Doubting Catholicism

[Madaglan]

**I need to rephrase; Are they saying you need to show the sign of “Speaking in tongues” as proof that the individual has received the Holy Spirit?

I have never met anyone that speaks in tongues according to the biblical model as seen during the Apostolic era.**

No. Many Pentecostal and Charismatic Christians claim to speak in tongues. The tongues they speak, however, most often do not sound like a known spoken language.

In some cases, among the saints, a person will say something in one language and be heard in a different language, the language of the listener.

 

[AliciaCL]

Read The Lord’s Supper by Scott Hahn and ruminate on it.

 

[katielyn05]

I think your bored because your use to it. I went to an Evangelical church for years that every sunday had laser light shows, an awesome rock band, a giant mosh pit- I would scream and dance til I couldn’t anymore- everyone did. But it was so easy to stop thinking about…anything really. Senses overstimulated, wondering if that cute boy over there noticed you or where your friend wandering off to in the mosh pit, or how your going to another cool concert later and it becomes so in the norm for you to do church that way that it is equally as boring as you find mass is. But your use to mass and not the other one. I found mass more involving and moving and thought provoking for the same reason. So many decorations (our church was always dark- there were none).

 

[SacredHeartFan]

Surely you realize the Mass and the Last Supper are one and the same. Can you imagine one of the disciples at the Last Supper saying, “Well, this is boring. Don’t you want us to be happy and have fun?”

I can’t imagine receiving our Lord–Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity–in the Eucharist and then telling Him that’s not enough for me. I can’t imagine telling Him I’d rather have rock and roll, excitement, and fun than receive His Majesty and Divinity into my body. I can’t imagine telling Jesus the Church He founded isn’t good enough for me, that a church founded by another man is better than the one He gave us. I can’t imagine telling God that instead of the Fullness of Truth I prefer entertainment and fellowship.

You’re talking about trading the greatest, most precious thing in the world for something rather superficial.

Why can’t we have both??

 

[Kay_Cee]

Why can’t we have both??

We can–so why don’t you do something about it at your parish?

But I would never in a million million years leave the Eucharist for something else, anything else.

 

[SacredHeartFan]

Hello SHF;

It sounds to me like you are at a plateau in your personal spiritual life. A personal relationship with Jesus Christ is (from my own experience) a lot like a marital relationship. The courtship period is really “fun.” Lots of learning about Jesus and who he is, what he did, etc. But after the wedding, as time goes by and the routine sets in, things start to get boring. It’s not that the relationship is bad. It’s because you need to grow in depth. If mass is boring to you, what else do you do to live your faith? Do you live the beatitudes? Do you incorporate your faith into your workplace? Do you look for the face of Jesus in those around you… even the ones you don’t like? Pray the rosary, incorporate the Liturgy of the Hours, or read the bible every day. Join a biblestudy at your parish. Become a Knight of Columbus? Explore the possibility of a vocation. Reach beyond the minimum daily (or weekly) requirement of your faith. Dive in deep and live your faith. If you make a real effort to live your faith more than for one hour on Sunday, you will not be “bored” at mass on Sunday morning. At least, that is my personal experience.

Peace,
Robert

Yes, yes, yes, yes. I pray a daily Rosary. Over the summer I attend daily mass. IDK if you have ever seen my “home altar” thread. read my Bible. In two bible studys, apologetics class. on a temporary leave from my catachism teaching because of this. in the KC squires. say maginificat morning and evening prayers every day. i get in trouble on a daily basis for wearing a cross and reading a bible or other spiritual book at school. Apparently my frineds tell me that my motto is “watch your language”. my television is constantly on EWTN. go to a dioscesan youth confrence and abbeyfest and stubenville every year.

 

[narrowpath]

Why can’t we have both??

We can. Instead of just Mass, why not start a bible study, or rosary prayer group in your parish? a family can’t just meet for breakfast every Sunday. The problem with these worship services at evangelical churches…OK can you concentrate on God better sitting at Mass or adoration in front of Him in the Blessed Sacrament, or screaming and dancing at a laser show, rock music, mosh pit?

we can have both. We just shouldn’t let the latter take away from the former.

 

[narrowpath]

Also, some people have suggested CCR or Lifeteen masses. I can’t stand them myself , but they might help you.

 

[jhcooper]

I understand your concerns. I would like for Catholics to show more interest at mass. However, as a high school math teacher, I have learned that entertainment in the class room destroys education. If any religious service is about being entertained, then what value does it have over Sesame Street? Mass is about giving thanks in the context of the Real Presence. Reverence is the key element of mass, not entertainment.

 

[prodigal-sun]

I’m Catholic, and from the same place as the OP, but just wanted to ask if any of you actually watched the whole video?

Sure there was the praise and worship stuff…

But keep watching…how many of you can say that your Church parish is as active as these guys with local projects and going overseas to do mission trips, help the poor rebuild, etc…

I know mine doesn’t! Sure, we do some things around the community, but these people go all-out! They have teams of people who’s job it is to plan these missions and figure out ways to excel in helpfulness in the community.

Sometimes, I think as Catholics, we forget about this part of Jesus’s message. We get so hung up on the Mass and rule-following that we forget the least among us.

Sure, Diocese as a whole do lots for the community, but this is just one church! Can you imagine if all our Churches were this active and vibrant? There would be no stopping us.

I think another big part of it, is that the majority of these non-denoms are made up of 20-30 year olds who are very energetic and raring to go…most of our Churches are made up of older people who aren’t ‘into’ it.

That’s my experience anyway. Not saying all are grey-headed, but definately the majority are.

These places also rack up way more in fundage than any Catholic parish could hope for.

SHF, I’m not trying to lead you away. From a true theology standpoint, there’s no arguing that the RCC has gotten it right, but it has really suffered in the USA on the social front, with the exception of some groups.

Are you serious, Do you really think that this tiny ministry is able to do even 1% of the charitable works the Catholic church. It always strikes me a strange when people talk about how my church doesn’t do this or my church doesn’t do that. WHy do you wait for others. Why not get off your butt and build these things yourself. All initiatives in the church are created by individuals. As they work hard and persevere through the grunt work of getting there Ideas and hardwork established you will see that they take on steam and begin to bear fruit. A good example of this is Mission Mexico. Take a look at it’s humble beginnings and see what it now acomplishes.

Peace!

 

[prodigal-sun]

Yes, yes, yes, yes. I pray a daily Rosary. Over the summer I attend daily mass. IDK if you have ever seen my “home altar” thread. read my Bible. In two bible studys, apologetics class. on a temporary leave from my catachism teaching because of this. in the KC squires. say maginificat morning and evening prayers every day. i get in trouble on a daily basis for wearing a cross and reading a bible or other spiritual book at school. Apparently my frineds tell me that my motto is “watch your language”. my television is constantly on EWTN. go to a dioscesan youth confrence and abbeyfest and stubenville every year.

Yet you doubt! I don’t get it. If you believe in the real presence and the truth of Catholicism where do you think you will go. After all his disciples walked away from Jesus, he turned to the twelve and asked if they would also leave… their response was to whom shall we go".

I would also like you to go to they fun little bible study and see if any of these ND’s you like to pray the rosary with you or maybe do a novena to our lady or St. Joesph. Good luck with that!

THe truth is the Mass is not a form entertainment oriented Idolatry. I for one am a very quiet, reserved man at Mass and prefer the least amount of distractions like loud music and all the hoopla during Mass. I resent the fact that anyone would say becuase of this I’n the spirit or other such nonsense. I pray and concentrate and more often than not a tear comes to my eye when I take Communion. This is all disrupted when or if the hoopla starts.

My last thought on this thread to you sacredheart fan, is get over yourself. The mass is not about you or your entertainment it is about Jesus… don’t let all the other BS get in the way of that.

You are in my prayers

Peace!

 

[FK04US]

Dear SHF,

I am sorry that you are going through these moments in your Christian life. However, I just want you to remember that our faith journey is not a perfect line, but it is more like a curvy road, with ups and downs. From your readings, you will know that even the saints had doubts and temptations. Do not give up and keep praying.

Now, I would say that maybe God is calling you to explore and get immersed in other areas of Catholic life. Maybe He wants you to get up from your chair and prayer groups for now and join or start a youth group at your Parish. Maybe He is telling you that you need to get involved with other teens or people from your Church/school/work and do something for the poor or the sick or something else that you have not explored yet. I’d recommend you to get involved with some active ministries in your parish or diocese, volunteer, join a youth group and have fun with them.

Catholic life is not meant to be boring. Remember, He is Risen! You just need to look for fun activities and you will find them. Pray for it at Mass, and have fun after that.

Blessings,

 

[SacredHeartFan]

Thank you guys for all your help!!! I’m really sorry for this. I’m actually a little embarresed. You see, I have been out with the flu all week and I was not able to make it to mass on Sunday. I called the priest to see if he could come to my house and bring me communion, well he just now got my message. He came today and I am doing alot better. When I don’t have the chance to recieve the Eucharist on Sunday, I start having these kinds of thoughts and sometimes it gets really bad. I am very traddtional actually! I love the TLM and am a fan of the NO when it is done right. But i am sorry if I scared anyone who knows me from my other posts. Thanks alot!!! (everyone except mr. dickerson of course!) you really anger me.

Pax Christi!

 

[Arandur]

The Mass is prayer. Prayer is reverent, not fun. There is a time for reverence and there is a time for fun. God is the Lord of Time, so ask Him for a time for both.

Good point. I would add that “fun” is not the same thing as “joy.” God calls us to joy, not to hedonism. Joy is much, much deeper. One can have joy in the midst of great trial and suffering. Just look at the lives of the Apostles, of the figures told of in the Scriptures, of the Saints.

Churches that are based on fun and performances are superficial. Interestingly, many studies have shown that they don’t last very long (average member stays 7 years); people just move on, still seeking that ultimate entertainment that they think will fulfill them.

The Good News is that GOD fulfills. No amount of entertainment will do it. God has chosen to make a universal family of His children, led by His Son, our brother and King, and nurtured by the Spirit (as well as our Mother and all the Saints). As another person said, this life is an adventure, a deeper, fuller life than any other, filled with meaning.

If you are looking for entertainment, go to Hollywood. If you are looking for fulfillment and meaning and God, go the the Catholic Church that He made. God never said it would be easy or fun. He provides many mysteries for us to explore, much hard work for us to participate in, and crosses to bear and insodoing share in the saving suffering of our Lord. These various other churches that seek often-superficial “worship” and “community” usually end up denying in various ways God’s mysteries, the many dimensions of work He gives us, and the crosses we are to bear.

While it is certainly true that we Catholics can always improve, ought to celebrate with more joy, these and other things are personal failings.

 

[guanophore]

** I need to rephrase; Are they saying you need to show the sign of “Speaking in tongues” as proof that the individual has received the Holy Spirit?.**

The Catholic Church teaches that the HS is received at baptism. there may be no “outward sign” or “proof”. We believe this by faith in the words of Jesus.

I have never met anyone that speaks in tongues according to the biblical model as seen during the Apostolic era.

Maybe you are hangin’ with the wrong crowd?

 

[narrowpath]

Thank you guys for all your help!!! I’m really sorry for this. I’m actually a little embarresed. You see, I have been out with the flu all week and I was not able to make it to mass on Sunday. I called the priest to see if he could come to my house and bring me communion, well he just now got my message. He came today and I am doing alot better. When I don’t have the chance to recieve the Eucharist on Sunday, I start having these kinds of thoughts and sometimes it gets really bad. I am very traddtional actually! I love the TLM and am a fan of the NO when it is done right. But i am sorry if I scared anyone who knows me from my other posts. Thanks alot!!! (everyone except mr. dickerson of course!) you really anger me.

Pax Christi!

Good to hear. You were in my rosary intentions last night

 

[CatholicLife]

Thank you guys for all your help!!! I’m really sorry for this. I’m actually a little embarresed. You see, I have been out with the flu all week and I was not able to make it to mass on Sunday. I called the priest to see if he could come to my house and bring me communion, well he just now got my message. He came today and I am doing alot better. When I don’t have the chance to recieve the Eucharist on Sunday, I start having these kinds of thoughts and sometimes it gets really bad. I am very traddtional actually! I love the TLM and am a fan of the NO when it is done right. But i am sorry if I scared anyone who knows me from my other posts. Thanks alot!!! (everyone except mr. dickerson of course!) you really anger me.

Pax Christi!

I think you were are going through the “dark night of the soul”.

 

[WarriorAngel]

I have been struggling with this recently. I mean, flat out, it’s boring. Doesn’t God want us to be happy and have fun? I just sit through mass and I’m bored. I spent the night at my friend’s house last weekend and he goes to a non-denominational church in Baton Rouge. It was awesome!! I learned alot and it was alot of fun! Catholics are always talking about making sacrifices too. That just doesn’t work for me. It sounds depressing. I just don’t get alot of other things that go on with the Catholic Church. Why is the pope so filthy rich?? Doesn’t make sense. Also, gay people. Why not? Slavery was not condemmed in the Bible, but we say its bad now. Why can’t homosexualtiy also change? I like gay people. They are nicer than most heterosexual people. Also, most Catholics are not into it. Everyone at that church I went to was participating and loving it!

http://www.healingplacechurch.org/about.php
I am seriously doubting and the only reason I feel a little guilty is because I come from a strong Catholic family.

Well, some may not agree with the Charismatic Rite of the Catholic Church that JPll pronounced acceptable.
I myself am not a member, but that may be your flavor.

Anyway - gay lifestlye is indeed condemned in Romans 1.

I find too much business distracting and quiet closer to God. So I dont need entertained [as it were] with excitement. Thats emotion, and not meditational devoetion.
But hey…

Anyway - Jesus said ‘take up your cross and follow Me.’
That means - i sacrificed and so will you. BUT we have to accept that suffering and offer it up for our own penaces or for others.
ITS exciting because we can turn pain into something wonderful for someone else.

The Pope is not rich. He heads the most charitable organization in the world covering all peoples and not just Catholics.

You certainly seem susciptible to myths and falsehoods.