DOUBLE annulment question

[Boston]

Nobody likes a long tale, so let’s see what you think of this:

I’m a bad Catholic, married twice outside of the Church, at relatively young ages (22 and 26) with non-Catholics:

Marriage 1- In a court, not consummated. Civil divorce completed.
Marriage 2- In a court, consummated but with no intent of having kids (wife encouraged me to get a vasectomy). Civil divorce completed.

I’ve taken the sins both marriages and the vasectomy to the confessional already. For the sake of argument, let’s say the vasectomy has been reversed.

I don’t intend on getting married at this point in time (no Catholic women available at my age), but just in case, I would like to have all my ducks in a row. What do I do about annulments? I would prefer neither ex-wife were contacted, especially the first. Do I have to bother with annulments at all, or would these just be wiped away during pre-marital counseling?

 

[ValPal]

Nobody likes a long tale, so let’s see what you think of this:

I’m a bad Catholic, married twice outside of the Church,

If you were married outside the Church in both cases, and assuming you didn’t have the appropriate dispensations (which you would have had to actively seek out), neither marriage is considered valid. T

I don’t intend on getting married at this point in time (no Catholic women available at my age), but just in case, I would like to have all my ducks in a row. What do I do about annulments? I would prefer neither ex-wife were contacted, especially the first. Do I have to bother with annulments at all, or would these just be wiped away during pre-marital counseling?

You are dealing with what is referred to as a “lack of form” case. I understand that these cases are very straightforward. I am not familiar with the details, such as if the spouses are contacted. Spouses are typically contacted by the Tribunal with regard to annulments, but in “lack of form” cases, I don’t see any reason to contact the former spouse.

 

[Phemie]

If you were married outside the Church in both cases, and assuming you didn’t have the appropriate dispensations (which you would have had to actively seek out), neither marriage is considered valid. T

You are dealing with what is referred to as a “lack of form” case. I understand that these cases are very straightforward. I am not familiar with the details, such as if the spouses are contacted. Spouses are typically contacted by the Tribunal with regard to annulments, but in “lack of form” cases, I don’t see any reason to contact the former spouse.

ValPal is correct, unless you sought a dispensation to marry outside the Church, your 2 marriages are not presumed valid.

Get a new Certificate of Baptism. If there is no marriage recorded the Church presumes you are free to marry.

Should the time come when you wish to marry in the Church, you will again need a new Certificate of Baptism. If it shows no marriage, you present it, your Certificates of Marriage showing where you were married and who the officiant was and your Decrees of Divorce. Depending on the Diocese, these will be dealt with by the priest preparing you or the documents will be submitted to the Marriage Tribunal as ‘lack of form’ cases and dealt with at that level. Again depending on the Diocese and how busy their Tribunal is, this can take a few weeks to a few months to be dealt with.

 

[edwest2]

Nobody likes a long tale, so let’s see what you think of this:

I’m a bad Catholic, married twice outside of the Church, at relatively young ages (22 and 26) with non-Catholics:

Marriage 1- In a court, not consummated. Civil divorce completed.
Marriage 2- In a court, consummated but with no intent of having kids (wife encouraged me to get a vasectomy). Civil divorce completed.

I’ve taken the sins both marriages and the vasectomy to the confessional already. For the sake of argument, let’s say the vasectomy has been reversed.

I don’t intend on getting married at this point in time (no Catholic women available at my age), but just in case, I would like to have all my ducks in a row. What do I do about annulments? I would prefer neither ex-wife were contacted, especially the first. Do I have to bother with annulments at all, or would these just be wiped away during pre-marital counseling?

Definitely talk to a priest.

Peace,
Ed

 

[Joe_5859]

Ed is right. Talking to a priest is your best next step.

From what you have described, your previous two marriages appear to be more simple “lack of form” cases rather than something that would require full-blown annulment proceedings. But it is still necessary to get it all sorted out with the Church. Your priest will know who needs to be contacted and what forms you might need to fill out to get the ball rolling.

God bless!

 

[tundramom]

WAIT!!! Do not accept these answers. You may still have to go through an annulment.

I was not even Catholic yet… still a Mormon with NO intentions of converting. Divorced from first husband who was also Mormon… Engaged to now hubby and had to go through with an annulment. Thankfully everything went well and we were allowed to be married. Talk about lack of form? There is no lackier of form than a Mormon wedding in the back yard of my ex-in-laws.

Talk to a priest for sure!

Steph

 

[thewanderer]

WAIT!!! Do not accept these answers. You may still have to go through an annulment.

I was not even Catholic yet… still a Mormon with NO intentions of converting. Divorced from first husband who was also Mormon… Engaged to now hubby and had to go through with an annulment. Thankfully everything went well and we were allowed to be married. Talk about lack of form? There is no lackier of form than a Mormon wedding in the back yard of my ex-in-laws.

Talk to a priest for sure!

Steph

The reason for that is precisely because you weren’t yet Catholic. The Church places stricter requirements on Catholics for marriage. Someone who has been baptized a Catholic cannot marry validly outside of the Catholic Church without special dispensation from their bishop. So long as the OP was a baptized Catholic (whether practicing or not) at the time of these marriages and he did not get a special dispensation to marry then this is a simple lack of form case. From the OP it sounded as though both of these requirements were in place, although it is probably good to explain this all explicitly. In your case the problem was that the Church assumes that marriages between non-Catholics are valid unless they have a specific reason not to. The Church does not place requirements of form on a marriage between two non-Catholics the way that it does on someone who is baptized a Catholic. I hope that helps clear things up.

 

[Boston]

Wow, great info from everyone!

Follow-up question: what sort of fees am I probably looking at for 2 declarations of lack of form?

 

[ValPal]

Wow, great info from everyone!

Follow-up question: what sort of fees am I probably looking at for 2 declarations of lack of form?

That will likely vary very significantly from area to area. I would assume that it wouldn’t be that expensive given that you won’t need a full-blown investigation. Talk to your pastor for details.

 

[Joe_5859]

Yeah, the fee varies from diocese to diocese, so it’s hard to ballpark it. But also note that no one is ever turned away for inability to pay.

I’m not sure how it works for lack of form cases, but for regular annulment cases, a person can petition in either the diocese where the wedding took place or the diocese where they currently reside. Smaller dioceses are generally going to be less expensive than larger (arch)dioceses.

 

[tundramom]

thewanderer,
thank you for your information! I’m just so glad I did it. When I was welcomed home five years into our marriage I knew that my Marriage was valid. So happy to be a Catholic now and SO glad to be in a valid marriage with a man of God. His example helped guide me, and 18 years later we are still happily married and plan to stay that way.

Steph

 

[thewanderer]

thewanderer,
thank you for your information! I’m just so glad I did it. When I was welcomed home five years into our marriage I knew that my Marriage was valid. So happy to be a Catholic now and SO glad to be in a valid marriage with a man of God. His example helped guide me, and 18 years later we are still happily married and plan to stay that way.

Steph

I’m glad it was helpful. And congratulations on your marriage!!

 

[Phemie]

Wow, great info from everyone!

Follow-up question: what sort of fees am I probably looking at for 2 declarations of lack of form?

I don’t know that there would be a charge for this. There isn’t in my diocese, unlike an annulment for which the fee was $500 last time I checked two years ago (it was $750 at the Archdiocese).

But then, you have to think of an annulment as a trial, with the prosecution (the person arguing that the marriage is invalid) and the defense (the Defender of the Bond arguing that the marriage is valid), arguments presented back and forth, several people involved, lots of evidence to present and to go through, etc.

A ‘lack of form’ case is basically someone looking at three (or in your case 5) documents and saying “He didn’t follow the rules so he’s free to marry.” In my diocese that was sometimes done by the priest preparing the couple for their wedding and not submitted to the Tribunal.

 

[1ke]

also, since no one else has addressed it, the Church does not require vasectomy reversal. You have confessed, that is all you need to do. Sterility is not an impediment to marriage, so you could in fact marry in the church in the future.