catechism.

Along the same lines as childofmary1143’s reference (emphases added):

2482 “A lie consists in speaking a falsehood with the intention of deceiving.” The Lord denounces lying as the work of the devil: “You are of your father the devil, . . . there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks according to his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies.”

2483 Lying is the most direct offense against the truth. To lie is to speak or act against the truth in order to lead into error someone who has the right to know the truth. By injuring man’s relation to truth and to his neighbor, a lie offends against the fundamental relation of man and of his word to the Lord.

I will leave it to others (preferably on other threads) to work out the moral calculus of whether there are lies which fail any or all of: (a) to deceive, (b) to lead to error, or (c) are directed at someone who has the right to know the truth, and which may be termed as “white lies”.

But to stay on topic: I will refer again to [post=1755049]my experience with my son[/post]. When he inquired about the truth regarding Santa Claus, I did not deceive him, nor do I believe I did him any injustice by telling him the story of Santa Claus when he was younger. I do know people, however, whose parents *did *deliberately deceive them in similar circumstances, and I do not blame those folks for being bitter about their experience, and I believe their parents were quite mistaken to have done so.

:twocents:
tee

 

[Guardian]

Guardian,

When you read a child the story of Cinderella, do you start with “Once upon a time there was a lovely young lady who lived with her three ugly sisters…” or do you start with “Hey child, this story I am about to read is not true, there is no such thing as magic pumpkins, it is a fairytale, so let’s begin, once upon a time there was…”

Letting children know there is a Santa is a fairytale, yes, and one day the child discovers it was a magical fairytale, that adults still like to tell, same as Cinderella, but there is no need to tell them that it is a fairytale from the time they are born.

I usually say, “Would you like me to read the fairytale of Cinderella?”

Or, if the kid is anything like me, assume everything is not true until proven or told by a trusted source otherwise. If my kid asked me if Cinderella was real or not, I would obviously answer, “no.” I would like to be a trusted source to my child.

2482 “A lie consists in speaking a falsehood with the intention of deceiving.” The Lord denounces lying as the work of the devil: “You are of your father the devil, . . . there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks according to his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies.”

2483 Lying is the most direct offense against the truth. To lie is to speak or act against the truth in order to lead into error someone who has the right to know the truth. By injuring man’s relation to truth and to his neighbor, a lie offends against the fundamental relation of man and of his word to the Lord.

OBVIOUSLY these statements in the Catechism are not condoning white lies, nor any other types of lies. Telling someone a falsehood is not sinful if you do not know it is false yourself, hence the intentions. If you tell your kid Santa Claus is real (and you know the kid will honestly believe you), then you are deceiving the kid, unless you really do think Santa Claus is real, then you are just a nutball.

Seriously, take this quiz.

If your child asks, “Does Santa Claus really exist and does he fly around the world and deliver all the good kids in the world Christmas gifts?”

IF you answer, “yes” to that question, then:

1. Are you not deceiving your child into thinking that someone that does not exist, exists?
2. Are you not leading your child into believing in something that is false, hence leading your child into error?
3. Do you not believe your child has the right to know the truth?

I would like to hear the answers.

 

[sinner]

\quote]IF you answer, “yes” to that question, then:

1. Are you not deceiving your child into thinking that someone that does not exist, exists?
2. Are you not leading your child into believing in something that is false, hence leading your child into error?
3. Do you not believe your child has the right to know the truth?

I would like to hear the answers.

Me too!!! But I can hear people now “…guess that depends on what your definition of is, is.”

 

[estesbob]

If your child asks, “Does Santa Claus really exist and does he fly around the world and deliver all the good kids in the world Christmas gifts?”

IF you answer, “yes” to that question, then:

1. Are you not deceiving your child into thinking that someone that does not exist, exists?
2. Are you not leading your child into believing in something that is false, hence leading your child into error?
3. Do you not believe your child has the right to know the truth?

I would like to hear the answers.

So if one doesnt answer these the way you think they should be answered does that mean they have commited a grevious sin? Does that mean you are a better catholic or better person than them? i really am trying to figure out where we are going with all this.

BTW-my kids are 27 AND 30 and neither of them beleiver in Santa Claus

 

[childofmary1143]

Boo! It is not in the Catechism. Give me a reference in the official Catechism.

The Catechism that I quoted is an OFFICIAL CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH. The fact that its old is totally irrelevant. Faith doesn’t change nor does sin. If God says that fables are okay to tell then nobody can say otherwise. While telling Santa Claus isn’t a requirement to say that others who tell their kids about Santa Claus are wrong (hence sinful) is heresy and perhaps the moderators should correct you for saying heresy.

 

[Guardian]

So if one doesnt answer these the way you think they should be answered does that mean they have commited a grevious sin? Does that mean you are a better catholic or better person than them? i really am trying to figure out where we are going with all this.

BTW-my kids are 27 AND 30 and neither of them beleiver in Santa Claus

I’m just simply asking for you to answer the questions. I’m just wondering if simple logic will prevail with you guys.

childofmary1143:

The Catechism that I quoted is an OFFICIAL CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH. The fact that its old is totally irrelevant. Faith doesn’t change nor does sin. If God says that fables are okay to tell then nobody can say otherwise. While telling Santa Claus isn’t a requirement to say that others who tell their kids about Santa Claus are wrong (hence sinful) is heresy and perhaps the moderators should correct you for saying heresy.

First off, you didn’t quote the official Catechism. You quoted, “The Catechism Explained,” not the official Catechism. Regardless, your point is moot because there is nothing wrong with telling fables, fairytales, parables, etc. as long as there is no deception involved, which is why I asked those three questions above. Can you answer them?

 

[estesbob]

I’m just simply asking for you to answer the questions. I’m just wondering if simple logic will prevail with you guys.

?

Im just wondering why any of this matters. Are there spiritual consequences for parents who tell their children there is a Santa Claus?

 

[estesbob]

\quote]IF you answer, “yes” to that question, then:

1. Are you not deceiving your child into thinking that someone that does not exist, exists?

NO
2. Are you not leading your child into believing in something that is false, hence leading your child into error?

NO

1. Do you not believe your child has the right to know the truth?

YES

I would like to hear the answers.

Me too!!! But I can hear people now “…guess that depends on what your definition of is, is.”

 

[Eireann]

Have you ever watched children play pretend games, I’m so and so, your this or that, at times they love the fantasy world.

Our priest mentioned to the children at Mass that they need to be in bed early because Santa was coming, it’s all a bit tooth fairy to me, and making a mountain out of a mole hill.

Let children be children, they grow up far too quick, my grandchildren love to hear those stories, “the big bad wolf etc” 3 little pigs.

When I watched movies from the USA, I was Billy the kid, Roy Rogers, sometimes I defected to the Indians.

Anyone that’s gonna tell me I wasn’t Roy Rogers can meet me at the creek down by sleepy hollow, and it’ll be fastest to the draw.

Anyway… **The name “Santa Claus” is an American accented version of the Dutch “Sinterklaas.” St. Nicholas and Santa Claus are the same person, but many people don’t realize that. They are one in the same, but they look different because they are at different points in his posthumous evolution. ** so says this source, but it’s only a theory.

 

[childofmary1143]

I’m just simply asking for you to answer the questions. I’m just wondering if simple logic will prevail with you guys.

First off, you didn’t quote the official Catechism. You quoted, “The Catechism Explained,” not the official Catechism. Regardless, your point is moot because there is nothing wrong with telling fables, fairytales, parables, etc. as long as there is no deception involved, which is why I asked those three questions above. Can you answer them?

The book “The Catechism Explained” is a book that explains The Catholic Catechism. Hence its name!!! It doesn’t need to have the word “official” in the title to say its for Catholics or for the latest doctrines of our faith.

My point isn’t moot as I didn’t make any point whatsoever. I only repeated what is the teachings of the faith. I am not God. I don’t tell people what teachings to believe or not to believe. That is for God. Its also God’s right to say that telling fables or fairytales without having to say that they are without you contradicting what God has said

 

[Missa_Solemnis]

It seems to me that the evilness of lying (not telling the truth) about something goes out the window when people tell little kids about Santa Clause and how he is real and lives in the North Pole, etc etc. I don’t see why we should feed our kids lies because people think it’s one of the “joys” of Christmas for little kids. I say tell them the truth that Santa is just a myth, or better yet, tell them about the real St. Nick who lived back in the 4th century!

Am I being anal?

God forbid theres a little kid on these forums…

 

[Katie1723]

Im just wondering why any of this matters. Are there spiritual consequences for parents who tell their children there is a Santa Claus?

Personally I think Guardian is mad because Santa Claus skipped his house.

Kathy