Doubting Converts

[1968Luke]

I have doubts more so because during my RCIA things did not go as they normally should. I was talking to a friend who is a lifelong Catholic and they feel I am truly not part of the church. First my baptism was done at a Pentecostal church under the name of Jesus only and not under the Holy Trinity. The certificate of baptism I provided was accepted non the less. I was in the process of an annulment that was very lengthy and time consuming and at one point could not continue on with my class. Thus during Easter Vigil I was left out and did not go through the process of confirmation. Nor was I part of the activities leading up to that such as the final meetings/discussions about the faith and I was never part of any confession. Months later after the Easter Vigil, my annulment was completed and one Sunday I was brought in front of the church and announced as being part of the Catholic Church. The priest later on confessed he had forgotten to announce me by my new name as he should have done. My friend is extremely adamant I am not part of the church…is he right?

 

[Della]

I have doubts more so because during my RCIA things did not go as they normally should. I was talking to a friend who is a lifelong Catholic and they feel I am truly not part of the church. First my baptism was done at a Pentecostal church under the name of Jesus only and not under the Holy Trinity. The certificate of baptism I provided was accepted non the less. I was in the process of an annulment that was very lengthy and time consuming and at one point could not continue on with my class. Thus during Easter Vigil I was left out and did not go through the process of confirmation. Nor was I part of the activities leading up to that such as the final meetings/discussions about the faith and I was never part of any confession. Months later after the Easter Vigil, my annulment was completed and one Sunday I was brought in front of the church and announced as being part of the Catholic Church. The priest later on confessed he had forgotten to announce me by my new name as he should have done. My friend is extremely adamant I am not part of the church…is he right?

No, he’s not right. If you have any doubts about your baptism, you should talk to your priest about it. He can give you a conditional baptism. And no one needs to go through RCIA in order to be confirmed. If you have not been properly confirmed you should talk to your priest about that, as well. But, since you intend to be part of the Church you are, by reason of your desire, which is called “baptism of desire,” if nothing else. Still, you will want to talk to your priest about your misgivings to make sure you have received the proper sacraments, including confession.

 

[MacQ]

I have doubts more so because during my RCIA things did not go as they normally should. I was talking to a friend who is a lifelong Catholic and they feel I am truly not part of the church. First my baptism was done at a Pentecostal church under the name of Jesus only and not under the Holy Trinity. The certificate of baptism I provided was accepted non the less. I was in the process of an annulment that was very lengthy and time consuming and at one point could not continue on with my class. Thus during Easter Vigil I was left out and did not go through the process of confirmation. Nor was I part of the activities leading up to that such as the final meetings/discussions about the faith and I was never part of any confession. Months later after the Easter Vigil, my annulment was completed and one Sunday I was brought in front of the church and announced as being part of the Catholic Church. The priest later on confessed he had forgotten to announce me by my new name as he should have done. My friend is extremely adamant I am not part of the church…is he right?

I can’t fathom why your friend thinks that. But not all catholics are well “catechized”, and some are quite misinformed. What reason does he/she cite for that?
I also don’t understand why you were left out of the discussions and confession. In my parish, those who aren’t able to come into communion at Easter Vigil (for the reasons you couldn’t) are still invited to complete all other parts of the process, preparing for the day when they can. Sometimes the elect not to, but many do participate.

 

[DJgang]

My reply was to someone who asserted that RCIA enquirers should be “evangelized to” because accepting Christ must come FIRST in the process.
I have found that NOT to be true…that it is a process that happens for individuals on their own journey and timetable.
You might want to read his/her initial post. The kind of preaching scene described would have turned me right off, and many others I know of.

As to your other point, seems like you either had a somewhat weak RCIA process, or you have an arrogance problem. I’ll assume for your benefit it’s not the latter. The process in my parish is run by very capable and learned catechist, and is supplemented in teaching by priests who are exceptional theologians. We are aware of how fortunate a thing that is.
The process as we do it is not just didactic classes…experiences that are formative are part of it, and so is community building. Most of our enquirers are sorry when the process ends.

Many of our enquirers come to us with substantial knowledge of the Bible and scripture, more so than many of the cradle catholics they will eventually join. Most come to the sessions to learn what catholics believe and why.
In some cases, they struggle, and that’s no bad thing. The ones who struggle are often the deepest converts in the end.
The ones who come in thinking they already know everything…well, they miss alot I find. I guess it’s because they don’t listen or ask questions, or do the deep search that leads others to a wonderful and profound spiritual conversion.

I’m sorry that your RCIA didn’t meet your needs

Please don’t think arrogance at all when speaking of this…as I too spent years researching catholicsm before attending RCIA. (As you can tell membership here 2005, converted 2008) my RCIA program was very basic, like they were training new Christians not necessarily catholics. I attended faithfully, as I knew that I had to in order to become catholic. I found myself furthering the discussion into more catholicsm teachings. I honestly was shocked that the class didn’t delve into real catholic teachings. Like I said, it was basic christain and church history. Anyway…

 

[MacQ]

Please don’t think arrogance at all when speaking of this…as I too spent years researching catholicsm before attending RCIA. (As you can tell membership here 2005, converted 2008) my RCIA program was very basic, like they were training new Christians not necessarily catholics. I attended faithfully, as I knew that I had to in order to become catholic. I found myself furthering the discussion into more catholicsm teachings. I honestly was shocked that the class didn’t delve into real catholic teachings. Like I said, it was basic christain and church history. Anyway…

Well, sorry the RCIA process wasn’t richer…it can be spiritually enlightening for people…even those who come in just thinking they’ll punch their ticket so to speak.
But, not every parish is lucky enough to have someone who knows how to teach and to create experiences that go that way.
Glad you perservered in spite of that.

 

[DJgang]

Well, sorry the RCIA process wasn’t richer…it can be spiritually enlightening for people…even those who come in just thinking they’ll punch their ticket so to speak.
But, not every parish is lucky enough to have someone who knows how to teach and to create experiences that go that way.
Glad you perservered in spite of that.

Please don’t take it personally as you have all the other posts with people’s concern for RCIA programs. I have no doubt that people learn a lot while in formation, I never said that they didn’t.

 

[MacQ]

Please don’t take it personally as you have all the other posts with people’s concern for RCIA programs. I have no doubt that people learn a lot while in formation, I never said that they didn’t.

Not sure what I said that irked you, but I am sorry. My post was not intended personally at all…it was in fact somewhat of a lament that the quality of RCIA programs apparently varies so much, based on wishing the best for anyone who enquires about becoming catholic and hoping that their needs are fulfilled.
Again, nothing else was implied or intended.
Best to you,
mq

 

[DarkLight]

Not sure what I said that irked you, but I am sorry. My post was not intended personally at all…it was in fact somewhat of a lament that the quality of RCIA programs apparently varies so much, based on wishing the best for anyone who enquires about becoming catholic and hoping that their needs are fulfilled.
Again, nothing else was implied or intended.
Best to you,
mq

Even within them you have the problem that people’s needs vary. I suspect that was my problem. I came in with about 2 years of extensive research on Catholicism and was put in a class with people who did not know what a rosary was. It was I think what they needed, but it was immensely frustrating for me.

 

[Brandon_Cal]

Doubt Problems for Coverts
This is for my fellow converts. There are obviously many paths one might take in deciding to adopt the Catholic faith. Considering the fact that not all RCIA programs are created equal, did any of you still have significant doubts about parts of the faith after your conversion? Case and point, the RCIA program I attended was very poor. I had 2 instructors, a husband and wife team (who are now divorced, go figure). All they taught me was how to get through mass without making a fool out myself, something I had learned on my own 25 years before. As a result, I entered the faith with a rubber stamp.

I may ruffle some feathers with this post but here goes anyway:

I’ve gone through RCIA two full times and was in the middle of my third time this year when I quit going all together for this very reason. These were three different parishes all teaching a very superficial Catholicism. Half the classes were either so vague in content that the course could easily have been adapted for a program for conversion to any other religion. The other half simply informed the catechumens about Catholic norms (when to sit, kneel, how to pray the Rosary, etc.) There has been almost no theology, and whenever I’d try to ask a sincere question the RCIA director would brush it off as “too complex for this kind of a class”.

I like you have been attending Mass for a very long time. I’m very comfortable with it. I’ve also been studying Catholicism (and Orthodoxy for that matter) on my own for a little over a decade. I don’t need to waste two hours of my week to sit with other grown adults to talk about how God “makes me feel”. I come to RCIA to get the tough answers to my tough questions, and if the best the diocese has to offer are folks that can’t even give a convincing, let alone coherent defense of papal supremacy when asked the more I’m starting to inch my way to Holy Orthodoxy.

I have doubts about other things too, but Mary was my biggest challenge.
Did any of you have such an issue? Not just with Mary, but with anything?
Views and experiences please?

Yes I still have lots of doubts, which is why I haven’t yet swum the Tiber. I don’t expect to understand 100% of Catholic dogma, or feel as certain about every single facet of Catholicism as I do about, say, my industry. At the same time, I don’t want to just “fake it til I make it” either. One day at a time, as they say. I’ll get there eventually. You’ve already done the hard part in actually converting, so I’d say just take it slowly, keep asking questions, and keep thinking. Don’t get discouraged just because something doesn’t make sense right away. Take it from me, it takes a while

 

[Mathias64]

Thank you all for your comments.

My problem with Mary was being able to think about her in a much “bigger” player in the grand scheme. My Baptist upbringing included extensive bible study (much more extensive than any Catholic program I have seen). What I gleaned from that study was that Mary was chosen to bear the Christ child and she said yes. I was taught that she was” blessed among women” because she was chosen and said yes, thus reinforcing the “free will” thing. From that point on, my Baptist teaching portrayed her from a purely human standpoint. There was no consideration of her “immaculate conception. Curiously, I was taught that Mary was made sinless at the moment of the implantation of Jesus in her womb, because sin could not coexist with Jesus because he was pure love, a very dramatic (if possibly restrictive) concept. This runs in parallel to the Baptist belief of being “saved” at baptism (which I did at age 13). That’s when you choose to follow Jesus, as did Mary. At that point, your sins are washed away and you became a clean vessel, as did Mary. You could always ask forgiveness for sins committed thereafter, up until death, at which time you faced judgment day – thumbs up or thumbs down.
But I digress. The term “Mother of the Church” was not taught. I suppose that’s because we did not recognize a “Church”. There was Jesus, God, The Holy Spirit and then there was us. So now, I still seldom think the term “Mother of the Church”. I don’t think it dilute my belief at all, it just does not come quickly to my mind. I do however reject any notion of Mary sharing with Jesus the ability to save.

I also would like to think that there are no Catholics, Baptists, Methodists or whatever in heaven. By the time we get there, those terms will be obsolete, and those who had “imperfect faith” on earth will know the truth and we will all be together. As a convert, I do not see The Baptist faith as something escaped from, rather something I progressed from. There’s still nothing that can match a Baptist “lunch on the lawn” for fellowship.

 

[MacQ]

Even within them you have the problem that people’s needs vary. I suspect that was my problem. I came in with about 2 years of extensive research on Catholicism and was put in a class with people who did not know what a rosary was. It was I think what they needed, but it was immensely frustrating for me.

Absolutely true… people come to RCIA with varying backgrounds and needs.
I have seen:
Some like you come with a well prepared knowledge of catholicism, while others come without much of an idea (and some come with misconceptions). Many come with a firm grounding in another Christian tradition, but others may come who were raised as Muslims or Buddhists, still others from very secular backgrounds. Some were raised in Catholic homes too, but were never catechized. And some do come thinking that they already know it all (and they don’t). They miss alot, I find…only because they are not open to hearing.
Some have never been to a Mass, and others have been attending Mass for years (which doesn’t mean they understand it). Some come in thinking they don’t care what it is, they’re just there to please their spouse, while others come truly seeking in catholicism what they have found missing in other traditions. Believe it or not, I have even seen people come into RCIA thinking they could prove catholicism is wrong by mounting debates in the sessions!

Since you were so well prepared, and seem to want something more, perhaps you could consider seeking other adult formation programs or being of service to them in your parish

 

[MacQ]

Thank you all for your comments.

I do however reject any notion of Mary sharing with Jesus the ability to save.

I also would like to think that there are no Catholics, Baptists, Methodists or whatever in heaven. By the time we get there, those terms will be obsolete, and those who had “imperfect faith” on earth will know the truth and we will all be together. As a convert, I do not see The Baptist faith as something escaped from, rather something I progressed from. There’s still nothing that can match a Baptist “lunch on the lawn” for fellowship.

Catholicism does NOT teach that Mary has an ability to save. Everything about Mary should point to Jesus.

That said, I like the way you describe your faith progression (rather than an escape). I don’t think it behooves any of us to think of other traditions in a pejorative way, and your description is quite consistent with the Church’s position…catholicism offers a “fullness” that doesn’t compete with or negate other traditions. I am a tad uncomfortable when I hear new converts making comparisons to their former churches in any other way.

 

[Della]

Thank you all for your comments.

My problem with Mary was being able to think about her in a much “bigger” player in the grand scheme. My Baptist upbringing included extensive bible study (much more extensive than any Catholic program I have seen). What I gleaned from that study was that Mary was chosen to bear the Christ child and she said yes. I was taught that she was” blessed among women” because she was chosen and said yes, thus reinforcing the “free will” thing. From that point on, my Baptist teaching portrayed her from a purely human standpoint.

I had pretty much the same kind of teaching in the Assemblies of God. I earned a B. A. in religious education in the AoG, so I have a similar background in Bible study with the same limitations you had with regards to Mary. Actually, Mary figures much more in OT typology than she even does in the NT. A good source for this is from one of the Doctors of the Church, St. Alphonsus de Liguori’s “The Glories of Mary,” which I highly recommend on the topic. The text is available online or you can buy a copy through Amazon or other book sellers.

There was no consideration of her “immaculate conception. Curiously, I was taught that Mary was made sinless at the moment of the implantation of Jesus in her womb, because sin could not coexist with Jesus because he was pure love, a very dramatic (if possibly restrictive) concept.

I’ve never heard that explanation before. The Baptists I knew all claimed that Mary was a sinner just like us. Baptist theology may have changed since the 70’s or maybe it’s a regional understanding. Anyway, if you still have misunderstandings about the Immaculate Conception and want to talk about it you could start a new thread.

This runs in parallel to the Baptist belief of being “saved” at baptism (which I did at age 13). That’s when you choose to follow Jesus, as did Mary. At that point, your sins are washed away and you became a clean vessel, as did Mary. You could always ask forgiveness for sins committed thereafter, up until death, at which time you faced judgment day – thumbs up or thumbs down.

Baptism does wash away both original sin and actual sin, and we can confess our sins until death. We are not “saved” at baptism, though, as in OSAS, of course. Although the freshly baptized would certainly go to heaven if he should die. Another topic for another thread if you want to discuss it. :yup:

But I digress. The term “Mother of the Church” was not taught. I suppose that’s because we did not recognize a “Church”. There was Jesus, God, The Holy Spirit and then there was us. So now, I still seldom think the term “Mother of the Church”. I don’t think it dilute my belief at all, it just does not come quickly to my mind.

“Mother of the Church” is the same thing as “Mother of the Faithful” or “Mother of the Redeemed.” All who are baptized are members of the Church by reason of their baptism, although non-Catholics are imperfectly joined to her.

I do however reject any notion of Mary sharing with Jesus the ability to save.

Ah, well here is an opportunity to clear up a bit of your confusion (as I perceive it). All of us are co-workers with Christ in bringing others to salvation. In that way we are all “saviors” of the lost. Understood in this way, Mary is a savior of men. You see, Jesus’ death and resurrection redeemed all men–everywhere. Salvation is what will happen to us upon our deaths, towards which we are working “with fear and trembling.” Jesus is certainly our Savior in that he died for our sins and pours out his grace on us so that we can be saved. However, there are many ways in which God draws men to himself. One is through the witness of other Christians, and the greatest Christian witness of all is Mary. She prays for us, aids us and guides us if we ask for her help. She’s a co-worker with Christ, not a usurper of Christ. Still, after considering the title “Co-redemptrix,” the Vatican decided that it would be too confusing to people, a decision with which I happen to agree. She needs no such titles to gain our affection and honor.

I also would like to think that there are no Catholics, Baptists, Methodists or whatever in heaven. By the time we get there, those terms will be obsolete, and those who had “imperfect faith” on earth will know the truth and we will all be together.

Well, considering that there is no salvation outside Christ’s Church, we will all be Catholics in that sense. All who are baptized in Christ are part of the his Church, and he has only one Church. Non-Catholic ecclesial bodies are not “the” Church. Rather they are splinters of it. Still, there is much truth in them and God works through them to bring men to salvation for he will not quench the least spark of love for him no matter where it is found. More and more Protestant bodies are embracing Catholic teachings they once abhorred. I see it as a sign that God is bringing us back into one body in which we can truly have one faith, one baptism, one mind in Christ.

As a convert, I do not see The Baptist faith as something escaped from, rather something I progressed from. There’s still nothing that can match a Baptist “lunch on the lawn” for fellowship.

I feel much the same. I learned so very much in the Assemblies of God (and as an Episcopalian–another story for another time). I deeply appreciate the faith of our separated brethren and all they give to the people of God. Catholic parishes tend to be quite large, so fellowship is done mostly in small groups or perhaps special occasions, but it’s there. Catholics are also much more diverse, even in one parish. We have people from many backgrounds and races in my parish alone, and it’s only one in a large suburb of a megalopolis. It’s all in how you look at it.

 

[DarkLight]

Absolutely true… people come to RCIA with varying backgrounds and needs.
I have seen:
Some like you come with a well prepared knowledge of catholicism, while others come without much of an idea (and some come with misconceptions). Many come with a firm grounding in another Christian tradition, but others may come who were raised as Muslims or Buddhists, still others from very secular backgrounds. Some were raised in Catholic homes too, but were never catechized. And some do come thinking that they already know it all (and they don’t). They miss alot, I find…only because they are not open to hearing.
Some have never been to a Mass, and others have been attending Mass for years (which doesn’t mean they understand it). Some come in thinking they don’t care what it is, they’re just there to please their spouse, while others come truly seeking in catholicism what they have found missing in other traditions. Believe it or not, I have even seen people come into RCIA thinking they could prove catholicism is wrong by mounting debates in the sessions!

Since you were so well prepared, and seem to want something more, perhaps you could consider seeking other adult formation programs or being of service to them in your parish

I’m certainly keeping my eyes out. Right now my health has been keeping me in the house far more often than I would like, especially as with lowered energy I have very little left once the things I need to get done are done.

The added difficulty for me was that I came in with an almost cult-like background. I could adapt to new teachings easily enough, but it was much harder to sort out the practice. And the instructor was a cradle catholic who often didn’t understand the difficulties of someone coming from certain different backgrounds. I needed a “what not to do” more than “what to do”, to filter out all the practices I’d learned that weren’t actually good or helpful.

The method of seeing Catholicism as an outgrowth of the faith I learned didn’t work well, because there was so much I had to unlearn. In some ways it would have been easier if I had come to the church never knowing Christianity before.

 

[MacQ]

I’m certainly keeping my eyes out. Right now my health has been keeping me in the house far more often than I would like, especially as with lowered energy I have very little left once the things I need to get done are done.

The added difficulty for me was that I came in with an almost cult-like background. I could adapt to new teachings easily enough, but it was much harder to sort out the practice. And the instructor was a cradle catholic who often didn’t understand the difficulties of someone coming from certain different backgrounds. I needed a “what not to do” more than “what to do”, to filter out all the practices I’d learned that weren’t actually good or helpful.

The method of seeing Catholicism as an outgrowth of the faith I learned didn’t work well, because there was so much I had to unlearn. In some ways it would have been easier if I had come to the church never knowing Christianity before.

I find your thoughts very insightful…and very well articulated.
I do also find that “cradle” catholics often don’t think to explain some things that converts really want and need to know. Some things are so automatic for them that they never thought about telling us. It’s good to have people helping with RCIA who have been through the process themselves, I find.
I do hope your health situation improves (I will pray for you). Meanwhile, there’s probably alot to contribute online or other ways. I suppose everyone you meet could benefit from knowing you.

 

[DarkLight]

I find your thoughts very insightful…and very well articulated.
I do also find that “cradle” catholics often don’t think to explain some things that converts really want and need to know. Some things are so automatic for them that they never thought about telling us. It’s good to have people helping with RCIA who have been through the process themselves, I find.
I do hope your health situation improves (I will pray for you). Meanwhile, there’s probably alot to contribute online or other ways. I suppose everyone you meet could benefit from knowing you.

Definitely. And even compare my responses with the responses of the people prior to me. A convert from a less difficult situation may make transitions to seeing Catholicism as the completion of the path they were on fairly easily. Whereas someone more like me might have a harder transition for various reasons.

I’m reminded of something a friend said to me during the process: “If you’re not sure if something is a sin or not, it’s not.” Would that be advice I’d give to a mixed class? Probably not. However it was good advice to someone from my background and with my temperament. Advice given to other people on how they should examine their consciences might be more likely to send me in a spiral of unnecessary guilt. There’s just a lot of individual needs that are hard to meet in a class format.

 

[DAML72]

Doubt Problems for Coverts
This is for my fellow converts. There are obviously many paths one might take in deciding to adopt the Catholic faith. Considering the fact that not all RCIA programs are created equal, did any of you still have significant doubts about parts of the faith after your conversion? Case and point, the RCIA program I attended was very poor. I had 2 instructors, a husband and wife team (who are now divorced, go figure). All they taught me was how to get through mass without making a fool out myself, something I had learned on my own 25 years before. As a result, I entered the faith with a rubber stamp. Even though I had been attending mass for 30 years with my wife (a cradle Catholic), we talked very little about it. I came to my decision through a different door, I believe, than most. I actually played and sung in the choir for 3 years before deciding to convert. I am sure that is unusual in most parishes. At that same time, I was playing and singing in the parish Charismatic Prayer & Praise group, still as a Baptist. When I decided to convert, my music family WAS my FAMILY. My wife was pleased, but my kids sure didn’t care. My choir mates lifted me up and carried me right through it. IN fact it was from oine of them that I took my first communion.
Our parish does not have strong Marian devotion, except for our Hispanic community. So in a weird way you might say that the Anglos leave the Mary stuff to the Hispanics. Sad I know, no insults intended. Not saying it is right, only that it is. As a result, I had very little education as to Mary’s roll in things. And - I had a very hard time reconciling her true place in the Church. It took me nearly six years to come to grips with it, and to this day, I am very wary of the subject. My first confessor, and 80 year old priest who had done about all a priest can do, told me not to worry, that truth be told, I am was among many with this same issue. He said to just keep praying, praising and worshipping, and God will reconcile it all with me in his time. It took six years before I was finally able to reach out to Mary.
I have doubts about other things too, but Mary was my biggest challenge.
Did any of you have such an issue? Not just with Mary, but with anything?
Views and experiences please?

I came into the church completely on my own - nobody with me, nothing at stake, so I wanted to make sure that I was completely accepting of every part of Church teaching before I was confirmed. For the teachings that I had trouble with, I prayed, and studied, and prayed some more and, thankfully, the Holy Spirit answered my prayer. At some point, when I got the big things behind me, I decided I was at a place where I was just able to trust the Church. So, no - I don’t have doubts.

However, I do struggle with the culture shock, feel like I don’t fit in, and am starting to see that there are a lot of things about the Church that are not perfect. And I struggle to live up to the rules and practices of the Church, but as far as doubting the teaching of the Church, no.

What do you struggle with? Perhaps some here could help. Also, watching EWTN programming has helped me a lot - Mother Angelica, The Journey Home, etc.

 

[MacQ]

However, I do struggle with the culture shock, feel like I don’t fit in, and am starting to see that there are a lot of things about the Church that are not perfect. And I struggle to live up to the rules and practices of the Church, but as far as doubting the teaching of the Church, no.
.

Just curious if you’re willing to say… if you’re willing to elaborate on those points…what makes you feel you don’t fit it…what you find “not perfect” (that you presumably expected otherwise)…and what rules and practices you struggle with.
I’m only asking in order to better understand the journey of new converts, as I work closely with them at my parish… (I am one myself, but didn’t experience these things)…
Thanks,MQ

 

[DAML72]

I may ruffle some feathers with this post but here goes anyway:

I’ve gone through RCIA two full times and was in the middle of my third time this year when I quit going all together for this very reason. These were three different parishes all teaching a very superficial Catholicism. Half the classes were either so vague in content that the course could easily have been adapted for a program for conversion to any other religion. The other half simply informed the catechumens about Catholic norms (when to sit, kneel, how to pray the Rosary, etc.) There has been almost no theology, and whenever I’d try to ask a sincere question the RCIA director would brush it off as “too complex for this kind of a class”.

I like you have been attending Mass for a very long time. I’m very comfortable with it. I’ve also been studying Catholicism (and Orthodoxy for that matter) on my own for a little over a decade. I don’t need to waste two hours of my week to sit with other grown adults to talk about how God “makes me feel”. I come to RCIA to get the tough answers to my tough questions, and if the best the diocese has to offer are folks that can’t even give a convincing, let alone coherent defense of papal supremacy when asked the more I’m starting to inch my way to Holy Orthodoxy.

Yes I still have lots of doubts, which is why I haven’t yet swum the Tiber. I don’t expect to understand 100% of Catholic dogma, or feel as certain about every single facet of Catholicism as I do about, say, my industry. At the same time, I don’t want to just “fake it til I make it” either. One day at a time, as they say. I’ll get there eventually. You’ve already done the hard part in actually converting, so I’d say just take it slowly, keep asking questions, and keep thinking. Don’t get discouraged just because something doesn’t make sense right away. Take it from me, it takes a while

It’s funny - I think my RCIA experience would have been enhanced by the instructions of when to kneel, what to say, etc. We got none of that. What we did get, I had already learned on my own. Most of what I got out of RCIA was being able to get to know some parishioners. That was nice, because conversion can be a very lonely experience.

 

[DAML72]

Just curious if you’re willing to say… if you’re willing to elaborate on those points…what makes you feel you don’t fit it…what you find “not perfect” (that you presumably expected otherwise)…and what rules and practices you struggle with.
I’m only asking in order to better understand the journey of new converts, as I work closely with them at my parish… (I am one myself, but didn’t experience these things)…
Thanks,MQ

My situation may be a bit unique, though I have heard similar things from other converts. I came to the Church already divorced. Attending church alone is difficult anywhere, but I definitely feel more out of place in Mass then I did in my last church, where there were plenty of single moms, gay couples, etc.

My children are 12 and 9 and have had very little religious education, and their father is not on board with them becoming Catholic, so I’m already fighting an uphill battle at home with them, and the parish really doesn’t offer anything to help. If I want them to be part of the church and receive communion, they have to attend years of education first - and it’s not done on Sunday like with other church’s Sunday schools. For my daughter, it would have been and hour and 1/2 every week after school, with strict attendance requirements (tough when there is split custody). That was a lot for her to fit into a week jammed with homework and other activities - made worse by the fact that her Dad was discouraging it. It was also too much of a culture shock for her to be put in CCD, studying the commandments and learning prayers. It’s rigorous - I want her to first learn about Jesus and his love and mercy before being overwhelmed with ‘Catholic guilt’.

I understand that kids need to be well-catechized, but my problem is that there is nothing in place aimed at kids their age that might ‘hook’ them - to pull them in so that they want to choose to be educated in the faith. Maybe because the parish has a school, there is nothing else at all offered for the kids. No youth group, no outings, no other way for them to get to know our Lord outside that formal structure, which just seems very dry and overwhelming. I’m starting to understand why one of my Catholic friends is sending her sons to Sunday School at the Episcopal Church. (She stopped bringing the boys to Mass after a priest from another parish decided to read from the pulpit about the sex abuse scandal and she found herself in the parking lot crying because she had to explain to two young boys what the priest was talking about.)

I have another friend who is also divorced who was raised Catholic and she bent over backwards, and even took her ex-husband to court to allow the children to attend CCD and then, when there was a problem with scheduling, the parish would not work with her at all. They said she had to pray about it and decide what was most important for her children. She and the kids no longer attend church.

In general, I think the hardest part is the loss of community that there tends to be in Protestant churches - with bible studies, coffee hours, fundraisers, holiday gatherings, get-togethers at peoples homes, etc. When you are part of a Protestant congregation, it becomes a bit like family - you feel welcome. When you come into a Catholic Church, there is NONE of that. You meet a few people through RCIA and maybe someone calls you once to welcome you, but for the most part people are out the door as soon as the service has ended (1/4 of the congregation is out before the service has ended). There’s no opportunity to get to know anyone.

When you become Catholic, you are on your own, just you and Christ. And that’s good, but when you need spiritual direction, the priests are way too busy to give you much of their time.

I also think that there has been some reluctance/inability on the part of church leadership sometimes to take full responsibility for the sex abuse scandal - that bothers me a little. (Not enough to walk away from the Eucharist, but it’s bothersome).

Does that give you some idea? There are a few more things, but they are more general things that probably can’t be addressed adequately at the parish level, and it’s way past my bed time.