C
child_of_God85
Guest
Lol, sign of the devil! The hand sign means ‘I love you’.
- Status
W
Wampa
Guest
Let’s not chastise distracted for a plausible interpretation. Simone is not making an I Love You sign in that video (note her thumb is in, not out). She’s throwing up the “metal horns”, which makes perfect sense, since she is a metal vocalist.
Whether or not the metal horns are “the sign of the devil” is arguable. Some people within metal surely mean it that way. Most don’t. I don’t and I’m certain Simone doesn’t. Context matters.
For the record, I’m a huge Epica fan and I don’t find myself agreeing with distracted very often, but please recognize that it’s more than fair for a person completely unknowledgeable about the metal subculture to assume the metal horns are the sign of the devil. I can spend all day explaining why it’s mostly not, but to laugh at such a person as “not getting out much” is unkind and unfair.
M
MugenOne
Guest
I’m a fan of Epica too.
P
Portrait
Guest
Dear Friend,
Cordial greetings and thankyou most kindly for your remarks above.
By way of reply I would say that rock music conveys a message irrespective of what ideaology is inserted into the music itself; rock is communication without words, the lyrics only inform one as to what the music is already saying - incontrovertibly* the music per se is its own message*. It is mere wishful thinking to regard rock as some sort of pliable medium that can be bent into any direction, even a Christian one. Moreover, it is simply not possible to change the basic effect of certain kinds of rythym and beat by appending to them a few religious or semi-religious words, as is attempted in so-called Christian rock - a futile enterprise from the very start because rock music is beyond artistic redemption anyway. The characterstic beat will continue to penetrate through to the blood of the participants and listeners; plus decibles and beat are bold animals, which can so very easily submerge the words under an avalanche of sound, in the case of rock the sound of sexual permissiveness and rebellion against authority.
‘Christian rock music’ is a myth that very few orthodox Catholics would assent to as the whole notion is utterly risible and, what is more to the point, untenable. What are we describing by ‘Christian rock music’? Take a sheet of music from a ‘Christian song’ and one from a ‘secular song’; are they essentially different?. Is a B flat in a hymn any different from one in some bawdy rock number? Can you distinguish a Christian quaver from a non-Christian one? Nobody is questioning the point that one can have Christian musiciians, but the simple fact of the matter is that there is no such thing as Christian music. There are Christians and there is music; there is music that reflects the glory of God and music that fails to do so. One can take it further: there are Christians who write and play deplorably bad music and non-Christians who write and play good music. Music is not rendered ‘good’ because it is performed in a religious context by a religious artist, any more than music is ‘bad’ because it is being performed in a ‘secular’ context by a non-Christian artist. All of these divisions tend to blur the truth. Music must be appraised not by its context but by its content.
Unfortunately, rock music is just inherently egregious music which rather that ennobling men has a tendency to degrade them by reducing their resistance to that which is morally deparaved and unwholesome. Music has the ability to form or deform character and is the most powerful stimulus known among the perceptive senses. The medical, psychiatric and other evidences for the non-neutrality of music is so overwhelming that it frankly never ceases to amaze me when men seriously say otherwise.
The Augean stable of which I speak is used in a figurative sense to denote the unsavoury and morally depraved origins of rock music.
Warmest good wishes,
Portrait
P
Portrait
Guest
Dear Friend,What is your evidence for rock music being sexual? And since we’re on the subject, what makes Christian rock sexual?
And what evidence is there for it being inseperable? You claim to base your arguments on facts, but this, one of your biggest points, is a big-ol’ slab of USDA Grade-A opinion! Let’s hear that evidence.
And how does Christian rock fit into all this? How do those bands I mentioned earlier fit into all this?
You too.
First, even the most vociferous rock music fanatics acknowledge that there is much in the scene to cause disquiet to any tender Christian conscience. A very large perecentage of rock and pop tracks contain in their lyrics flagrant un-Christian morality. There is an abundance of evidence to validate this assertion and as I have said previously in these debates, it is not so much an issue of insufficient evidence, more an issue of the morally deparaved nature of that evidence which is too offensive to cite on CAF.
Your point respecting Christian rock has, I think, been fully dealt with in my previous post.
Second, all Christians who are striving to pursue holiness and to set their affections on the things above, will surely wish to give a wide berth to a genre of music whose chief message is sexual permissiveness. One cannot listen to this despicable music without any risk of becoming befouled by its immoral associations and outlook, even if this is not immediately apparent. If we are not on guard against evil then we are very likely to be influenced by it.
The life of virtue is incompatible with this culturally unsavoury music, which has such manifestly obvious immoral associations, associations from which it cannot be dissevered.
Warmest good wishes,
Portrait
L
Lost_Wanderer
Guest
You don’t have to put the lyrics. Furthermore, the question was in regards to the sexual elements in rock you claim to have “abundance of evidence” of (a mantra you constantly parrot yet never so much procure a hint of any psychological/scientific study).
In short, quit making excuses and cough up the proof already.
T
Tally_Marx
Guest
Hye again, Portrait!
Lennon may well have said that rock music promotes these things… and it often does. However, I highly doubt that he said the beat in and of itself is sexual/etc, and even if he did, it would hardly matter, for he would have no grounds to make such an assumption other than his own inspirations. Again, a beat in and of itself can only portray a vague emotion (for example, passion). This is true of any genre, from classical to rock. However, words give form to this emotion and inform the reader of that which it (the passion) is directed at. The words fit the beat… and this gives rock an advantage which classical music doesn’t have. Because while a passionate classical piece may be interpreted to be about almost anything which involves passion (sex, perhaps, if one is inclined to relate passion with sex?), the words in a rock song (or in any genre) leave no doubt in the listener’s mind as to what that passion is directed at. Switchfoot’s “Mess of Me” has a passionate, almost harsh, beat–but it’s clear that this passion isn’t about sex but about self-reformation.
Have you ever read Jason Evert’s “Answering Jehovah’s Witnesses”? An excellent book and I highly recommend it if you enjoy apologetics. That aside, he said something very wise in that book. His words were directed toward JWs objections to Christian/Catholic holydays and customs which mirror pagan holidays and customs. Jason says that, since God never abandoned His people, pagan beliefs contain elements of truth, and “What makes paganism problematic is that those elements are obscured by sin… but when the elements of truth are distilled out of their pagan context and properly seen in the light of God’s revelation, they are no longer problematic, as God is ultimately the source of all truth.” God, being our Author, is the reason we have emotions for music to incite. Now, if we take out the horrible words (which pervert the emotions) and put in good ones (see music in its proper context–to further glorify God) how can any music be evil? Remember, you haven’t proven that the beat of rock itself is evil… so if the words are changed, so is the context of the music.
I hope you had a lovely weekend.
Pax,
~Tally Marx
I never denied that lyrics can (and often do) promote immoral things such as sex and drugs. And you must not deny these horrible things are peddled in practically every genre of music and not more so in rock than in any other.
Lennon may well have said that rock music promotes these things… and it often does. However, I highly doubt that he said the beat in and of itself is sexual/etc, and even if he did, it would hardly matter, for he would have no grounds to make such an assumption other than his own inspirations. Again, a beat in and of itself can only portray a vague emotion (for example, passion). This is true of any genre, from classical to rock. However, words give form to this emotion and inform the reader of that which it (the passion) is directed at. The words fit the beat… and this gives rock an advantage which classical music doesn’t have. Because while a passionate classical piece may be interpreted to be about almost anything which involves passion (sex, perhaps, if one is inclined to relate passion with sex?), the words in a rock song (or in any genre) leave no doubt in the listener’s mind as to what that passion is directed at. Switchfoot’s “Mess of Me” has a passionate, almost harsh, beat–but it’s clear that this passion isn’t about sex but about self-reformation.
I’m sorry, but the burden of proof rests upon you. Unless you can provide me with a song innocent in lyrics which nonetheless undoubtedly and universally inspires people with sexual thoughts, you can provide no basis for your assertions.
See my reply to Quote 2.
Have you ever read Jason Evert’s “Answering Jehovah’s Witnesses”? An excellent book and I highly recommend it if you enjoy apologetics. That aside, he said something very wise in that book. His words were directed toward JWs objections to Christian/Catholic holydays and customs which mirror pagan holidays and customs. Jason says that, since God never abandoned His people, pagan beliefs contain elements of truth, and “What makes paganism problematic is that those elements are obscured by sin… but when the elements of truth are distilled out of their pagan context and properly seen in the light of God’s revelation, they are no longer problematic, as God is ultimately the source of all truth.” God, being our Author, is the reason we have emotions for music to incite. Now, if we take out the horrible words (which pervert the emotions) and put in good ones (see music in its proper context–to further glorify God) how can any music be evil? Remember, you haven’t proven that the beat of rock itself is evil… so if the words are changed, so is the context of the music.
I hope you had a lovely weekend.
Pax,
~Tally Marx
T
Tally_Marx
Guest
Also, please note that the evidence myself and others are requesting is not the “evidence” you say you have, but cannot post. You merely wish to pull up examples of perverted rock artists, whose perversion could well be a result of their fame and fortune, and not rock itself. You do not wish to pull up examples of listeners to Christian rock who were corrupted solely by rock (which would give evidence that rock music itself, regardless of the words, is evil). Nor do you wish to cite some psychological evidence that a beat in and of itself can possibly be a sexual one, or a drug-head one, etc. (Which is what you need, to refute my psychological evidence that we use words to define everything–music included–and that if words are in the music and define the music, and if the words are not evil, then the music therefore cannot be evil)
Pax,
~Tally Marx
P
Portrait
Guest
F.A.O. TALLY MARX
Dear Tally,
Cordial greetings and thankyou again for your very courteous replies.
Whilst I would not dispute the fact that other music, apart from rock/pop, can have immoral overtones, the point at issue is whether one can single out rock music as having specifically sexual connotations. Now I would contend that we most certainly can, for even a mere sampling of statements from leading rock performers demonstrates a blatantly sexual orientation and vulgarity that would make most Christians endowed with any moral sense recoil in disgust.
A driving beat is, however, an indispensable element in rock music. Thus whatever harmonic or melodic or verbal sophistication rock may contain (and I would say that it contains little, if any), it would never appeal as it does without the undergirding of its simple, repetitive, pounding beat. As with repetition, rhythm plays a valid part in all music, but in rock music rhythm is sacrificed at the expense of a relentless driving beat. There is a clear distinction between this pounding beat and authentic rhythm; unlike other forms of music which reveal melodic inventiveness, the focus of rock is invariably on the beat. Unfortunately, when the beat overrides the other elements in a song the communication level is significantly altered to one which is primarily physical and frequently sexual. Rock music can have the effect of inducing an emotional state in which the mind ceases to function as it should and is no longer discriminating. It admits of no doubt that a driving incessant beat does erode a sense of responsibility in much the same way as alcohol does; men are then in the grip of a relentless stream of sound to which something very basic and primitive in fallen human nature readily responds. All this actually ties in with what Pope Benedict said when he was cardinal Ratzinger, namely, that “Rock is the expression of the elemental passions” (Spirit of the Liturgy, Ignatius Press, 2000, p. 148).
Your parity of reasoning between rock music and pagan holidays and customs will not stand up to to scrutiny because rock music is beyond artistic redemption. In the early days of Christianity the Church followed her usual methods in tolerating harmless practices to which pagans were attached with the proviso that they renounced and repudiated all pagan significance. The operative word here is, of course, harmless, for they would not have been tolerated by the Church for one moment had they not been harmless. Look Tally, rock music with its relentless pounding beat will always, irrespective of any ‘good’ lyrics that may be appended to it, have those physical and sexual overtones which appeal to fallen man’s base and primitive nature, or the “elemental passions” (Pope Benedict). With all the good will in the world it can never dissever itself from these negative and potentially harmful influences with which it is inextricably bound up. This is why I have continually stated in these debates that the music is its own message or that it is communication without words; it is debased sensory material and therefore the removal of improper or disturbing lyrics cannot sanitize it.
Warmest good wishes,
Portrait
More to follow shortly.
Dear Tally,
Cordial greetings and thankyou again for your very courteous replies.
Whilst I would not dispute the fact that other music, apart from rock/pop, can have immoral overtones, the point at issue is whether one can single out rock music as having specifically sexual connotations. Now I would contend that we most certainly can, for even a mere sampling of statements from leading rock performers demonstrates a blatantly sexual orientation and vulgarity that would make most Christians endowed with any moral sense recoil in disgust.
A driving beat is, however, an indispensable element in rock music. Thus whatever harmonic or melodic or verbal sophistication rock may contain (and I would say that it contains little, if any), it would never appeal as it does without the undergirding of its simple, repetitive, pounding beat. As with repetition, rhythm plays a valid part in all music, but in rock music rhythm is sacrificed at the expense of a relentless driving beat. There is a clear distinction between this pounding beat and authentic rhythm; unlike other forms of music which reveal melodic inventiveness, the focus of rock is invariably on the beat. Unfortunately, when the beat overrides the other elements in a song the communication level is significantly altered to one which is primarily physical and frequently sexual. Rock music can have the effect of inducing an emotional state in which the mind ceases to function as it should and is no longer discriminating. It admits of no doubt that a driving incessant beat does erode a sense of responsibility in much the same way as alcohol does; men are then in the grip of a relentless stream of sound to which something very basic and primitive in fallen human nature readily responds. All this actually ties in with what Pope Benedict said when he was cardinal Ratzinger, namely, that “Rock is the expression of the elemental passions” (Spirit of the Liturgy, Ignatius Press, 2000, p. 148).
Your parity of reasoning between rock music and pagan holidays and customs will not stand up to to scrutiny because rock music is beyond artistic redemption. In the early days of Christianity the Church followed her usual methods in tolerating harmless practices to which pagans were attached with the proviso that they renounced and repudiated all pagan significance. The operative word here is, of course, harmless, for they would not have been tolerated by the Church for one moment had they not been harmless. Look Tally, rock music with its relentless pounding beat will always, irrespective of any ‘good’ lyrics that may be appended to it, have those physical and sexual overtones which appeal to fallen man’s base and primitive nature, or the “elemental passions” (Pope Benedict). With all the good will in the world it can never dissever itself from these negative and potentially harmful influences with which it is inextricably bound up. This is why I have continually stated in these debates that the music is its own message or that it is communication without words; it is debased sensory material and therefore the removal of improper or disturbing lyrics cannot sanitize it.
Warmest good wishes,
Portrait
More to follow shortly.
W
Wampa
Guest
As a fan primarily of the melodic power metal genre, this comment reveals to me a level of ignorance about the music in question that undermines the majority of your argument.
Most of what you contend is true of some rock and some metal, but the broad brush treatment simply fails to work. Some Christians are discerning enough to pick the good out from the bad (which is a skill needed in every part of culture, from music to movies to television).
J
Joe_5859
Guest
Yes, Portrait is evidently unfamiliar with “Mirror of Souls”.
In these debates, I always encourage people to listen to Dream Theater’s 23 minute "A Change of Seasons".
Being familiar with a variety of progressive and/or symphonic metal, I have difficulty grasping the “driving beat” argument because there is no common beat in such music.I remember seeing the (quite obscure) prog band “Power of Omens” play in concert and the drum beats were so erratic, it almost looked like the drummer was doing advanced algorithms in his head so he knew when to hit which drum next.
It’s the furthest thing from a driving beat you can imagine! 
Unless the only thing necessary for rhythm to be a “driving beat” is that it be played on the drums. That would rule out a whole lot more music than just rock, though.
D
distracted
Guest
where i come from its the sign of the devil…Ummm…It’s really not the sign of the Devil. It is Sign Language for I Love You.
.
(by the way… no need to capitalize “devil”… only his name, which is Satan… but i don’t even usually do that… cuz a grade sch teacher of mine said we capitalize names 2 show that people - as opposed to things - are “important”…
P
Portrait
Guest
Dear Tally,
Rock performers may very well be intoxicated by their infamy and wealth, but that does not alter the fact that their music was from the very outset of their careers revolutionary; its beat and sound has always implicitly rejected restraints and celebrated freedom and sexuality, that Lennon quote surely said as much.
Since I have not delved deeply into the world of so called Christian rock, I cannot adduce any damning evidence of its influence upon listeners. That is something that I will research and look into, however what I have said previously respecting the relentless beat of secular rock would still apply to the Christian variety and render it inappropriate - remember rock music cannot be sanitized because it is debased sensory material.
However, it has been found that "under rock music, the secretion of hormones is more pronounced…which causes an abnormal imbalance in the body’s system, lowers the blood sugar and calcium levels and impairs judgement (David Noebel, Contemporary Christian music Aug-Sept. 1981). Mr. Noebel also cites medical evidence that “the low frequency vibrations of the bass guitar, along with the driving beat of the drum, affect the cerebrospinal fluid, which in turnn affects the pituitary gland, which in turn directs the secretions of hormones in the body”. Even more remarkable is the statement made by Cyril Scott: “Our researches have proved to us that not only the emotional content but essence of the actual musical form tends to reproduce itself in human conduct” (Music; Its Seceret Influence through the Ages).
One secret of music’s great power is that it appeals so directly to the subconcious. Consequently people soak up the meaning of music without being cognizant that they are doing so. Now add to that the volume level, constant repetition and incessant pounding beat which are a distinguishing feature of rock music, and the scene is set for the conditioning process. Many Christians maintain that they have no big problem with listening to rock/pop music containing perverted lyrics because they just ‘fade out’ the offensive words and listen to the music only. However, they have sadly missed the vital point that the music itself, which conveys its own message, is affecting them at an even deeper level without them being aware of it. Now unconciously perceived data meets no resistance or qualification by the intellect and herein lies the problem with rock music. This is rather sinister in so far as a man is leaving himself open to all manner of negative and immoral influences and is not being given the choice to either consciously evaluate them and, if need be, refuse them!
Warmest good wishes,
Portrait
D
distracted
Guest
i was following you up to this point… kinda even half-way agreeing… (sort of ) but then you say this:
it
you obviously haven’t listened to some of the good stuff… i haven’t listened to a lot of it myself. lately. haven’t listened to a whole lot of rock in the last several yrs cuz got into Jesus… and got into spriitual music… some of what i found of that latter is very beautiful and uplifting… and even a little rock-sounding… but i digress…
also, i think all the good stuff was written b4 … say 1990 or so…
i am as devout a Christian as you could find but i still like some of the better rock music & i know i always will… if the desire to hear it hasn’t diminished by now, its not gonna… I don’t care for the heavy stuff & i definitely don’t like the stuff about illicit sex and other out- there stuf… but there is some good music out there, with valid messages…
i don’t know why… but it seems on these forums… people just seem compelled to say outrageous things … to say EXTREME things… like this… that rock has no redemptive artistic value…
You are, in so doing, unsulting a large part of the population… even Christians… Ok, so its not so Christain to listen to nothing but rock music and i don’t recommend doing that… i myself haven’t listened to it in several days… maybe a week… altho, again, i have this one song or 2 continuously playing in my head & it doesn’t seem to want to go away… but even still… it hasn’t caused me to sin in any big way… so what’s the prob?no comprendo…
S
st_lucy
Guest
After reading the WHOLE thread, I have come out of this rather informed.
Being a lover of all music, (my play list consist of everything from veggie tales to iron madian, from bach to alan jackson, from musicals to the jonas brothers). I have learned that not only is my heavy metal EVIL, now you guys went and ruined my hero Beethoven. (WHY!!!) And not to mention pointing out to me how bad opera is, what will I do now?
On a serious note one of the things I love about my religion is that we know that everything comes from God, and it is how we (and I mean we, as individuals handle it, we cannot blame anyone but ourselves for falling into occultism) There are so many Christian groups who take this so wrong, with dancing being bad, you cannot drink, you cannot dress certain ways etc, etc. But as Catholics we know we will be judged on how we handle our crosses. That is not to say we should condone bad behavior we absolutely should but we should not be looking for it where it may not be.
Now back to the subject of music, has anyone ever listened to the song by Bonnie Tayler “I need a Hero” and ever imagined a Nun singing this song. Her Hero being Jesus? Every time I hear this song I can think of My Lord being that Hero.
Also here is a video of some nuns - gasp- rapping very cute.
And to Lost Wanderer, I also love Indi music, to answer your question on if anyone here listens to any other music other than “western” music.
Being a lover of all music, (my play list consist of everything from veggie tales to iron madian, from bach to alan jackson, from musicals to the jonas brothers). I have learned that not only is my heavy metal EVIL, now you guys went and ruined my hero Beethoven. (WHY!!!) And not to mention pointing out to me how bad opera is, what will I do now?
On a serious note one of the things I love about my religion is that we know that everything comes from God, and it is how we (and I mean we, as individuals handle it, we cannot blame anyone but ourselves for falling into occultism) There are so many Christian groups who take this so wrong, with dancing being bad, you cannot drink, you cannot dress certain ways etc, etc. But as Catholics we know we will be judged on how we handle our crosses. That is not to say we should condone bad behavior we absolutely should but we should not be looking for it where it may not be.
Now back to the subject of music, has anyone ever listened to the song by Bonnie Tayler “I need a Hero” and ever imagined a Nun singing this song. Her Hero being Jesus? Every time I hear this song I can think of My Lord being that Hero.
Also here is a video of some nuns - gasp- rapping very cute.
And to Lost Wanderer, I also love Indi music, to answer your question on if anyone here listens to any other music other than “western” music.
D
distracted
Guest
there are many songs that make me think the words should be dedicated to Jesus… and not… some humanoid…After reading the WHOLE thread, I have come out of this rather informed.
Being a lover of all music, (my play list consist of everything from veggie tales to iron madian, from bach to alan jackson, from musicals to the jonas brothers). I have learned that not only is my heavy metal EVIL, now you guys went and ruined my hero Beethoven. (WHY!!!) And not to mention pointing out to me how bad opera is, what will I do now?
On a serious note one of the things I love about my religion is that we know that everything comes from God, and it is how we (and I mean we, as individuals handle it, we cannot blame anyone but ourselves for falling into occultism) There are so many Christian groups who take this so wrong, with dancing being bad, you cannot drink, you cannot dress certain ways etc, etc. But as Catholics we know we will be judged on how we handle our crosses. That is not to say we should condone bad behavior we absolutely should but we should not be looking for it where it may not be.
Now back to the subject of music, has anyone ever listened to the song by Bonnie Tayler “I need a Hero” and ever imagined a Nun singing this song. Her Hero being Jesus? Every time I hear this song I can think of My Lord being that Hero.
Also here is a video of some nuns - gasp- rapping very cute.
And to Lost Wanderer, I also love Indi music, to answer your question on if anyone here listens to any other music other than “western” music.
this one song by Yes keeps taking up space in my head… but the words i have dedicated to Jesus…
One road to loneliness… always the same…
One road to happiness… it’s calling your name…
Jesus is calling our names… He is the only one who can take away our loneliness… the only real Friend any of us has, whether we realize it or not…
I
itrytofight
Guest
So, we just listen to songs only about Jesus or whatever Catholic church related and burn or disregard all other choices?
Don’t get me wrong, there is a time and place for such music (and there are many of us who should make time for that too) but I don’t think we should trash the songs artist put their hearts into whether it be gregorian chant, orchestrational, jazz, j-pop, and/or (dare I say it, despite not listening to much of it) rock on the basis that it isn’t Catholic in nature or in message, ESPECIALLY if said song is of another culture different from the Catholic one,
L
Lost_Wanderer
Guest
Disregarding Noebel’s questionable reputation for drawing laughable parallels typical of fundamentalist evangelist… you do know not all hormones are sexual right?
Here’s one particular hormone that I just love. It’s called Epinephrine but more popularly known as… adrenaline.
He wrote that book during 1933… don’t you think your info is just a little bit outdated? Cite some fresher resources please. Furthermore, looking up Cyril Scott brought out a a composer who mixes science, philosophy, and religion… not exactly the best combination when looking for a solely scientific source for your evidence.
T
Tally_Marx
Guest
Thank you for another lovely and heartfelt reply, Portrait! To address the above quote, I would like to point out that most Western music has simple repetitive patterns of beat. In fact, it is so simple and repetitive that I use country music to teach my piano students to recognize the measures in a song. Many, many songs are repetitive and simple. I can’t count the number of songs with a time signature of 4/4 or 3/4 (a time signature being the number of beats in a measure). Typically, there is a set and certain number of beats within any measure, whether that music is rock or not, and this time signature holds for the entire song. Now, if you don’t mean the beat but rather the chord sequence of the song… well, there are many simple chord sequences in songs that aren’t rock. Actually, if you want simple pieces, don’t look to rock to find them. I definitely do not begin my new students with rock. Instead, I give them “The Battle Hymn of the Republic”, “Sing of Mary”, “Ode to Joy”, and mostly a whole bunch of Catholic songs so they can play at Communion services at nursing homes. Rock can get complicated. Have you ever tried to play “Dust in the Wind” or “Hold the Line” on the guitar? Just ask my lead guitarist—she’ll tell you how tough it is. Have you ever played “Viva la Vida” on the synth or “Saturday in the Park” on the piano? That’s complicated! Is rock as a rule simple? No, it is not. And if you insist that it is, then you must be terrific musician. As for rock being “pounding”, this is neither inclusive nor exclusive of other genres. Not all rock songs are pounding, and not only rock songs possess a pounding beat.
The beat is based upon the rhythm and therefore cannot override the rhythm. You can have a song without a beat, but you cannot have a song without a rhythm.
cnx.org/content/m10956/latest/#s1 – on beat and measure
cnx.org/content/m11646/latest/ - on rhythm
cnx.org/content/m12405/latest/ - on meter
Actually, Western music focuses on melody and harmony… while many types of music from other parts of the world have no harmony or even melody.
(tbc, ~Tally)
T
Tally_Marx
Guest
Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe you are speaking of hypnosis. However, in order for what you are saying to occur, it must be true monotony. I can see how a beat such as a Native American drum beat (think war!) could be a monotonous count of beat. However, it would hardly be monotonous if the flute joined in and changed the tone (played different notes). It would be the difference between tapping your left knee and then your right knee—each for a count of one—and playing
E, D,C,D,E,E,E,D,D,D,E,G,G, each with a count of one (actually, you would find yourself playing Mary Had A Little Lamb and not senseless beat, as the former was). Now add WORDS to your beat and you get a whole new level of complexity. Definitely not monotony and therefore not hypnosis, which works through a constant something in order to lull the mind so that it accepts suggestions.
But it’s not just a beat, it’s a rhythm and chords and words.
Was he speaking of solely the beat, solely the words, or the music as a cohesive whole (which is the way its supposed to be seen, listened to, and comprehended)?
You still have not proven that.
(tbc, ~Tally)
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