Don't neglect your natural needs

[Delta2]

I took this wise teaching from this forum :

www.turntoislam.com

the complete quote :

As muslim : don’t neglect your natural needs !!!

Abu Juhaifah (May Allah be pleased with him) reported: The Prophet (PBUH) made a bond of brotherhood between Salman and Abud-Darda’. Salman paid a visit to Abud-Darda’ and found Umm Darda’ (his wife) dressed in shabby clothes and asked her why she was in that state. She replied: "Your brother Abud-Darda’ is not interested in (the luxuries of) this world. In the meantime Abud-Darda’ came in and prepared a meal for Salman. Salman requested Abud-Darda’ to eat (with him) but Abud-Darda’ said: "I am fasting.’’ Salman said: "I am not going to eat unless you eat.’’ So, Abud-Darda’ ate (with Salman). When it was night and (a part of the night passed), Abud-Darda’ got up (to offer the night prayer) but Salman asked him to sleep and Abud-Darda’ slept. After some time Abud-Darda’ again got up but Salman asked him to sleep. When it was the last hours of the night, Salman asked him to get up and both of them offered (Tahajjud) prayer. Then Salman told Abud-Darda’: "You owe a duty to your Rubb, you owe a duty to your body; you owe a duty to your family; so you should give to every one his due. Abud-Darda’ came to the Prophet (PBUH) and reported the whole story.
Prophet (PBUH) said, “Salman is right”.

[Al-Bukhari].

"Commentary: This Hadith highlights the following points:

1. Although the performance of voluntary prayers (Nawafil) is highly meritorious, it should not be done at the cost of obligations for, in this case, they loose their merits and are disliked by Allah.
2. The best time for Tahajjud (optional prayers at night) is the last third part of the night. The reason being that in the first two portions of the night, one should take rest and perform his conjugal duties.
3. Voluntary fasting can be broken (for valid reasons) without any expiation.
4. Muslims must provide right guidance to each other. “”

Then I keep reading in the same forum, and I found this :

Hello.

Its used to said that Muslim women "can wear any fashion and any color as long their outfits are not tempting, transparent, tight, and as long as they cover their bodies except the hands and the face. " (I borrowed the sentence from an article in another threat).

I wonder especially about the part about covering all except the face and the hands. My question is, where in Koran or in other holly book this is written. I saw some articles of Koran where its said about clothes of women, but they were all only general. That woman should not wear clothes which could make desire of other men and so on.

Can you please tell me, how Muslims find out that women has to be clothed this way?

Is this somehow related ?

If I answer to them, they will ban me, lol

Well, you may ask :

Why the need of this thread ?

And I will reply with Jesus words :

“Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.”
Matthew, 7-17

Are you a muslim and you are in this forum ? good

Compare then the fruits

 

[Sister_Amy]

Compare the fruits? I guess if I can’t say something nice, I shouldn’t say anything at all.

I don’t see how the two posts you quoted are related at all. The first is a very authentic hadith which is taught in many different forms. There are even other narrations which embody the same teaching. Salman, by the way, was a Persian man who converted to Christianity and was the slave of a Jew, until he discovered the Prophet Muhammad and embraced Islam. Then Muhammad and His Companions raised the money and planted 300 date-palm trees in order to free Salman.

The teaching is about prevening extremism in worship. A person’s body has rights on him, so he shouldn’t try to fast every day, even if he can and wants to. His wife also has rights on him.

The second post is a question about covering, regarding which the Qur’an is quite clear when it tells the Muslim women to lengthen their headcovers to their breasts.

 

[Delta2]

Compare the fruits? I guess if I can’t say something nice, I shouldn’t say anything at all.

You should compare doctrines results, i.e., if it produces good or bad fruits. This applies to any religion

I don’t see how the two posts you quoted are related at all

.

The temptation of flesh, and the cover of the “body” - the main cause

I think the west countries has a big problem of over weight, sometimes it takes a morbidity state

Does that mean that we must cover all the food ?

The first is a very authentic hadith which is taught in many different forms.

Arabic language has many forms and words that means the opposite, very tricky indeed

The teaching is about prevening extremism in worship. A person’s body has rights on him, so he shouldn’t try to fast every day, even if he can and wants to.

I don’t think that God demands starving to death, I don’t even think that He demands to do it every day, in Christianity there is no such thing, i.e., nothing is imposed by law or rituals

His wife also has rights on him

lol, sorry…

The second post is a question about covering, regarding which the Qur’an is quite clear when it tells the Muslim women to lengthen their headcovers to their breasts.

Also men, I asked that in that forum

The problem with that is, being you a woman and I’m a man, I can find your face pretty attractive and you are the cause of my distraction of my religion duties

Therefore, being you a pretty face, you must cover that face

period

As the west must cover the food because of over weight problems

 

[cyberjacques]

I don’t see how the two posts you quoted are related at all.

I must agree. The only thing I can think of is you’re comparing the part about the man’s wife wearing shabby clothes to the second quote, though it’s a weak comparison. The quality of the clothes has little to do with their coverage.

The teaching is about prevening extremism in worship. A person’s body has rights on him, so he shouldn’t try to fast every day, even if he can and wants to. His wife also has rights on him.

This is also very true. Fasting at the expense of your health or work is not pleasing to God, and neither does neglecting your family. Not fasting or failing to pray at exactly the right time does not offend God, but neglecting your duties does. The only part I would disagree with is that there is one time of night that is better than others for praying. There’s nothing wrong with structured prayer, but spontaneous prayer is the most common kind, and there are no rules or time restrictions placed on it.

 

[Sister_Amy]

You should compare doctrines results, i.e., if it produces good or bad fruits. This applies to any religion

Judge the religion by its followers?

The temptation of flesh, and the cover of the “body” - the main cause.

Neither post had any relevance to what you call ‘temptation of the flesh.’ A woman covers her body to protect herself–not so that men won’t be tempted. Men are instructed to lower their gaze. But this was about the relationship between a man and his wife. A woman is free to uncover in front of her husband.

I think the west countries has a big problem of over weight, sometimes it takes a morbidity state

Does that mean that we must cover all the food ?

I’m afraid you don’t understand the Islamic injunction of covering. The problem with obesity would mostly be solved by the people affected making healthier food choices and being more active.

In Islam, both men and women are supposed to lower their gaze and avoid anything which would lead them to illegal intimacy (adultery or fornication.) The Qur’an doesn’t tell women to cover so that men won’t be tempted–it tells them to cover for their own purity.

Arabic language has many forms and words that means the opposite, very tricky indeed

Whatever. The hadith which was posted embodies a very common and wellknown teaching in Islam. I’d bet even children are familiar with it.

I don’t think that God demands starving to death, I don’t even think that He demands to do it every day, in Christianity there is no such thing, i.e., nothing is imposed by law or rituals

I don’t think you understood the hadith at all. First of all, fasting in Islam means abstaining from all food, all drinks, and all sexual relations from dawn until sunrise. It doesn’t kill you. Muslims practice a mandatory 30 day fast of this kind every year.

The hadith isn’t talking about that. It isn’t talking about any obligations in Islam. It’s not talking about prayer or fasting that has been mandated. It’s only talking about EXTRA prayer and fasting. And in fact, it isn’t even ALLOWED to fast to that extreme–fasting every day, and it’s not even ALLOWED to spend all that time in prayer, because if a person does that he is neglecting the rights of his body, and of his wife and his family, etc. Such extremism becomes harmful for him, and makes the religion too difficult for him, so he shouldn’t do it.

lol, sorry…

It’s not funny. I for one wouldn’t want my husband to fast every single day and not be available to me! And he’s also responsible to provide his wife with clothes and food. It’s not funny.

Also men, I asked that in that forum

Men don’t have to wear headcovers, and the word mentioned was “khimar” which is something only women wear (not men.)

The problem with that is, being you a woman and I’m a man, I can find your face pretty attractive and you are the cause of my distraction of my religion duties

Therefore, being you a pretty face, you must cover that face

period

As the west must cover the food because of over weight problems

Muslim women do not cover so that men won’t be tempted. The temptation of men has nothing to do with the obligation of women to cover. A woman covers to protect herself! Not to protect the men from temptation. A man doesn’t look at the face of a woman anyway while he’s praying, by the way. But the important point is that a woman doesn’t cover to protect the men–which is what your food/weight analogy means. In Islam it’s the opposite–the woman covers to protect herself.

 

[Sister_Amy]

This is also very true. Fasting at the expense of your health or work is not pleasing to God, and neither does neglecting your family. Not fasting or failing to pray at exactly the right time does not offend God, but neglecting your duties does. The only part I would disagree with is that there is one time of night that is better than others for praying. There’s nothing wrong with structured prayer, but spontaneous prayer is the most common kind, and there are no rules or time restrictions placed on it.

Actually, the teaching had nothing to do with the mandatory prayer or fasting. Muslims do believe that they have to make their prayers at the right time and fast during the right time, and not making that obligation is a huge deal.

But this post was about extra, voluntary worship. And the teaching wasn’t that you don’t have to pray or fast when God has commanded it. It is just that for voluntary worship, you shouldn’t go to such an extreme that your body and your family have to suffer.

The reason Muslims believe that prayer in the last third of the night is best is because it’s quiet, most people are sleeping, and it’s hard to get up. But if you do get up it’s a great time to remember God without anything distracting you.

Structured prayer has a place in Islam, as does unstructured prayer. The former has its set times, but can optionally be performed anytime (with only a few exceptions), and the latter can be performed any time at all. There are also optional fasts and other optional kinds of worship.

 

[Delta2]

You said :

The Qur’an doesn’t tell women to cover so that men won’t be tempted–it tells them to cover for their own purity.

and

But the important point is that a woman doesn’t cover to protect the men–which is what your food/weight analogy means. In Islam it’s the opposite–the woman covers to protect herself.

If it is not because of men temptation, let me CHANGE this bible verse :

John, 18-38.
Pilate saith unto him (Jesus), What is truth ? …

into this :

John, 18-38.
Pilate (Delta2) saith unto him (her - Sister Amy), What is purity ? …

 

[Sister_Amy]

Modesty. Chastity. Privacy. Perhaps her private parts.

 

[Delta2]

Modesty. Chastity. Privacy. Perhaps her private parts.

ok…you don’t get the point, but from whom ? from another woman ?

Does a woman cover herself to protect “her purity” from another woman ?

The modesty from another woman ?
The Chastity from another woman ?
the private parts from another woman ?

Sorry me, but that’s doesn’t make any sense, say instead :

from men temptation

 

[Sister_Amy]

ok…you don’t get the point, but from whom ? from another woman ?

Does a woman cover herself to protect “her purity” from another woman ?

The modesty from another woman ?
The Chastity from another woman ?
the private parts from another woman ?

Sorry me, but that’s doesn’t make any sense, say instead :

from men temptation

A woman doesn’t have to cover in front of other women, or in front of her family.

What you were suggesting is that women have to cover to protect MEN from temptation.

Women have to cover in front of men to protect THEMSELVES.

 

[Delta2]

Women have to cover in front of men to protect THEMSELVES.

Why ? what does the men do so harmful ?

From a very bad man, because I’m as a man don’t do any harm to the “purity” of the women

Am I tempted ? of course, I am

Do I neglect my natural needs ? I DO, when they are against God, Love, Family, the Law, the society…etc…

Here is my answer to the topic

 

[Sister_Amy]

I see you still have the wrong mentality about the whole thing.

You’re still thinking that women cover to protect themselves from men.

This is about women, now. Women are pretty. So they have the option to show their beauty to men, or to keep it private and only show it to their husbands.

But if they show it to everyone, that can affect their behavior. Make them enjoy the attention, and let everyone “enjoy” watching them. And that might encourage the woman to behave in an open and promiscuous manner.

And if that doesn’t explain it to you, then let me say this: I don’t want people (i.e., strange men) LOOKING at me. So I cover.

 

[cyberjacques]

I see you still have the wrong mentality about the whole thing.

You’re still thinking that women cover to protect themselves from men.

This is about women, now. Women are pretty. So they have the option to show their beauty to men, or to keep it private and only show it to their husbands.

But if they show it to everyone, that can affect their behavior. Make them enjoy the attention, and let everyone “enjoy” watching them. And that might encourage the woman to behave in an open and promiscuous manner.

And if that doesn’t explain it to you, then let me say this: I don’t want people (i.e., strange men) LOOKING at me. So I cover.

Your modesty is admirable, however I would contest your suggestion that Muslim women don’t cover up to protect themselves from men, Muslim men in particular. I would refer you to the widespread news coverage on European Muslim rape cases. Here’s a blog on the subject, containing some links to news articles:

Muslim Rape Epidemic in Sweden and Norway - Authorities Look the Other Way

The traditional Muslim attitude on female dress codes is that any woman who is not sufficiently covered is inviting men to rape or otherwise brutalize her. The specifics are described in the blog and linked articles.

 

[Sister_Amy]

I don’t subscribe to that opinion because I haven’t been shown that to be the opinion of Islam.

If someone is hell-bent on commiting rape, I seriously doubt that a little bit of fabric will make him change his mind. I don’t really think that covering prevents rape. I do think it prevents other things, though, which can also be detrimental to society.