Don't read the bible

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kaycee:
Failed to include? I just stated a fact of history. Clearly, the mistaken sentiment in this thread that the clergy always encouraged open bible reading was incorrect. Stating historical facts is hardly being dishonest.
Not facts. I notice that none of your claims are linked?? I’m guessing that your “source” can be found from amongst the likes of:

  1. *]Jack Chick.
    *]Lorraine Boettner.
    *]Alexander Hislip.
    All of whom are notorious purveyors of “historical” fiction.

    Sheesh. This stuff gets:rolleyes: really, :rolleyes: really:rolleyes: old about the umpteenth time somebody tries to push it.:yawn::sleep:
 
Kaycee, the point is the Church was doing what it was meant to do, to keep from spreading error. Read carefully the text you quote. I’ll highlight the relevant parts. It wasn’t the Scripture which the Church didn’t want people to read it was erroneous translations of Scripture! That is a Church responsibility, to not mislead the people of God.
The Council of Tarragona of 1234, in its second canon, ruled that: "No one may possess the books of the Old and New Testaments in the Romance language,
Not an authorized version, but a translation which may contain errors.
John Wycliffe was the very first to translate the entire Bible into English, which he completed in 1382. Wycliffe translated from the Latin Vulgate. One copy of an original manuscript is in the Bodlein Library in Oxford, England. Wycliffe’s Bibles were painstakingly reproduced by hand by copyists.
And it contained errors. The Church was responsible to prevent errors from being taught.
In 1408 the third synod of Oxford, England, banned ***unauthorized English translations ***
"It is dangerous, as St. Jerome declares, to translate the text of Holy Scriptures out of one idiom into another, since it is not easy in translations to preserve exactly the same meaning in all things.
We therefore command and ordain that henceforth no one translate the text of Holy Scripture into English or any other language as a book, booklet, or tract, of this kind lately made in the time of the said John Wyclif or since, or that hereafter may be made, either in part or wholly, either publicly or privately, under pain of excommunication, until such translation shall have been approved and allowed by the Provincial Council.
The Catholic Church was never against reading an authorized version, with guidance of the Church.
 
Tyndale and Wycliff? 😛

Tyndale’s Heresy (LINK)

The Real Story of the ‘Father of the English Bible’

On Sunday, February 24, 2002, the Greenville News ran an article by Deb Reichardson-Moore. She wrote that the business of biblical translation can be dangerous, citing as evidence William Tyndale, whom she wrote “was burned at the stake for the heresy of translating the Greek New Testament into English in 1525.” She reported that today he’s known as “the father of the English Bible.”

Phrasing it this way makes it sound as if the heresy Tyndale was condemned for was the act of translating the Bible into English. This is a common mistake and often repeated. In fact, when doing a bit of research for this article, I came across several web sites on Tyndale that said just this. One stated, “Translating the Bible was considered a heresy” (ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/geoff_whiley/tyndale.htm). Another proclaimed that in 1408 a law was enacted that forbade the translation of the Bible into English and also made reading the Bible illegal (britannia.com/bios/tyndale.html).

Of course, anyone familiar with the history of the Catholic Church, which for 2,000 years has been preserving and protecting the Word of God, recognizes how ludicrous this is. It was is only by the authority of the Catholic Church, which collected the various books of Scripture in the fourth century, that we have a Christian Bible at all. And it is only because of the Church that the Bible survived and was taught for the many centuries before the printing press made it widely available. All Christians everywhere owe it a great debt for that.

So what was the real reason William Tyndale was condemned? Was translating the Bible into English actually illegal? The answer is no. The law that was passed in 1408 was in reaction to another infamous translator, John Wycliff. Wycliff had produced a translation of the Bible that was corrupt and full of heresy. It was not an accurate rendering of sacred Scripture.
Some heroes…:rolleyes:
 
From perusal of kaycee’s profile, I’d say you’re correct, Manny.

And considering that his/her particular objections are dealt with right here in the Catholic Answers library, and have been addressed many times by other posters as well, it’s rather. . .intriguing. . .that someone who has spent as much time on the forums and seen the notations and references etc. would still be posting misinformation. . .

I mean, I just can’t imagine that somebody would go to a math teacher and say, “You’re teaching wrong math. You’re teaching that division is multiplication.” And the teacher would carefully bring out the textbooks, and show that indeed s/he is teaching division, not multiplication equaling division. And the teacher would have students come forth and demonstrate that they understood division as division. And there would be records to show that this had always been the school policy, and that the subject had always been taught that way. And yet in the end the person would** still** say, “But say you’re teaching wrong math. You’re teaching that division is multiplication”, in spite of all the evidence he was given.

Yet day after day we see people given authentic Catholic teaching, sources authorized, evidence from literally hundreds of people concerned. . .and despite this, people will inform us that, no, we Catholics are teaching ‘something else’ because what **they ** read or heard ‘tells them so.’
 
someone who lived through the transition (of vatican II) told me.
Ask the person why he believes this. It might just be his/her misconception. I, personally, am the proud guardian of our family’s bible. It’s an 1860 Catholic bible. This has been a cherished possession of my family for generations. As already shown, there’s many distortions when it comes to the history of the Church and the Bible.
 
Ask the person why he believes this. It might just be his/her misconception. I, personally, am the proud guardian of our family’s bible. It’s an 1860 Catholic bible. This has been a cherished possession of my family for generations. As already shown, there’s many distortions when it comes to the history of the Church and the Bible.
Oh what a treasure to have.:bowdown2: :bible1: You probably have all the important information about your ancestors written down in there too.👍
 
I’ve never heard of Catholics being told not to read the bible. :eek:
 
The responses here are quit interesting. I went to 11 years of Catholic school prior to Vatican II. We were told NEVER to read the bible unless a priest was present to guide us. We were also told that every house must have a bible under the pain of sin. As I grew older and put all this into perspective I realized that it was a control thing by the church. They were trying to protect us from interpreting the bible in the wrong way. The times were different prior to Vatican II. In school I was taught nothing but guilt and fear of God. There was never any mention of love. I was also taught that one NEVER should question anything a priest says. Remember this was an era when a women were considered dirty and vulgar for giving birth to a baby. The only way she could re-enter the church was to go through a ritual called “Being Churched”. The priest meet her at the back of the church and forgave her sin of childbirth. I remember this well for my mother sat and cried because she could not go to Sunday mass until she was churched. So back to the bible. I applaud Vatican II for it brought God’s word closer to the full meaning that Christ intended.🙂
 
Based on some of the weird stuff that people recount about what they were supposedly taught, I’m kinda glad they may have been told not to read the Bible. :eek: As mangled as some of the Catholic teachings are that they say they believed…just imagine the mess they’d’'ve made of the Word of God. :rolleyes:

It’s mighty strange to me to hear all this stuff because my sainted grandmother knew the Bible better than anyone I’ve ever known and her family were Polish Catholics.
 
Johnboyfl, I would really appreciate seeing some documentation for your claims regarding churching.

For, strangely enough, on my search on this topic I see nothing about women prior to Vatican II being ‘forced to be kept from Mass until after churching’.

I do see this ‘claim’ on sites which are extremely. . .shall we say, not of the Catholic persuasion. . .sites like womanpriest, infidels.org, etc.

Having been born in the 1920s, and having children in the 1950s, my mother has knowledge of what was ‘standard procedure’–and says this was certainly never her experience, nor that of any of her peers, nor that of her own mother or aunts. . .
 
I read the Bible on my own, I hear it during Mass on Saturday afternoon.
 
Not facts. I notice that none of your claims are linked?? I’m guessing that your “source” can be found from amongst the likes of:

  1. *]Jack Chick.
    *]Lorraine Boettner.
    *]Alexander Hislip.
    All of whom are notorious purveyors of “historical” fiction.

    Sheesh. This stuff gets:rolleyes: really, :rolleyes: really:rolleyes: old about the umpteenth time somebody tries to push it.:yawn::sleep:
    1. chick is WAY out there.
    2. never read him
    3. never heard of him
    I would be interested to see the Errors created by Wycliffe from Jeromes Latin. AND the errors in Tyndales bible from Erasmus’s greek transaltion.
 
Tyndale and Wycliff? 😛

Of course, anyone familiar with the history of the Catholic Church, which for 2,000 years has been preserving and protecting the Word of God, recognizes how ludicrous this is. It was is only by the authority of the Catholic Church, which collected the various books of Scripture in the fourth century, that we have a Christian Bible at all. And it is only because of the Church that the Bible survived and was taught for the many centuries before the printing press made it widely available. All Christians everywhere owe it a great debt for that. God hardly needed the Catholic churches help in preserving His Word. He obviously used the early church to copy and spread His word.

The entire new testament could be found in the quotes of the ECF’s well before 700 AD, not to mention the Alexandrian manuscripts.
So what was the real reason William Tyndale was condemned? Was translating the Bible into English actually illegal? The answer is no. The law that was passed in 1408 was in reaction to another infamous translator, John Wycliff. Wycliff had produced a translation of the Bible that was corrupt and full of heresy. It was not an accurate rendering of sacred Scripture.
Wycliffe used Jerome’s Latin vulgate, show me the errors.

Tyndale used Erasmus’s Greek translation, errors please?

Was burning at the stake the biblical means of confronting error?
 
someone who lived through the transition (of vatican II) told me.
Umm, then they would have to explain why all those Catholic bibles were printed before Vatican II. Go on ebay and you’ll find lots of 'em. Somebody printed them, and somebody bought them!

They’ll even have to explain why I was given a bible for my First Communion in 1962, as were all the members of my class.
 
To prevent things like the Reformation from happening.
Indeed, this is a problem that Protestants must admit to. Even disregarding the Catholic Church, look at all the “bible-believing” beliefs out there, from the Eastern Orthodox through all the mainstream and “exotic” Protestant belief systems right on through those “bible-believing” groups that deny such fundamentals of the faith as the true nature of Christ and the true nature of the Trinity. Yes, they all point to the bible as the source of their beliefs. Every heresy (even what Protestants would consider heresy) appeals to the bible for proof.
 
Failed to include? I just stated a fact of history. Clearly, the mistaken sentiment in this thread that the clergy always encouraged open bible reading was incorrect. Stating historical facts is hardly being dishonest.
Kaycee, you must admit that any time something is translated from one language to another, something is lost. The more translations, the more the original intent is lost.

If you are claiming the Catholic Church wished no one to read the Bible, then why would they print the Bible in the most common read language throughout any part of the civilized world?

Now, to your point of the council. To state that they wished to ban the translations in the romance language without examining why they banned it is amateurish. To state they wished to ban the translations, while knowing why they banned the translations AND LEAVING THAT FACT OUT, it intellectually dishonest.

Look at the KJV of the Bible. If some group came out with a new version that claimed that all flesh is evil, and all sex is evil, and Christ was not a man because then He would be evil - then what would your church group do? Would you sit idly by and let them publish and distribute this Bible Translation? This is exactly what our friends the Albigensiens were doing.
 
The Council of Toulouse,1229.

Canon 14. We prohibit also that the laity should be permitted to have the books of the Old or New Testament; unless anyone from motive of devotion should wish to have the Psalter or the Breviary for divine offices or the hours of the blessed Virgin; but we most strictly forbid their having any translation of these books.
Not only were there poor translations, but most people did not read, and most were uneducated. They did not have the exegetical training to understand and interpret the text. When you look at what has occurred in the Protestant denominations, you can clearly see why the Church was trying to protect the ignorant from the fragmentation they knew would result by erroneous understanding. By the time Leo XIII encouraged it, there were better translatins, better education, and more educated priests to help the laity.
 
The responses here are quit interesting. I went to 11 years of Catholic school prior to Vatican II. We were told NEVER to read the bible unless a priest was present to guide us. We were also told that every house must have a bible under the pain of sin. As I grew older and put all this into perspective I realized that it was a control thing by the church. They were trying to protect us from interpreting the bible in the wrong way. The times were different prior to Vatican II. In school I was taught nothing but guilt and fear of God. There was never any mention of love. I was also taught that one NEVER should question anything a priest says. Remember this was an era when a women were considered dirty and vulgar for giving birth to a baby. The only way she could re-enter the church was to go through a ritual called “Being Churched”. The priest meet her at the back of the church and forgave her sin of childbirth. I remember this well for my mother sat and cried because she could not go to Sunday mass until she was churched. So back to the bible. I applaud Vatican II for it brought God’s word closer to the full meaning that Christ intended.🙂
I am sorry that you had this experience. I would never say that such things did not happen but it may comfort you to know that that was not a universal practice prior to VII. My guess is that this might have been a particular parish/pastor with some control issues. Priests are people too.

At the very least, this type of experience was long gone before Vatican II. My mother had all of her children way before VII and was back in Church the following Sunday after returning from the hospital with each of her five children.

My schooling pre-Vatican II was full of the Bible and of the teaching of God’s love and mercy. I don’t think this was a local phenomenom since I went to school in three states and one foreign country before VII. We also got a good dose of the need for “fear of the Lord” too which was missing in later Catechesis.
 
God hardly needed the Catholic churches help in preserving His Word. He obviously used the early church to copy and spread His word.
You silly goose! They WERE all Catholics! The protestants did not come along for 1400 years!!!
The entire new testament could be found in the quotes of the ECF’s well before 700 AD, not to mention the Alexandrian manuscripts.
Do you think the Eastern churches were Lutheran, or Anglican?

Was burning at the stake the biblical means of confronting error?

I think stoning was preferred. 😃

1 Tim 1:19-20
By rejecting conscience, certain persons have made shipwreck of their faith, 20 among them Hymenae’us and Alexander, whom I have delivered to Satan that they may learn not to blaspheme.

Could this involve burning at the stake?

or this?

1 Cor 5:3-5

3 For though absent in body I am present in spirit, and as if present, I have already pronounced judgment 4 in the name of the Lord Jesus on the man who has done such a thing. When you are assembled, and my spirit is present, with the power of our Lord Jesus, 5 you are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
 
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