Don't want to make waves but

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jaygo

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…I clearly am. I appear to be a lone traditionalist in a modernist parish.

Our new priest, trained in tradition, overheard me commenting to my boys how I would love to kneel for Communion. He took this to the Pastor who permitted a kneeler to be set out for those who wished to kneel for Communion. Although it appeared many used it, the outcry was so great by a some that it was removed. Then after a few weeks, our Pastor permitted the first pew could be used for those wishing to kneel. In this, My children and I are now the only ones kneeling for Communion and now people have started using the first pew for sitting in. (There was no announcement to the whole parish, nothing in the bulletin, no sign upon that pew regarding the option available.)

I also was involved with getting 1st Sat Masses set up in Traditional Latin and they have appeared to be a dismal failure. In fact this June will be probably be the end of it. So more of a bother to this Pastor who has gone out of his way to appease me in my traditionalist beliefs.

My dilemma is that I only want, and teach my children, to worship in the traditional ways to which I more and more find myself drawn. But, I do not, never have, desired to disrupt or create trouble within the Parish or for our Pastor. But I feel that I am doing just that and am trying the Pastor’s patience beyond reason. Also that I am offending my fellow parishioners by not respecting their ‘local customs.’

But I feel led to worship in the old ways…
What am I to do…
 
What are you to do?

There is more to tradition than external observances.

Remember that humility, charity, forbearance, and patience are traditional, too.
 
So long as your children understand the external acts and are taught to receive Jesus reverantly, I see no problem with teaching them traditional things such as kneeling for Communion.
 
jaygo said:
…I clearly am. I appear to be a lone traditionalist in a modernist parish.

Our new priest, trained in tradition, overheard me commenting to my boys how I would love to kneel for Communion. He took this to the Pastor who permitted a kneeler to be set out for those who wished to kneel for Communion. Although it appeared many used it, the outcry was so great by a some that it was removed. Then after a few weeks, our Pastor permitted the first pew could be used for those wishing to kneel. In this, My children and I are now the only ones kneeling for Communion and now people have started using the first pew for sitting in. (There was no announcement to the whole parish, nothing in the bulletin, no sign upon that pew regarding the option available.)

I also was involved with getting 1st Sat Masses set up in Traditional Latin and they have appeared to be a dismal failure. In fact this June will be probably be the end of it. So more of a bother to this Pastor who has gone out of his way to appease me in my traditionalist beliefs.

My dilemma is that I only want, and teach my children, to worship in the traditional ways to which I more and more find myself drawn. But, I do not, never have, desired to disrupt or create trouble within the Parish or for our Pastor. But I feel that I am doing just that and am trying the Pastor’s patience beyond reason. Also that I am offending my fellow parishioners by not respecting their ‘local customs.’

But I feel led to worship in the old ways…
What am I to do…
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Jaygo,
It is not YOU who is making waves, but those who denounce as evil all the traditional practices.

Keep up the fight.

If possible, find some way to advertise the TLM your priest says. Be it diocesan newspaper classified, local paper classifieds, or word-of-mouth.
 
jaygo said:
…I clearly am. I appear to be a lone traditionalist in a modernist parish.

Our new priest, trained in tradition, overheard me commenting to my boys how I would love to kneel for Communion. He took this to the Pastor who permitted a kneeler to be set out for those who wished to kneel for Communion. Although it appeared many used it, the outcry was so great by a some that it was removed. Then after a few weeks, our Pastor permitted the first pew could be used for those wishing to kneel. In this, My children and I are now the only ones kneeling for Communion and now people have started using the first pew for sitting in. (There was no announcement to the whole parish, nothing in the bulletin, no sign upon that pew regarding the option available.)

I also was involved with getting 1st Sat Masses set up in Traditional Latin and they have appeared to be a dismal failure. In fact this June will be probably be the end of it. So more of a bother to this Pastor who has gone out of his way to appease me in my traditionalist beliefs.

My dilemma is that I only want, and teach my children, to worship in the traditional ways to which I more and more find myself drawn. But, I do not, never have, desired to disrupt or create trouble within the Parish or for our Pastor. But I feel that I am doing just that and am trying the Pastor’s patience beyond reason. Also that I am offending my fellow parishioners by not respecting their ‘local customs.’

But I feel led to worship in the old ways…
What am I to do…
Click to expand...
Trying to require everyone else to do what makes the majority comfortable may be common everywhere, but let us hope it has not become a custom. We are capable of greater catholicity than that.

You could offer to pay for one of those markers to be put on the front pews, something that reads something like: “Reserved for those for whom walking is difficult and those who wish to receive Holy Communion kneeling.” In the second pews, a similar sign might read: “Please leave the aisle seats on this pew open for those for whom walking is difficult.” I am thinking of signage similar to that used in some parishes to reserve seats in a certain section for the choir or the lectors.

I also don’t see why the pastor would see you in particular as the one who tries his patience, either. If he has not said that, but rather seems exasperated with the situation in general, try to hang in there. Let him know you appreciate his efforts on your behalf, and that you would not ask him to bother if you did not find this sign of reverence so edifying. Pastors need encouragement, too, as they often hear the complaints more than the appreciation. Keep in mind you may be like a patron in a restaurant where no one else tips. Give him as much gratitude as you have to offer, for all he does.

Otherwise, just get used to the idea that getting to Mass very early is the price you have to pay to receive on your knees. That would not be such a big sacrifice, would it?

As for the TLM, thank your pastor all over the place for trying, ask if he knows any other parishes in the area that offer it, and be sure to take him out for dinner, offer to watch his dog when he goes out of town, or do something else nice for him for all he has been willing to do for you. Little things like that can go a long way.
 
Spirithound said:
I’m guessing those who made a fuss over the kneeler being put out for Communion.
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I don’t think that such sweeping accusations should be made on the basis of a guess. It is unjust.

Personally, I can see the sense of having a bench reserved or a kneeler provided, although imo, a bench would be far better as then the disabled could use it for actually during the service if they wished.

But can it not be possible that those who object to a kneeler are genuinely concerned about divisiveness in the congregation? Or concerned about a bit of showmanship, or ‘holier than thou’?

Why impute to them such a daft belief as ‘traditions are evil’? Can’t you give them credit for good intentions (as we are bidden to do) rather than jumping to conclusions?
 
paperwight said:
I don’t think that such sweeping accusations should be made on the basis of a guess.
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Although it appeared many used it, the outcry was so great by a some that it was removed.
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How is that anything but denouncing traditional practice!?

HECK! It’s not even traditional practice, it’s the NORM for the ENTIRE CATHOLIC CHURCH.
 
OraProNobisIHM said:
How is that anything but denouncing traditional practice!?

HECK! It’s not even traditional practice, it’s the NORM for the ENTIRE CATHOLIC CHURCH.
Click to expand...
It’s not denouncing, it’s a safety precaution. People could trip over the kneeler, for example.

Do not confuse the kneeler with the norm of kneeling for Holy Communion. The one is for the norm, the other is the norm itself.

Using the first pews for kneeling is a common practice - much more common than most Tradionalists will have you think.
 
Eucharisted said:
It’s not denouncing, it’s a safety precaution. People could trip over the kneeler, for example.

Do not confuse the kneeler with the norm of kneeling for Holy Communion. The one is for the norm, the other is the norm itself.

Using the first pews for kneeling is a common practice - much more common than most Tradionalists will have you think.
Click to expand...
You’re kidding me. “Trip over the kneeler”!? Maybe if they’re blind! It would be highly irresponsible for someone to trip over a kneeler. That is a very weak argument.

And, I’m not confusing the norm. If anything, a kneeler helps people receive. Especially old people, and people with weak legs, who need something to help them down and up.

And the first pew is used at Daily Mass for the FSSP in my area, so I have no problem with it. It’s a bit awkward at times, but w/e.
 
paperwight said:
But can it not be possible that those who object to a kneeler are genuinely concerned about divisiveness in the congregation? Or concerned about a bit of showmanship, or ‘holier than thou’?

Why impute to them such a daft belief as ‘traditions are evil’? Can’t you give them credit for good intentions (as we are bidden to do) rather than jumping to conclusions?
Click to expand...
🤷 this wasn’t actually my complaint. Perhaps they don’t think that traditions are evil; but they’re still mistaken in being concerned about divisiveness. Adherence to the norm trumps adherence to the rest of the congregation.
 
I dont see why you can not explain to your priest your desires and yearning for the traditional mass. maybe if you acknowledge it isnt working there at your parish and thank him for his efforts, father can help you find another parish that is saying the tridentine mass.

i would call around convents and hospitals also for the tridentine mass. sometimes a priest says the tridentine mass and doesnt have permission from the bishop to advertise it. i found the tridentine mass at our local hospital.
 
paperwight said:
I don’t think that such sweeping accusations should be made on the basis of a guess. It is unjust.

Personally, I can see the sense of having a bench reserved or a kneeler provided, although imo, a bench would be far better as then the disabled could use it for actually during the service if they wished.

But can it not be possible that those who object to a kneeler are genuinely concerned about divisiveness in the congregation? Or concerned about a bit of showmanship, or ‘holier than thou’?

Why impute to them such a daft belief as ‘traditions are evil’? Can’t you give them credit for good intentions (as we are bidden to do) rather than jumping to conclusions?
Click to expand...
I presume this is at me.

What credit for good intentions? Why?
Although it appeared many used it, the outcry was so great by a some that it was removed.
Click to expand...
Based on the outcry, I can’t believe it’s over safety.

And, why would it be “holier than thou”? We’ve got 1960 years worth of Catholics who knelt to receive Communion.
 
EasterJoy said:
Trying to require everyone else to do what makes the majority comfortable may be common everywhere, but let us hope it has not become a custom. We are capable of greater catholicity than that.

You could offer to pay for one of those markers to be put on the front pews, something that reads something like: “Reserved for those for whom walking is difficult and those who wish to receive Holy Communion kneeling.” In the second pews, a similar sign might read: “Please leave the aisle seats on this pew open for those for whom walking is difficult.”

What a good idea. Perhaps then others, who may be shy and unknowing to what’s going on (remember the Pastor announced this only once) will use this beautiful gift that our Pastor has given us.
Click to expand...
 
Spirithound said:
🤷 this wasn’t actually my complaint. Perhaps they don’t think that traditions are evil; but they’re still mistaken in being concerned about divisiveness. Adherence to the norm trumps adherence to the rest of the congregation.
Click to expand...
Do I understand this correctly, kneeling is the ‘norm’? Even though we attend a NO Mass?
 
Why do you need a kneeler to kneel? Many in our Parish kneel to receive on the floor. I understand this could be difficult for the elderly who may need something to lean on to go down and get up but it shouldn’t be a problem for the kids.
 
OraProNobisIHM said:
Jaygo,
It is not YOU who is making waves, but those who denounce as evil all the traditional practices.

Keep up the fight.

If possible, find some way to advertise the TLM your priest says. Be it diocesan newspaper classified, local paper classifieds, or word-of-mouth.
Click to expand...
We were advised not to put it in the diocesan newspaper, so I doubt that Father would approve of an ad in the local newspaper. I will beef up my efforts to spread it by word of mouth.
 
OraProNobisIHM said:
How is that anything but denouncing traditional practice!?

HECK! It’s not even traditional practice, it’s the NORM for the ENTIRE CATHOLIC CHURCH.
Click to expand...
No, it is only the norm in the Roman Church… ok, that’s 98% of the Holy Catholic Church united under the Pope of Rome, but the Eastern Catholic Churches traditionally (since the 300’s) receive standing; the Armenians traditionally receive in the hand, and under both species!
 
weepixie71 said:
I dont see why you can not explain to your priest your desires and yearning for the traditional mass. maybe if you acknowledge it isnt working there at your parish and thank him for his efforts, father can help you find another parish that is saying the tridentine mass.

i would call around convents and hospitals also for the tridentine mass. sometimes a priest says the tridentine mass and doesnt have permission from the bishop to advertise it. i found the tridentine mass at our local hospital.
Click to expand...
There is only on tridentine Mass but its located in a place where I cannot go.

If the Mass does not have the permission from the bishop, is it in obedience to Holy Father?
 
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