Don't you think protestants are following Jesus Christ?

[SuperLuigi]

Well Catholics, what does the Church say about this? A protestant asked me this when I told him “I feel God has called me to follow Jesus Christ into the Catholic Church.”

What is a good catholic response to this question?

Catholics are about following the conscience.

Of course, that has to be a well-formed conscience, because God sees through all excuse-making even better than I do!

So I think it would be inaccurate and disingenuous to say Protestants are not Christian, since they follow Christ–or at least try to.

I also say this because I wouldn’t want Protestants to tell me that I am not a Christian, which has happened before…

 

[rcwitness]

Looking this all over it seems to me that your last sentence here contradicts the first sentence you gave in post #13? .

Ok, I’ll try to explain.

Btw, I am specifically NOT saying that Jesus does not gather people to Himself through these communities.

Here’s one statement

I believe they are not being led to that conclusion by God.

Here’s the other, from post 13

In terms of being P or C and having personal levels of following Jesus within those realms, how would you feel about a P that with strong conviction feels God has planted them where He wants them to be?

Here is the direct question you asked. My reply is the post 13 answer.

When the Reformation caused a division in the faith, it caused a division in the Body. This is mirrored by the reality that His Eucharist was no longer the One Bread that all partake of. Yet from the beginning, Jesus gave His one Bread. This is the sign of Unity for the Church.

Protestants, who came out from the Reformation did not retain His One Eucharist or Unity of faith which His Eucharist esures.

Remember when Jesus gave the discourse on the Bread of Life? He gave this Teaching to separate those who believed from those who did not. Both were following Him. But He used His Sacrificial offering as the means to keep those who would remain with Him.

Now, I’m not saying that the circumstance with P’s and Cats today is the same as the followers when Jesus gave His Teaching. Those who did not stay with Him, then, did not believe (save Judas, who stayed for personal gain, yet was lost). But there is a lesson that still applies. Those who wish to stay, or remain following Jesus, must do so by eating His Body and Blood. This is our nourishment source during our journey in the wilderness. The Jews began testing Jesus with a demand for a sign. They said Moses gave them Manna in the wilderness after their liberation from slavery.

So, when I say Christians can be and are often called to belief and Baptism through communities that are not in full Communion with His Church, I am not implying that I believe Jesus is compelling them to remain without His Eucharist. Christian do not become Christians by eating His Eucharist. They devote to Jesus by eating His Eucharist, after they have been set free from slavery to sin.

 

[Wannano]

Ok, I’ll try to explain.

Here’s one statement

Here’s the other, from post 13

Here is the direct question you asked. My reply is the post 13 answer.

When the Reformation caused a division in the faith, it caused a division in the Body. This is mirrored by the reality that His Eucharist was no longer the One Bread that all partake of. Yet from the beginning, Jesus gave His one Bread. This is the sign of Unity for the Church.

Protestants, who came out from the Reformation did not retain His One Eucharist or Unity of faith which His Eucharist esures.

Remember when Jesus gave the discourse on the Bread of Life? He gave this Teaching to separate those who believed from those who did not. Both were following Him. But He used His Sacrificial offering as the means to keep those who would remain with Him.

Now, I’m not saying that the circumstance with P’s and Cats today is the same as the followers when Jesus gave His Teaching. Those who did not stay with Him, then, did not believe (save Judas, who stayed for personal gain, yet was lost). But there is a lesson that still applies. Those who wish to stay, or remain following Jesus, must do so by eating His Body and Blood. This is our nourishment source during our journey in the wilderness. The Jews began testing Jesus with a demand for a sign. They said Moses gave them Manna in the wilderness after their liberation from slavery.

So, when I say Christians can be and are often called to belief and Baptism through communities that are not in full Communion with His Church, I am not implying that I believe Jesus is compelling them to remain without His Eucharist. Christian do not become Christians by eating His Eucharist. They devote to Jesus by eating His Eucharist, after they have been set free from slavery to sin.

Hi Rc, I hope you don’t feel like I am picking on you. Neither do I feel I am nit picking. I am trying to put what I see together in my mind. Thanks for your patience.

Your statement “I am specifically NOT saying Jesus does not gather people to Himself through these communities” is a double negative. The statement says to me “I am saying Jesus does gather people to Himself through these communities.” Am I understanding you rightly? Based on my understanding of what you really are saying I then have trouble when you say that you do not believe a P would be led by God to have the conviction that God has planted him where He wants him to be.

 

[rcwitness]

Hi Rc, I hope you don’t feel like I am picking on you. Neither do I feel I am nit picking. I am trying to put what I see together in my mind. Thanks for your patience.

Your statement “I am specifically NOT saying Jesus does not gather people to Himself through these communities” is a double negative. The statement says to me “I am saying Jesus does gather people to Himself through these communities.” Am I understanding you rightly? Based on my understanding of what you really are saying I then have trouble when you say that you do not believe a P would be led by God to have the conviction that God has planted him where He wants him to be.

No worries at all! I’m happy to discuss and even be corrected on something I wrongly portray.

Yes, that was a double negative. Probably not the best way to write.

The thing I’m getting at, is that yes, these separated (from full communion) communities are able to initiate believers through the core Gospel message and faith that leads to Baptism. But there is more to following Jesus than these fundamental initiations. Not that they become obsolete, but that they is His Eucharist, which if we allow Him, is able to keep the whole body One in judgement and faith. This is why the Church recognizes saving faith within communities which do not partake of His Eucharist. The fact that they do not partake of His One Eucharist is not through their fault. It is the consequence of the “men of the Reformation”. And there were Catholic men and Protestant men to blame for this.

And the Spirit of these facticious men is still around today. But genuine believers exist in both Protestant and Catholic Communities. The difference is that the Catholic community retained the Eucharist and this is always where Jesus calls believers to gather to.

 

[Wannano]

No worries at all! I’m happy to discuss and even be corrected on something I wrongly portray.

Yes, that was a double negative. Probably not the best way to write.

The thing I’m getting at, is that yes, these separated (from full communion) communities are able to initiate believers through the core Gospel message and faith that leads to Baptism. But there is more to following Jesus than these fundamental initiations. Not that they become obsolete, but that they is His Eucharist, which if we allow Him, is able to keep the whole body One in judgement and faith. This is why the Church recognizes saving faith within communities which do not partake of His Eucharist. The fact that they do not partake of His One Eucharist is not through their fault. It is the consequence of the “men of the Reformation”. And there were Catholic men and Protestant men to blame for this.

And the Spirit of these facticious men is still around today. But genuine believers exist in both Protestant and Catholic Communities. The difference is that the Catholic community retained the Eucharist and this is always where Jesus calls believers to gather to.

Thank you so much Rc, your reply is about as charitable as I have ever seen. I think I will print it off and have it for visible reference when discussing things with fellow P’s.

 

[StevenFrancis]

Well Catholics, what does the Church say about this? A protestant asked me this when I told him “I feel God has called me to follow Jesus Christ into the Catholic Church.”

What is a good catholic response to this question?

It’s an individual question. It can’t refer to “Protestants” any more than it can refer “Catholics”.

Jesus Christ established a Church. Only the Eastern Orthodox and Catholics can trace their Churches back to Jesus Christ and His apostles.

Only the Catholic Church can claim the fullness of the Christian faith.

The word Protestant literally means that the denomination who carry that label are in protest with the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church.

Having said that…Christian faith is a grace and a gift. The faith is carried to the person who receives it, by the Holy Spirit. There are millions of Protestants who have not been properly catechized, and are in the religion of their parents, grandparents, etc.

Same for many Catholics. But one thing is clear…our walk with Christ is an individual one. It can, and should be shared with others who are on their own walks as well. No Catholic or Protestant in the 21st century has any business telling each other that they are not following Christ, because at the level of the individual, they most certainly may be.

We Catholics who are in full communion with the Church, and the papacy, and apostolic succession, and live accordingly, are blessed and graced in the full abundances of deposit of faith. But the Church struggles also with millions of improperly catechized individual members, who, though they love Christ, are likely not “following” any more than a protestant who is just in the faith of their fathers, and not seeking the fullness of the faith. When a well catechized Catholic is on fire for Christ, it’s a beautiful thing. When speaking with separated brothers and sisters in Christ, (who by the way may also be on fire for Christ. I’ve seen it plenty.), we must keep this important part of Christ’s Gospel in mind:

Matt 7:1 Do not judge others, or you yourselves will be judged. 2 As you have judged, so you will be judged, by the same rule; award shall be made you as you have made award, in the same measure. 3 How is it that thou canst see the speck of dust which is in thy brother’s eye, and art not aware of the beam which is in thy own? 4 By what right wilt thou say to thy brother, Wait, let me rid thy eye of that speck, when there is a beam all the while in thy own? 5 Thou hypocrite, take the beam out of thy own eye first, and so thou shalt have clear sight to rid thy brother’s of the speck.

 

[Della]

Peter J

If its any consolation I got the grasp of what you were saying, there were no muddied waters.

Speaking of waters, protestantism is a great stepping stone through the Tiber.

That might sound like a plug, but it addresses my understanding of the situation.

It was for me too, although in a roundabout way. I went from being a faithful, quiet Episcopalian to a hardcase Pentecostalist who button-holed strangers on buses, back to Episcopalian and then into the Catholic Church. :whacky:

 

[rcwitness]

Thank you so much Rc, your reply is about as charitable as I have ever seen. I think I will print it off and have it for visible reference when discussing things with fellow P’s.

:tiphat: Nice! Just correct that typo where I said, “…but that they is His Eucharist.” to “…but that there is His Eucharist.”

Colossians 2

Christ, in whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.
… For in him the whole fulness of deity dwells bodily, and you have come to fulness of life in him, who is the head of all rule and authority.