Doubting Catholicism

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Image_of_God said:
Do you mean that if I happened to reject Catholicism [not that I will], I will go to hell?

I thank you all for your kindness by the way.
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If one knows about and willingly rejects Catholicism, the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church, then he reject its founder. So if one turns his back on Jesus why should he expect to see His face?
 
buffalo said:
If one knows about and willingly reject Catholicism, the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church, then he reject its founder. So if one turns his back on Jesus why should he expect to see His face?
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I understand, but what about the millions of people who reject Catholicism for…say the Oriental Orthodox?
 
Image_of_God said:
I understand, but what about the millions of people who reject Catholicism for…say the Oriental Orthodox?
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At the end of the day we have to leave judgment to God alone. We can only pass on Catholic teaching as best we can to those who will hear it.
 
Image_of_God said:
Do you mean that if I happened to reject Catholicism [not that I will], I will go to hell?
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Let me try to explain this in a little more clear way. 🙂 Let’s just assume for the moment that Catholcism is true. Obviously, not everyone believes that and from the title of the thread it seems you are not sure, but let’s assume for what I am going to say that Catholicism is the true, only Church of Jesus Christ.

Now, let’s say that you know that. Let’s say that you are 1000% sure of it because Jesus Himself appeared to you and told you and there was no question. If you rejected it then, you’d go to Hell, because you would be rejecting Jesus’ Church really, truly knowing it was His Church. You would basically be telling Jesus that you don’t care what He wants, because you know He made this Church for you to be in and you rejected it anyways. It would be total disobedience, and a rejection of salvation because you’d be rejecting the Church you know Jesus created for salvation.

Ok, now let’s assume you are 1000% sure that the Methodist Church is true, the true Church of Jesus. For whatever reason, you really, truly, deeply believe, and I mean truly, you’re not just being disohnest with yourself here, that the Methodist Church is true. Now, we know that in our scenario here, the Methodists have it wrong and it is Catholicism. Still, Jesus does not hold it agaisnt you that you really, truly made a mistake. He doesn’t hold it against you that you got the wrong info, or whatever else happened. he realizes that you joined the Methodist Church out of love for Him, out of believing it was His Church He made for you and you joined it to be with Him, so you have chosen Him, chosen God, even though you happened to get the Church wrong.

What makes the difference in all cases is if you had any fault for getting it wrong. Did you get it wrong because, even though you had questions, you never made the effort to investigate? (This doesn’t seem to apply to you, since you are investigating 🙂 !) Did you get it wrong because you started to investigate, but you didn’t like the answers you were getting so you stopped? Did you get lazy before you had the answer you thought was best? Did you refuse to listen to someone who offered you information? Did you not ask questions because you thought the answers would be difficult to handle?

In other words, did you do anything deliberately that made it your fault that you got it wrong, or did you sincerely try to figure out where God wanted you and just happened to get it wrong? If its the former, then you don’t go to Heaven, because you didn’t love God. Someone who loved God would not deliberately do something that prevented them from finding the truth about Him, they would rather be happy to try to find out more about Him. So, if you deliberately did something to keep you from finding the truth, you would go to Hell not so much for being in the wrong place, but for having rejected God. If you on the other hand sincerely tried hard, and to the best of your ability got it wrong, then God will certainly not damn you, because you chose Him even if you “hit the wrong button.”
 
Image_of_God said:
I understand, but what about the millions of people who reject Catholicism for…say the Oriental Orthodox?
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You seem to be considering the Oriental Orthodox. I have a friend who happens to know a good deal about Oriental Orthodoxy, and whose family is Oriental Orthodox. He would be a fantastic person to talk to about any specific questions you have or just in general. He’s on the forums, and you can get him on AIM, too.

This may just be God working here, because I haven’t been on in *months *and I just happened to get the chance to do it today and just happened to find you. If you want to talk to him, let me know either here or via PM I’ll get you his contact info.
 
Why not ask Jesus himself? You need to ask Him and then sit and listen. He will let you know HImself what it is all about. You have to be sure it is Him talking, though. How do you recognize His voice? Read Scripture. Of course, this proposes that you believe in Jesus. I would hope you do. If you don’t, you will have a long, hard journey ahead of you. If you do, then you will eventually find the path. Be sure and journal your questions and any answers that come to you. Then you will be able to reflect on them, share them with a spiritual director, and discern it’s authenticity. PS: You are in a dangerous position as far as your soul is concerned. Don’t experiment, just sit tight and pray, pray, pray.
 
Isn’t to love God with all our being the #1 commandment?

I’d like to think that if someone was living for Jesus they would be saved.
 
Ceil-1 said:
Why not ask Jesus himself? You need to ask Him and then sit and listen. He will let you know HImself what it is all about. You have to be sure it is Him talking, though. How do you recognize His voice? Read Scripture. Of course, this proposes that you believe in Jesus. I would hope you do. If you don’t, you will have a long, hard journey ahead of you. If you do, then you will eventually find the path. Be sure and journal your questions and any answers that come to you. Then you will be able to reflect on them, share them with a spiritual director, and discern it’s authenticity. PS: You are in a dangerous position as far as your soul is concerned. Don’t experiment, just sit tight and pray, pray, pray.
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I understand, and that is what I did today. I read the passage where Jesus gave the keys to Peter. While reading it, the Papacy seemed to make so much sense. But how do I know that it is me that is making it seem that way. Yes I do believe in Jesus, but the problem is that I want to know what Jesus meant by it. Don’t get me wrong, I love Roman Catholicism. But what if the Roman Catholic Church was wrong? I wish to stay in the Catholic Church, but only if it is true. I do plan on reading the lives of the Saints, because their trust in the Catholic Church amazes me. I also wish to show the world Roman Catholicism, because I do think it is the true faith. But who would believe me if I do not fervently know?

My main doubt is the Papacy. I want to believe the Papacy to be true, but ever since I read other opinions, such as the Oriental Orthodox I began to doubt.
 
Image_of_God said:
I KNOW she is the true Church. I KNOW and trust that God will never permit me to forsake her. But to grow and love her in humility so that I can love Him. And I pray that I will be at least a small help in bring all Churches into communion with the Bishop of Rome.
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At times like this, I remember the father of the boy possessed by the demon. Jesus told him to have faith and the boy will be saved (paraphrase).

“Lord, I believe! Help me in my unbelief!!!!” (Mark 9:24)
 
Lazerlike42 said:
You seem to be considering the Oriental Orthodox. I have a friend who happens to know a good deal about Oriental Orthodoxy, and whose family is Oriental Orthodox. He would be a fantastic person to talk to about any specific questions you have or just in general. He’s on the forums, and you can get him on AIM, too.

This may just be God working here, because I haven’t been on in *months *and I just happened to get the chance to do it today and just happened to find you. If you want to talk to him, let me know either here or via PM I’ll get you his contact info.
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I thank you, but I need to get a firm position of Roman Catholicism before I jet to Orthodoxy however doubtful I may be. I consider the Church’s teaching on leaving the Church. This would be schism if I went to Orthodoxy. If I am not sure if the Catholic Church is wrong, then it would be a hurt to God. I do strive for God, but I think I need to be in the right faith. Of course, I still believe the Church to be true, in so far as it does not include the Papacy. But I want to believe the Papacy to be true, yet I know something cannot be true because I want it to be true. I love the Catholic Church, yet I cannot let my love get in the way of love of God right?
 
NotWorthy said:
At times like this, I remember the father of the boy possessed by the demon. Jesus told him to have faith and the boy will be saved (paraphrase).

“Lord, I believe! Help me in my unbelief!!!!” (Mark 9:24)
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So do you think that I should stay in Roman Catholicism because I think that it is God’s Church, but ask him to help my unbelieving?
 
FillTheVoid said:
Isn’t to love God with all our being the #1 commandment?

I’d like to think that if someone was living for Jesus they would be saved.
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But to know Jesus you must also know what and who He is. We can know the fullness of Jesus through His Church. We can know what He desires of us and what we need to do here on earth to achieve eternity.
 
buffalo said:
But to know Jesus you must also know what and who He is. We can know the fullness of Jesus through His Church. We can know what He desires of us and what we need to do here on earth to achieve eternity.
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But do you believe that the Catholic Church is God’s Church? And if so, what ignites your strong faith?
 
Image_of_God said:
So do you think that I should stay in Roman Catholicism because I think that it is God’s Church, but ask him to help my unbelieving?
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Our Catechism states faith is opening our heart and mind to God.

Continue your search for the truth. Pray to Jesus to help you. Listen when He speaks to you.

If you do so you will know the Catholic Church is His Church.
 
buffalo said:
Our Catechism states faith is opening our heart and mind to God.

Continue your search for the truth. Pray to Jesus to help you. Listen when He speaks to you.

If you do so you will know the Catholic Church is His Church.
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I think that you are right, that I should be patient. But what makes Catholicism more true than Oriental Orthodoxy?
 
Image_of_God said:
I think that you are right, that I should be patient. But what makes Catholicism more true than Oriental Orthodoxy?
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Man can find certain truths by reason alone. Many religions share these foundational truths.

Catholicism has one more thing though. It is Divine Revelation.

If you search for the truth constantly what will happen? You will understand more, right? As you understand more truth you get closer to the absolute truth. Who is the absolute truth? God.

Catholicism is the fullness of truth.
 
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