Don't Understand the Eucharist

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Hello, and I apologize if I am posting this in the wrong section. I just had an extremely awkward and confusing RCIA class and I’m trying to wrap my mind around it.

From my understanding via the Priest:

Jesus is in heaven and we are sacrificing him for our sins. During the Eucharist he is bleeding in heaven.

The body is dipped into the blood and turned into the body and blood of Jesus in one and is set upon the linen which resembles his burial cloth. When it is broken in two it represents Jesus being broken on the cross.

Jesus is part of the Trinity, so God is now lying on the burial cloth on the table for us to consume later.

We sacrifice God to God so so we can be forgiven of our sins by God.

I can honestly say I cannot wrap my mind around that idea. I don’t mean any offense by this post, so please don’t take it that way.
 
Honestly - We can’t quite get our heads around it either…It is a great mystery.
Many great minds have pondered and written on the matter.

That said, as much as we do not understand, it remains a tremendous gift for which I am eternally grateful to my heavenly Father, and my dear Lord.

Sorry - short of time right now…I’m sure others will give you good answers and resources.

Peace
James
 
Here are some important considerations of the Mass which should help.
The Nature of the Sacrifice of the Mass from Ludwig Ott, Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma.

"In the Sacrifice of the Mass, Christ’s Sacrifice on the Cross is made present, its memory is celebrated, and its saving power is applied. "(De fide.)

“In the Sacrifice of the Mass and in the Sacrifice of the Cross the Sacrificial Gift and the Primary Sacrificing Priest are identical; only the nature and mode of the offering are different.” (De fide.)

“The essential Sacrificial Action consists in the Transubstantiation alone. (Sent. communis.)”

“The Sacrifice of the Mass is not merely a sacrifice of praise and thanksgiving, but also a sacrifice of expiation and impetration.”(De fide.)

And here is a nice summary of what it is not.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=765464&page=13
"The Mass is not a repetition of Christ’s sacrifice. It is the same sacrifice. Not a repeated one, or an additional one, or a subsequent one, or another one, or a sequential one, or a renewed one. It’s the same one. The one at Calvary. That one.The one continually offered by the Son to the Father. There are no sacrifices. There is the One Sacrifice. Which is made present to us at the altar, in the Eucharist. "

GKC​

This is stated by an Anglican

And here is a fuller explanation of the Mass.
catholic.com/tracts/the-sacrifice-of-the-mass

May God bless and keep you. May God’s face shine on you. May God be kind to you and give you peace.
 
Hello, and I apologize if I am posting this in the wrong section. I just had an extremely awkward and confusing RCIA class and I’m trying to wrap my mind around it.

From my understanding via the Priest:

Jesus is in heaven and we are sacrificing him for our sins. During the Eucharist he is bleeding in heaven.

The body is dipped into the blood and turned into the body and blood of Jesus in one and is set upon the linen which resembles his burial cloth. When it is broken in two it represents Jesus being broken on the cross.

Jesus is part of the Trinity, so God is now lying on the burial cloth on the table for us to consume later.

We sacrifice God to God so so we can be forgiven of our sins by God.

I can honestly say I cannot wrap my mind around that idea. I don’t mean any offense by this post, so please don’t take it that way.
I think you are trying too hard to “understand” the Eucharist. It is a tremendous mystery, as is God.

We Catholics are comfortable with mystery. don’t try to fully understand the mysteries of God. What is essential is that you believe. The Eucharist is food for the Soul. We believe it to be the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Our Lord Jesus Christ who also just happens to be the second person of the Most Holy Trinity.

Jesus, being God, is omni-present, but he is present in a super-substantial way in the Eucharist, hidden under the appearance of bread and wine.

I’d recommend you get a Catechism of the Catholic Church if you have not done so already and read the section on the Eucharist.

Jesus Bless You!!!
 
Ah a mystery, I see. Thank you all for the great answers.
 
Hello, and I apologize if I am posting this in the wrong section. I just had an extremely awkward and confusing RCIA class and I’m trying to wrap my mind around it.

From my understanding via the Priest:

Jesus is in heaven and we are sacrificing him for our sins. During the Eucharist he is bleeding in heaven.

The body is dipped into the blood and turned into the body and blood of Jesus in one and is set upon the linen which resembles his burial cloth. When it is broken in two it represents Jesus being broken on the cross.

Jesus is part of the Trinity, so God is now lying on the burial cloth on the table for us to consume later.

We sacrifice God to God so so we can be forgiven of our sins by God.

I can honestly say I cannot wrap my mind around that idea. I don’t mean any offense by this post, so please don’t take it that way.
Now even I"M confused.
 
Tim Staples provided the best explanation I’ve ever heard back in Sept on Catholic Answers Live.

catholic.com/radio/shows/open-forum-for-non-catholics-25754

I cant remember the minutes/seconds, but there is two places in this where he talks about the Eucharist.

If I have time to re-listen, I’ll post minutes/seconds; but otherwise, the whole episode was awesome, so listening to the whole thing will be pretty good anyway.

I hope this helps and God Bless
 
So could it be that in some way we are actually there in that upper room sharing in the Last Supper at the Lord’s table?

If this is an explanation, I’m surprised that of the thousands of artistic depictions of the Last Supper, nobody has attempted to introduce that aspect.
 
I hope something was lost in the translation. That’s about the worst explanation I’ve ever heard.

See the attachments for a much better (IMHO) explanation.

Also, note that “mystery” doesn’t mean unexplainable or “just accept it, it doesn’t make sense”.

Something is a mystery when it cannot be **fully **comprehended due to its infinite nature-- for example, the Trinity. It’s explainable, but because it’s infinite and we are finite it is not fully understandable or explainable.
 
Hello, and I apologize if I am posting this in the wrong section. I just had an extremely awkward and confusing RCIA class and I’m trying to wrap my mind around it.

From my understanding via the Priest:

Jesus is in heaven and we are sacrificing him for our sins. During the Eucharist he is bleeding in heaven.

The body is dipped into the blood and turned into the body and blood of Jesus in one and is set upon the linen which resembles his burial cloth. When it is broken in two it represents Jesus being broken on the cross.

Jesus is part of the Trinity, so God is now lying on the burial cloth on the table for us to consume later.

We sacrifice God to God so so we can be forgiven of our sins by God.

I can honestly say I cannot wrap my mind around that idea. I don’t mean any offense by this post, so please don’t take it that way.
I didn’t read all the responses from everyone else, so I don’t know if what I’m about to say has been stated already. When I converted, I treated it for some time like an intellectual endeavor. I tried hard to fully understand everything about what I was learning. I am not suggesting that you not read the Catechism and Bible regularly, by all means, please do so. But I thought I’d share a story. Just before the Easter Vigil and my coming into full communion with the church, I attended the Stations of the Cross at the local parish I was about to join. During Adoration, I had a moment. I can only describe it as an answered prayer. I didn’t hear another voice. I didn’t hear anything really. I just had this silent revelation as I stared at Christ on the Cross. I came to understand in that moment that Christ isn’t a riddle for me to unwrap. I sensed that all He wanted was for me to love Him. I accepted in that moment that I couldn’t understand everything. Jesus Christ transcends intellectualism. I didn’t “get it” until that moment in church. I hope everyone can have a similar revelation. Christ is so much more than an intellectual endeavor. Please read, learn, and pray as much as you can through the process. But if some things seem to big to understand, it is because they are too big to fully understand. That is where your thoughts and feelings of love for Christ take over. It is a truly wonderful and magical moment. God Bless! Good luck as you continue! I hope this can be the encouragement for you that it was meant to be.
 
Thanks again for the answers.

Saying that the explanation isn’t very good is a bit concerning since it was from a Priest. Makes me wonder if I can accept other things he teaches. Definitely not a good sign.

Also I will keep it in mind Took2Long. Right now I don’t have a faith in the church or Christianity in general. I just see the RCC as being the most likely candidate to hold the truth in Christianity. All I have to go on is what makes sense, and maybe the faith will come eventually. It was hard to sit there last night. Without believing in Transubstantiation it all seems very strange.

I find that the hard things to wrap my mind around are always mysteries to be a bit unfortunate. It really feels like a cop out answer to be honest. Time will tell where I fall however.

Thank you all once again.
 
Thanks again for the answers.

Saying that the explanation isn’t very good is a bit concerning since it was from a Priest. Makes me wonder if I can accept other things he teaches. Definitely not a good sign.
I wouldn’t worry too much about the priest. I think that there are things difficult to explain and some people are better at it than others. Plus the person(s) listening are at different spiritual and intellectual levels and this can effect how they “hear” something.
Be patient and keep asking questions.

Something I thought of yesterday that might or might not help - - - but might be worth tossing out here…an analogy.

At this time of year it is common for a person to take a rather mundane item and turn it into something completely different.
I refer to taking a pumpkin and, by thought desire and manipulation turn it into something else - a “Jack-o-lantern” It still appears to be a Pumpkin. If you tasted it, it would taste like pumpkin yet is it a pumpkin?
Nope -
Anyone who comes will say, “What a great Jack-o-lantern”.

Why is it not a pumpkin? Because you (as it’s creator) have instilled it with a new creation…a new spirit if you will. It is no longer a pumpkin even though the incidents of pumpkin remain. It is now something else entirely.

now - If a mere mortal can do this to a pumpkin, how much more so is it possible for God to transform bread and wine into the body and blood of our precious Lord Jesus Christ?

Now having scribbled the above - - remember that analogies are always imperfect. One can always find flaws in them (well mine at least). But take it for what it is worth…I hope it helps a little…

Peace
James
 
Thanks again for the answers.

Saying that the explanation isn’t very good is a bit concerning since it was from a Priest. Makes me wonder if I can accept other things he teaches. Definitely not a good sign.
I wouldn’t be quick to label him untrustworthy. Not everyone has a teaching charism. If he’s been put in this role and is just not good at explaining things, that is quite unfortunate. It doesn’t mean he doesn’t know the teachings, and it doesn’t mean the teachings aren’t true. We can’t all be St. Augustine, St Patrick, and the like.

Fortunately, there are many Catholic theologians and philosophers out there available to you. I can recommend the book Theology For Beginners by Frank Sheed. Don’t let the title fool you. It’s quite deep for being such a small, unassuming book. And, it’s got the intellectual rigor I think you will appreciate.
I find that the hard things to wrap my mind around are always mysteries to be a bit unfortunate. It really feels like a cop out answer to be honest. Time will tell where I fall however.

Thank you all once again.
One non-Christian man in my parish spent 3 years in RCIA. He could not wrap his head around the Eucharist nor believe it. He was Indian, possibly coming from a Hindu background. But, eventually, something (someone… Holy Spirit probably) illuminated his intellect and he came into the Church. And, a man with more love for the Eucharist, you have never met.
 
JRKH, thank you for the analogy. It was clear enough for me to get what you were saying. I think the hard part for me is the idea of God being on this earth. Whether it be walking or at a sacrifice.

1ke, the book will be in on Monday. Just ordered it. I will cut the Priest some slack as the class was covering RCIA folks and confirmation youngsters.

This is my third time through RCIA. Interesting that you brought up the Indian gentleman.
 
Jesus is in heaven and we are sacrificing him for our sins. During the Eucharist he is bleeding in heaven.
Jesus is in Heaven, yes. To say “we are sacrificing him for our sins” is a pretty tricky phrase. I would say, rather, that Jesus has already sacrificed himself for us, and that we are participating in that once-for-all sacrifice by re-presenting it, under the forms/appearances of bread and wine. Look at it this way: Jesus offered himself in a bloody manner on the cross, but he also offered himself in an unbloody manner the night before, to his disciples, under the appearances of bread and wine. So we too, today, are offering Jesus to the Father under the appearances of bread and wine. It is not a NEW sacrifice, or ANOTHER sacrifice, but the same sacrifice made present again.

As for “he is bleeding in heaven”, that is again a rather tricky phrase. Perhaps the priest was alluding to the image that the apostle John saw, recorded in the book of Revelation: he saw, in Heaven, an altar, and on the altar a lamb stood, looking as though it had been slain, but the lamb was very much alive. That lamb is Jesus, the “lamb of God” (see the first chapter of the John’s Gospel). He appears as a slain-but-living lamb, because he was crucified but resurrected, still bearing the signs of his death: the wounds in his side, hands, and feet. I would not say “Jesus is bleeding”, because of the way it sounds, and the images it might induce; rather, I would say that the Eucharist shows the death that Jesus suffered for us, but in the unbloody signs of (broken) bread and (poured out) wine.

(By the way, this distinction between “bloody” and “unbloody” is one that has been used for centuries to describe the difference in manner and appearance between the Crucifixion and the Eucharist.)
The body is dipped into the blood – bread dipped into the wine --] and turned into the body and blood of Jesus in one and is set upon the linen which resembles his burial cloth. When it is broken in two it represents Jesus being broken on the cross.
There is a part of the Mass where the priest takes the consecrated Host and breaks it into smaller pieces – this is called the Fraction Rite, because he is fracturing (breaking) the Host. This act represents several things, one of which is the injuries suffered in Christ’s body during his Passion.

At this point, the priest takes a small portion of the Host and places it into the Chalice; he mingles the consecrated bread (which visually represents the Body) with the consecration wine (which visually represents the Blood). This represents the resurrection, the reunion of Christ’s body and blood in his resurrected, glorified self. This is because the bread and the wine are consecrated separately, representing the separation of his blood from his body – his death. They are reunited in the Chalice (hidden from view, as was the resurrection).

The linen on the altar that is used during the Liturgy of the Eucharist is said to represent the burial cloth, yes. It is, in fact, called a “corporal”. In the older form of the Roman Rite (i.e. what was celebrated before Vatican II) the consecrated Host would be placed directly onto the corporal; nowadays the Host stays on a plate called a paten. But that was why the cloth was called a “corporal” – because upon it rested the Body (corpus) of Christ.
Jesus is part of the Trinity, so God is now lying on the burial cloth on the table for us to consume later.
That’s a rather blunt way of describing it; perhaps I just shy away from bluntness when talking about the Eucharist…

God is present in the Eucharist, so yes, insofar as the Eucharist is “lying there” on the “burial cloth”, “waiting” for us to “consume” it, God is too. But that language is too strong on the physical / local / material senses of presence. I would say, rather, that God is present on the altar in the Eucharist, inviting us to come and receive Him.
We sacrifice God to God so so we can be forgiven of our sins by God.
Another blunt saying. 😉 We offer God the only sacrifice that can truly be worthy of God: Himself. He knows! He’s already made the sacrifice! We’re there uniting ourselves to it, so that we are partakers not only in receiving the sacrifice as food, but also as partakers in offering ourselves with Jesus.
 
JRKH, thank you for the analogy. It was clear enough for me to get what you were saying.
Glad the analogy was of some help.
I think the hard part for me is the idea of God being on this earth. Whether it be walking or at a sacrifice
Interesting…Maybe it’s just because I was raised Catholic, but I have no problem with this. In fact I have more of a problem with the idea of God NOT being on earth…🙂

Peace
James
 
Jesus is in Heaven, yes. To say “we are sacrificing him for our sins” is a pretty tricky phrase. I would say, rather, that Jesus has already sacrificed himself for us, and that we are participating in that once-for-all sacrifice by re-presenting it, under the forms/appearances of bread and wine. Look at it this way: Jesus offered himself in a bloody manner on the cross, but he also offered himself in an unbloody manner the night before, to his disciples, under the appearances of bread and wine. So we too, today, are offering Jesus to the Father under the appearances of bread and wine. It is not a NEW sacrifice, or ANOTHER sacrifice, but the same sacrifice made present again.

As for “he is bleeding in heaven”, that is again a rather tricky phrase. Perhaps the priest was alluding to the image that the apostle John saw, recorded in the book of Revelation: he saw, in Heaven, an altar, and on the altar a lamb stood, looking as though it had been slain, but the lamb was very much alive. That lamb is Jesus, the “lamb of God” (see the first chapter of the John’s Gospel). He appears as a slain-but-living lamb, because he was crucified but resurrected, still bearing the signs of his death: the wounds in his side, hands, and feet. I would not say “Jesus is bleeding”, because of the way it sounds, and the images it might induce; rather, I would say that the Eucharist shows the death that Jesus suffered for us, but in the unbloody signs of (broken) bread and (poured out) wine.

(By the way, this distinction between “bloody” and “unbloody” is one that has been used for centuries to describe the difference in manner and appearance between the Crucifixion and the Eucharist.)

There is a part of the Mass where the priest takes the consecrated Host and breaks it into smaller pieces – this is called the Fraction Rite, because he is fracturing (breaking) the Host. This act represents several things, one of which is the injuries suffered in Christ’s body during his Passion.

At this point, the priest takes a small portion of the Host and places it into the Chalice; he mingles the consecrated bread (which visually represents the Body) with the consecration wine (which visually represents the Blood). This represents the resurrection, the reunion of Christ’s body and blood in his resurrected, glorified self. This is because the bread and the wine are consecrated separately, representing the separation of his blood from his body – his death. They are reunited in the Chalice (hidden from view, as was the resurrection).

The linen on the altar that is used during the Liturgy of the Eucharist is said to represent the burial cloth, yes. It is, in fact, called a “corporal”. In the older form of the Roman Rite (i.e. what was celebrated before Vatican II) the consecrated Host would be placed directly onto the corporal; nowadays the Host stays on a plate called a paten. But that was why the cloth was called a “corporal” – because upon it rested the Body (corpus) of Christ.

That’s a rather blunt way of describing it; perhaps I just shy away from bluntness when talking about the Eucharist…

God is present in the Eucharist, so yes, insofar as the Eucharist is “lying there” on the “burial cloth”, “waiting” for us to “consume” it, God is too. But that language is too strong on the physical / local / material senses of presence. I would say, rather, that God is present on the altar in the Eucharist, inviting us to come and receive Him.

Another blunt saying. 😉 We offer God the only sacrifice that can truly be worthy of God: Himself. He knows! He’s already made the sacrifice! We’re there uniting ourselves to it, so that we are partakers not only in receiving the sacrifice as food, but also as partakers in offering ourselves with Jesus.
Very educational post. Thanks.
 
Hello, and I apologize if I am posting this in the wrong section. I just had an extremely awkward and confusing RCIA class and I’m trying to wrap my mind around it.

From my understanding via the Priest:

Jesus is in heaven and we are sacrificing him for our sins. During the Eucharist he is bleeding in heaven.

The body is dipped into the blood and turned into the body and blood of Jesus in one and is set upon the linen which resembles his burial cloth. When it is broken in two it represents Jesus being broken on the cross.

Jesus is part of the Trinity, so God is now lying on the burial cloth on the table for us to consume later.

We sacrifice God to God so so we can be forgiven of our sins by God.

I can honestly say I cannot wrap my mind around that idea. I don’t mean any offense by this post, so please don’t take it that way.
I hope something was lost in the translation. That’s about the worst explanation I’ve ever heard.

See the attachments for a much better (IMHO) explanation.

Also, note that “mystery” doesn’t mean unexplainable or “just accept it, it doesn’t make sense”.

Something is a mystery when it cannot be **fully **comprehended due to its infinite nature-- for example, the Trinity. It’s explainable, but because it’s infinite and we are finite it is not fully understandable or explainable.
As a RCIA catechist for a number of years (and currently the interim co-ordinator) I fully realize how difficult it is to treat such a sublime topic as the Eucharist in the space of an hour or so, especially in a group setting with a wide diversity in age and religious background. However, I have to agree with 1KE. The presentation as you described it leaves very much to be desired. In fact, I shuddered as I was reading.

Rather than my attempting to address it here, let me simply encourage you to continue to read prayerfully on your own, using sources that have been suggested here and others. I would recommend that you get a copy of the United States Catholic Catechism for Adults, if you don’t already have it, and reflect especially on Chapter 17. It’s a fairly easy read of only twenty pages and, in my opinion, does an excellent job of explaining as it’s titled, The Eucharist: Source and Summit of Christian Life.
 
Made a small bit of progress I guess. Still a lot more to sift through. Today I was reading the Book of John with my grandfather. I feel like something clicked. I can’t explain it, but I really don’t feel like this particular issue is a problem anymore.
 
Made a small bit of progress I guess. Still a lot more to sift through. Today I was reading the Book of John with my grandfather. I feel like something clicked. I can’t explain it, but I really don’t feel like this particular issue is a problem anymore.
👍
 
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