Doubts regarding certain doctrines

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Hello,

I am a convert to the Catholic Church about one and half years ago. I originally was drawn to the history and traditions of the Church.

About 3 months ago I started questioning certain doctrines in the church. These doctrines are Purgatory, Papal Infallibility and Penance. There are a few other doctrines too, but these are the main ones I am doubting. I have talked to many people including my priest, and the best answer I can get is that I have to accept them based on the Church’s teaching authority.

I do not want to leave the Church, but I just can fully accept these doctrines. I still want to be in good standing in the Church. Can I remain in good standing in the Catholic Church and reject these doctrines?
 
I guess the question would be, why do you doubt them? If you were to reject certain teachings of the Church that would make you a “cafeteria Catholic”. It’s hard to be truly Catholic and not accept all doctrine as the absolute truth.

The Pope isn’t always infallable.

You can’t enter heaven if you are unclean, thus Purgatory is a state of purifcation on our way to heaven.

Lastly, you can’t walk with God if you aren’t filled with his grace, so reconciliation is needed to restore your grace if you’ve damaged it through venial sin, or rejected it by mortal sin. This is a way to keep our grace while we are here.
 
<< Can I remain in good standing in the Catholic Church and reject these doctrines? >>

“10,000 difficulties do not make one doubt.” Do you truly reject them, or have difficulty understanding or believing them? What is it about them you doubt? Do you doubt they were explicitly taught by the apostles? Same could be said of the 4th century fully-developed doctrine of the Trinity and the Person of Christ. My articles on some of them:

The Church Fathers on Purgatory

Whose Sins You Forgive: Confession and Penance in the Church Fathers

Primacy of Peter, Papacy, Apostolic Succession

Phil P
 
Hello,

I am a convert to the Catholic Church about one and half years ago. I originally was drawn to the history and traditions of the Church.

About 3 months ago I started questioning certain doctrines in the church. These doctrines are Purgatory, Papal Infallibility and Penance. There are a few other doctrines too, but these are the main ones I am doubting. I have talked to many people including my priest, and the best answer I can get is that I have to accept them based on the Church’s teaching authority.

I do not want to leave the Church, but I just can fully accept these doctrines. I still want to be in good standing in the Church. Can I remain in good standing in the Catholic Church and reject these doctrines?
I have doubts about some doctrines as well (including as least one on your list).

However, I always remember something a Jew said on a religious radio show over here - and that is “we all need a spiritual home and not a spiritual prison”. And that, to me, summed up exactly how I say my place in the Catholic Church - it’s my home and I love it for all sorts of reasons, but I’m not going to treat it like a prison that I can never step outside of. Sometimes I have had doubts about the existence of God, so worrying about specific doctrine is nothing in comparison to that. I also know that I can’t believe something just because someone says that I must - I have just never had that sort of faith.

Others may disagree Gumbercules - but I would encourage you to see the Church as your home and not your prison - don’t be too worried if you don’t agree with the rest of the family all of the time.

One last thought is that we all ultimately put our faith in God/Christ not in doctrine and dogma.

P.S. (on edit) One really last thought: if the Church only accepted those who never doubted any doctrine (and never ever doubted the existence of God) then I think it would be a very very small church indeed.
 
Hello,

I am a convert to the Catholic Church about one and half years ago. I originally was drawn to the history and traditions of the Church.

About 3 months ago I started questioning certain doctrines in the church. These doctrines are Purgatory, Papal Infallibility and Penance. There are a few other doctrines too, but these are the main ones I am doubting. I have talked to many people including my priest, and the best answer I can get is that I have to accept them based on the Church’s teaching authority.

I do not want to leave the Church, but I just can fully accept these doctrines. I still want to be in good standing in the Church. Can I remain in good standing in the Catholic Church and reject these doctrines?
To answer your main question, can you remain in good standing while rejecting these doctrines, the answer is no.
HOWEVER,
That is not to say you have to just accept a, “Because I said so”, sort of answer and then go on. If you have conserns about the doctrines it is your duty to investigate these things to the best of your ability and in prayerful obedience. You say that you have talked to many people about them, but have you read much on them. Have you looked them up in the Catachism and so forth.

The Church does indeed have the Teaching Authority and we are to accept what she teaches. But we are also charged with the correct formation of our own conscience by prayer, and by study.

I can say truthfully that there are doctrines in the Church that I too have concerns about. In my case I will read and question and try to “wrap my head around it”. If I can great. If I cannot then I simply accept it for the time being because I respect the teaching Authority of The Church much more than I respect my own “teaching authority”. I figure that, at present, God has not given me the grace to understand. Perhaps He will in the future. That is not for me to decide.

Also, you can bet that Ol’ Satan is just waiting for these doubts to creep in so he can build upon them and draw you away from the Body Blood Soul and diviinity of Christ in the Eucharist.

I know this rambles a bit but I hope it helps you some.

Peace
James
 
I see that Phil and James have already given you excellent answers. Anything I said would just be to reiterate what they have already offered. I just had to chime in (completely off-topic) and say I like your username (“Gumbercules? I love that guy!”) 😉
 
I guess the question would be, why do you doubt them? If you were to reject certain teachings of the Church that would make you a “cafeteria Catholic”. It’s hard to be truly Catholic and not accept all doctrine as the absolute truth.

The Pope isn’t always infallable.

You can’t enter heaven if you are unclean, thus Purgatory is a state of purifcation on our way to heaven.

Lastly, you can’t walk with God if you aren’t filled with his grace, so reconciliation is needed to restore your grace if you’ve damaged it through venial sin, or rejected it by mortal sin. This is a way to keep our grace while we are here.
I understand the doctrines quite well. Yes, I dont want to be a cafeteria Catholic, that would make me a hypocrite and a liar. However, I believe if the Church truly weeded out all those who reject at least one doctrine of the Catholic Faith, there would be almost no one left.

I dont see grace as something that’s injected into us. Or something that is lost by something we did.
 
<< Can I remain in good standing in the Catholic Church and reject these doctrines? >>

“10,000 difficulties do not make one doubt.” Do you truly reject them, or have difficulty understanding or believing them? What is it about them you doubt? Do you doubt they were explicitly taught by the apostles? Same could be said of the 4th century fully-developed doctrine of the Trinity and the Person of Christ. My articles on some of them:

The Church Fathers on Purgatory

Whose Sins You Forgive: Confession and Penance in the Church Fathers

Primacy of Peter, Papacy, Apostolic Succession

Phil P
No, I understand them quite well. And I understand what the Church teaches regarding them, and I disagree with the Church’s teachings.

I dont believe they were taught by the apostles. Maybe some early church fathers toyed around with the idea of purgatory, but it definitely was not universally accepted in the early church.
 
I see that Phil and James have already given you excellent answers. Anything I said would just be to reiterate what they have already offered. I just had to chime in (completely off-topic) and say I like your username (“Gumbercules? I love that guy!”) 😉
As strong as Hercules and as flexible as Gumby.
 
I am a convert too, and at first i had trouble with some of the doctrines so I started to get more knowledge on the Catholic religion…and I started to understand it and truly embrace my religion…try reading some good Catholic books as a start to understanding and acceptance of a beautiful religion…🙂
 
Gumb << I dont believe they were taught by the apostles. Maybe some early church fathers toyed around with the idea of purgatory, but it definitely was not universally accepted in the early church. >>

The argument that “X” was not universally accepted in the early church (meaning first or second century AD) is not a good one since you can apply that to the fully-developed doctrine of the Trinity and the 27-book NT canon. There was definitely not a universally accepted “one God in substance, nature, or essence with three co-eternal, co-equal Persons” (in those precise words) nor a 27-book NT in the “early church” (the Gospels were widely accepted, but at least 5 of the NT books were disputed, or not included, or not known).

I can agree there were no confessionals in the first century, there was no full-blown doctrine of papal infallibility of a "Pope ruling from Rome" in the NT, and that a third “place” or state of purgatory is not explicit in the teaching of Jesus or His apostles (unless you count “hades” or “sheol”). That does not cause me to doubt or have difficulty with these doctrines.

The basic foundations for these doctrines are found in the Bible (i.e. they are “biblical” in my opinion, see Dave Armstrong’s books and site Biblical Evidence for Catholicism). Prayers for the dead was a universally accepted practice by the 2nd century A.D., found in the book of Maccabees (2 Macc 12), and in the case of Onesiphorus in 2 Timothy (see this commentary just written yesterday by Dave Armstrong on his blog). There are also examples of “temporal punishments” for forgiven sin found in the Bible (2 Sam 12:13-14, there are others).

The explicit teaching of these doctrines as found in the Fathers became more clear over time. St. Augustine was of course most explicit on purgatory, but we have testimony before him:

ORIGEN: “It remains then that you be committed to the fire which will burn the light materials; for our God to those who can comprehend heavenly things is called a cleansing fire. But this fire consumes not the creature, but what the creature has himself built, wood, and hay and stubble. It is manifest that the fire destroys the wood of our transgressions and then returns to us the reward of our great works [cf. 1 Cor 3:10-15].”

CLEMENT OF ALEX: “The greatest torments, indeed, are assigned to the believer. For God’s righteousness is good, and His goodness is righteous. And though the punishments cease in the course of the completion of the expiation and purification of each one, yet those have very great and permanent grief who are found worthy of the other fold, on account of not being along with those that have been glorified through righteousness.”

CYRPIAN: “It is one thing to stand for pardon, another thing to attain to glory; it is one thing, when cast into prison [cf. Matt 5:26; 1 Peter 3:19], not to go out thence until one has paid the uttermost farthing; another thing at once to receive the wages of faith and courage. It is one thing, tortured by long suffering for sins, to be cleansed and long purged by fire; another to have purged all sins by suffering. It is one thing, in fine, to be in suspense till the sentence of God at the day of judgment; another to be at once crowned by the Lord.”

LACTANTIUS: “But also, when God will judge the just, it is likewise in fire that he will try them. At that time, they whose sins are uppermost, either because of their gravity or their number, will be drawn together by the fire and will be burned. Those, however, who have been imbued with full justice and maturity of virtue, will not feel that fire; for they have something of God in them which will repel and turn back the strength of the flame.”

CYRIL OF J: “Then we make mention also of those who have already fallen asleep: first, the patriarchs, prophets, Apostles, and martyrs, that through their prayers and supplications God would receive our petition; next, we make mention also of the holy fathers and bishops who have already fallen asleep, and, to put it simply, of all among us who have already fallen asleep; for we believe that it will be of very great benefit to the souls of those for whom the petition is carried up, while this holy and most solemn sacrifice [of the Mass] is laid out…For I know that there are many who are saying this: ‘If a soul departs from this world with sins, what does it profit it to be remembered in the prayer?’…[we] grant a remission of their penalties…we too offer prayers to Him for those who have fallen asleep though they be sinners. We do not plait a crown, but offer up Christ who has been sacrificed for our sins; and we thereby propitiate the benevolent God for them as well as for ourselves.”

I call that more than “toying” with the doctrine. It seems quite explicit when we move into the fourth century (the same century as Nicaea, Constantinople, and the canon of the NT was formalized).

Arguments Against Purgatory Considered (another good one)

Phil P
 
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