Doubts about God

[D0UBTFIRE]

Hello, I’m not sure if this makes sense, but I’ve been having so many doubts lately that I feel like a closet Atheist. I love the Church, I love Christianity, I love the idea of faith and spirituality, but most the time deep down I am unconvinced that there is anything more than the material. I tell God in prayer that I refuse to give up on my faith - I have to make a conscious choice constantly to say I do believe - but I feel like I’m lieing to myself. I stick with it (religioin) because I like it. But I hate feeling like this. Anyone else experience this?

 

[petra22]

Doutfire,
Once I had thoughts that all of the religious stories I had heard and read were just that, beautiful stories. I didn’t have much faith… Then I read a simple book about Fatima. It was called Fatima in Lucia’s own words… these three children had seen Our Lady and it made such a difference in their little lives. There is NO WAY that these children DID NOT see Our Lady. I taught school for many years and the actions of these innocent children convinced me that there is a God. He is our Father, He sent Jesus, His son, born of a virgin named Mary. In other words, IT"S ALL REAL. ALL of it! Since I read that book about 30 years ago, I have been on a wonderful journey learning about the truths of God, His beauty, His mercy and His love. In fact, I got that book out again this week and have finished all but the last few pages and it still AMAZES me! Read it, don’t be a doubter. Read all you can find on Fatima because that little book doesn’t tell all the things that actually happened there like the sun spinning or dancing and being witnessed by 70,000 people!!!

I’m praying for you. There are many roads (lives of the saints) that can lead you to the realization that it is all true. I pray that you find one and fall in love with the God who loves you so much!

 

[McCartney]

Only the Catholic Church has the true presence of Jesus in the Eucharist

therealpresence.org/eucharst/mir/engl_mir.htm

 

[Eduardo06sp]

One of the things that always helps me is reading about the saints.
Do you know why I believe they really are holy people?
Incorruptible bodies.

That’s right, there are certain saints whose bodies have not decayed!
This leads me to believe that there really are such things as saints, regardless of whether their body is incorrupt or not.

Also, I really couldn’t deny Eucharistic miracles! I have actually had second thoughts regarding the Holy Host, but I remember about these miracles and these thoughts go away.

I strongly recommend that you view the three links I shared with you. As I’m typing, I’m feeling uneasy! (in a good way )
Oh, and have a prayer schedule and try going to a morning Mass on a weekday.
Additionally, pray the Rosary. It has been a great aid in my faith.
When I feel like giving up, I remember that a righteous person named Jesus, who is also God, founded this religion. Then I can’t even imagine living my life without the Church.
:knight1:

 

[Jerbear]

I am a former Catholic who grew up in a devout household, everyone else is still devout. There are 4 groups of people when it comes to belief.

You have your gnostic theists, which are people who claim that they know that there is a God.

You have agnostic theists, which are people who claim they don’t know if there’s a God but they believe it to be even though they can’t prove it.

There are gnostic atheists, which are people who claim to know that there is no God.

You have agnostic atheists, which are people who claim that they don’t know if there is a God or not but don’t believe because they haven’t seen any real evidence to convince them. This is where I fall.

You could also then possibly add the categories of deists, both gnostic and agnostic, which is the belief that there’s an impersonal God who created the universe then let it run it’s course.

I was originally a devout Catholic, then just loosely Catholic, then Christian, then non-practicing Christian, then agnostic deist, and now I am an agnostic atheist. It can take quite awhile to figure out where you stand. My transition probably took about 3 years or so.

 

[josh987654321]

Doutfire,
Once I had thoughts that all of the religious stories I had heard and read were just that, beautiful stories. I didn’t have much faith… Then I read a simple book about Fatima. It was called Fatima in Lucia’s own words… these three children had seen Our Lady and it made such a difference in their little lives. There is NO WAY that these children DID NOT see Our Lady. I taught school for many years and the actions of these innocent children convinced me that there is a God. He is our Father, He sent Jesus, His son, born of a virgin named Mary. In other words, IT"S ALL REAL. ALL of it! Since I read that book about 30 years ago, I have been on a wonderful journey learning about the truths of God, His beauty, His mercy and His love. In fact, I got that book out again this week and have finished all but the last few pages and it still AMAZES me! Read it, don’t be a doubter. Read all you can find on Fatima because that little book doesn’t tell all the things that actually happened there like the sun spinning or dancing and being witnessed by 70,000 people!!!

I’m praying for you. There are many roads (lives of the saints) that can lead you to the realization that it is all true. I pray that you find one and fall in love with the God who loves you so much!

Only the Catholic Church has the true presence of Jesus in the Eucharist

therealpresence.org/eucharst/mir/engl_mir.htm

Thank you McCartney, I have been looking for an Archive of Eucharistic miracles like that, thank you very much.

I am a former Catholic who grew up in a devout household, everyone else is still devout. There are 4 groups of people when it comes to belief.

You have your gnostic theists, which are people who claim that they know that there is a God.

You have agnostic theists, which are people who claim they don’t know if there’s a God but they believe it to be even though they can’t prove it.

There are gnostic atheists, which are people who claim to know that there is no God.

You have agnostic atheists, which are people who claim that they don’t know if there is a God or not but don’t believe because they haven’t seen any real evidence to convince them. This is where I fall.

You could also then possibly add the categories of deists, both gnostic and agnostic, which is the belief that there’s an impersonal God who created the universe then let it run it’s course.

I was originally a devout Catholic, then just loosely Catholic, then Christian, then non-practicing Christian, then agnostic deist, and now I am an agnostic atheist. It can take quite awhile to figure out where you stand. My transition probably took about 3 years or so.

not Richard Dawkins’ God Delusion.

I believe that book has so many misconceptions and logical fallacies. I believe those who read his book and believe him, do so because they want to believe the lies.

Also, I believe Richard Dawkins puts himself in the category of an agnostic atheist, however, he is actually a gnostic atheist. I believe someone who ‘doesn’t know’ does not go around saying that ‘God’ is childish nonsense, Nor do they compare their doubt to something which they don’t doubt like fairies in the garden.

Thank you for reading
Josh

 

[josh987654321]

Hello, I’m not sure if this makes sense, but I’ve been having so many doubts lately that I feel like a closet Atheist. I love the Church, I love Christianity, I love the idea of faith and spirituality, but most the time deep down I am unconvinced that there is anything more than the material. I tell God in prayer that I refuse to give up on my faith - I have to make a conscious choice constantly to say I do believe - but I feel like I’m lieing to myself. I stick with it (religioin) because I like it. But I hate feeling like this. Anyone else experience this?

Hi Doubtfire

I hope you don’t mind if I share with you some words which may help with your doubt.

I believe without God, the words true or false simply become meaningless, so the question I ask the atheist, is if there is no God, why do you believe it to be true?

I believe to follow the concept of a purely material universe to it’s logical conclusion, pulls the rug out from under the New Atheists. As John Lennox say’s, If as they claim, there is nothing in the universe except matter and energy, some of which blindly and randomly evolved into the human mind, then how can we rely on our minds in the first place to arrive at this conclusion? Our minds are themselves, according to this Darwinian view, mere random purposeless movements of atoms, unable to recognise truth, or beauty, or goodness, to know anything, or to do science for that matter.

And yet other scientists of undisputed intellectual stature with diametrically opposed views concur that, ‘The reason why what is in my little mind can understand a bit of what is out there is because both of them are traceable back to the same grand designer.’

C.S. Lewis I believe also explains it very well.

“Supposing there was no intelligence behind the universe, no creative mind. In that case, nobody designed my brain for the purpose of thinking. It is merely that when the atoms inside my skull happen, for physical or chemical reasons, to arrange themselves in a certain way, this gives me, as a by-product, the sensation I call thought. But, if so, how can I trust my own thinking to be true? It’s like upsetting a milk jug and hoping that the way it splashes itself will give you a map of London. But if I can’t trust my own thinking, of course I can’t trust the arguments leading to Atheism, and therefore have no reason to be an Atheist, or anything else. Unless I believe in God, I cannot believe in thought: so I can never use thought to disbelieve in God.” - C.S. Lewis

The theory that thought is merely a movement in the brain is, in my opinion, nonsense; for if so, that theory itself would be merely a movement, an event among atoms, which may have speed and direction but of which it would be meaningless to use the words ‘true’ or ‘false’. C.S. Lewis

If the solar system was brought about by an accidental collision, then the appearance of organic life on this planet was also an accident, and the whole evolution of Man was an accident too. If so, then all our present thoughts are mere accidents - the accidental by-product of the movement of atoms. And this holds for the thoughts of the materialists and astronomers as well as for anyone else’s. But if their thoughts - i.e., Materialism and Astronomy - are mere accidental by-products, why should we believe them to be true? I see no reason for believing that one accident should be able to give me a correct account of all the other accidents. It’s like expecting the accidental shape taken by the splash when you upset a milk-jug should give you a correct account of how the jug was made and why it was upset. - C.S. Lewis

John Lennox I believe also explains it very well.

*I believe in God because I believe there is evidence for God, for example, in the very fact that we can do science, we believe that the universe is rationally intelligible. Why does a scientist believe it is rationally intelligible? Atheism tells us that the human mind is the human brain and it’s the end product of a mindless unguided process, why should I believe anything it tells me if that’s the case? Whereas theism tells me that there is intelligence behind the universe and behind the human mind which fits perfectly with science. So part of the evidence for God would be the fact that we can do science.

In fact the rise of science in the 16th and 17th century came about because people expected law in nature, because they believed in the Law giver (God). So science and faith in God fit perfectly together*. - John Lennox

Thus I believe it’s not science and theism that are in conflict as most atheists like to claim, it’s actually science and atheism that are in conflict, because atheism cannot trust the cognitive faculties we use to do science, as C.S. Lewis say’s atheism and science is like expecting the accidental shape taken by the splash when you upset a milk jug should give you a correct account of how the jug was made and why it was upset.

Thus I believe by denying God, the honest skeptic becomes skeptical of his skepticism.

Please continue to next post -

 

[josh987654321]

I also like these quotes from C.S. Lewis -
Extract from C.S. Lewis' book 'Mere Christianity':

My argument against God was that the universe seemed so cruel and unjust. But how had I got this idea of just and unjust? A man does not call a line crooked unless he has some idea of a straight line. What was I comparing this universe with when I called it unjust? If the whole show was bad and senseless from A to Z, so to speak, why did I, who was supposed to be part of the show, find myself in such a violent reaction against it?

A man feels wet when he falls into water, because man is not a water animal: a fish would not feel wet. Of course I could have given up my idea of justice by saying it was nothing but a private idea of my own. But if i did that, then my argument against God collapsed too–for the argument depended on saying the world was really unjust, not simply that it did not happen to please my fancies. Thus, in the very act of trying to prove that God did not exist - in other words, that the whole of reality was senseless - I found I was forced to assume that one part of reality - namely my idea of justice - was full of sense.

Consequently atheism turns out to be too simple. If the whole universe has no meaning, we should never have found out that it has no meaning: just as, if there were no light in the universe and therefore no creatures with eyes, we should never have know it was dark. Dark would be a word without meaning.

I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not because I see it, but because by it I see everything else. - C. S. Lewis

And this one by John Lennox from his book ‘God’s Undertaker’
Extract from John Lennox's book 'God's Undertaker':

In some quarters the very success of science has also lead to the idea that, because we can understand the mechanisms of the universe without bringing in God, we can safety conclude that there was no God who designed and created the universe in the first place.

However, such reasoning involves a logical fallacy, which we can illustrate as follows.

Take a Ford motor car. It is conceivable that someone from a remote part of the world, who was seeing one for the first time and who knew nothing about modern engineering, might imagine that there is a god (Mr Ford) inside the engine, making it go. He might further imagine that when the engine ran sweetly it was because Mr Ford liked him, and when it refused to go it was because Mr Ford disliked him. Of Course, if he were subsequently to study engineering and take the engine to pieces, he would discover that there is no Mr Ford inside it. neither would it take much intelligence for him to see that he did not need to introduce Mr Ford as an explanation for it’s working.

His Grasp of the impersonal principals of internal combustion would be altogether enough to explain how the engine works. So far, so good.

But if he then decided that his understanding of the principals of how the engine works made it impossible to believe in the existence of Mr Ford who designed the engine in the first place, this would be patently false - in philosophical terminology he would be committing a category mistake. Had there never been a Mr Ford to design the mechanisms, none would exist for him to understand.

It is likewise a category mistake to suppose that our understanding of the impersonal principals according to which the universe works makes it either unnecessary or impossible to believe in the existence of a personal creator who designed, made, and upholds the universe. In other words, we should not confuse the mechanisms by which the universe either with it’s cause or it’s upholder.

The basic issue here is that those of a scientific turn of mind like Atkins and Dawkins fail to distinguish between mechanism and agency.

When Sir Isaac Newton discovered the universal law of gravitation he did not say, “I have discovered a mechanism that accounts for planetary motion, therefore there is no agent God who designed it.” Quite the opposite, precisely because he understood how it worked, he was moved to increased admiration for the God who had designed it that way.

I would also like to encourage you to read the two books linked in my signature (Reason to Believe and Unseen), as they are very good I believe.

Mark 9:24
I believe; help my unbelief

Matthew 7:7
Search, and you will find.

I hope all of this has helped you

God Bless

Thank you for reading
Josh

 

[josh987654321]

I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not because I see it, but because by it I see everything else. - C. S. Lewis

I believe this quote is very good. As Jesus say’s in the Gospels, “Wisdom is vindicated by all her children.” Matthew 11:19

So the Atheist may try and prove to me that God doesn’t exist by becoming as cruel as nature, and I will prove that God does exist, by loving as God loves.

God Bless

Thank you for reading
Josh

 

[D0UBTFIRE]

I appreciate your responses. However, I don’t want the thread to turn into an atheist vs believer debate. I know there are some good arguments out there for both sides and I can look those up if I want. What I’m asking is - does anyone else feel this way? Is anyone else experiencing this or has in the past? How did you overcome it?

Some background might help. I was raised as a Jehovah’s Witness. I’ve always been very much into religiion, so when I was a JW I was very much into it. As a young teen I became staunchly athiest and was very much opposed to religion. Ten years later I converted to Christianity, then Catholicism. Here I am. I’ve read every argument in the book. I prefer being a believer. I think religion is good for people, good for society. Even Judaism and Islam and Buddhism. I think people who practice a faith sincerely are just better people overall, even if I think there are more historical truths in our Catholic faith than the others. I honestly have a profound respect for faith and spirituality and for sincerely held religious beliefs. But lately I just can’t shake the feeling that it’s all made up. I try to practice my faith despite that feeling, but it’s really been troubling me a lot lately so here I am looking for advice. But please, don’t tell me to pray or read because that I’ve done and it hasn’t helped. I’m looking for hope. I’m looking for someone to tell me, ‘‘been there, done that, and it all turned out fine in the end.’’

 

[ready]

Hello, I’m not sure if this makes sense, but I’ve been having so many doubts lately that I feel like a closet Atheist. I love the Church, I love Christianity, I love the idea of faith and spirituality, but most the time deep down I am unconvinced that there is anything more than the material. I tell God in prayer that I refuse to give up on my faith - I have to make a conscious choice constantly to say I do believe - but I feel like I’m lieing to myself. I stick with it (religioin) because I like it. But I hate feeling like this. Anyone else experience this?

Please keep making acts of faith. Keep giving your assent to faith, and understanding will follow. Understanding will follow says St. Augustine. God bless you.