Downloading music illegally

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I think its pretty obvious this is stealing and wrong. However most of my friends and family members see nothing wrong with it. As a result I feel kind of stupid when people ask me why I paid for music and not just use Limewire or whatever.

I just want to know if there are people out there who use an ipod and pay for music. I’m not weird for doing this right? Just some reassurance :o
 
I used to do the same. I deleted all my illegal downloads from my mp3 player. You are totally right. This is stealing.
 
So I don’t come off as judging people, I say that I really love the itunes interface, and that its what I’ve always used. If you feel weird paying for music, me, I just am happy to pay, because I want to give money to the artists that I love. Then when I see them in concert I can know that I am proud supporter of their music, especially when they thank all their fans for buying the album. I’d feel so sad if my favorite artists thanked me, if I knew I had stolen their music.
 
If you don’t want to get into an open argument over it here are some ways to answer why you pay for music:
  • “Dude, I don’t want to get sued by the RIAA!”
  • “It’s too much of a hassle to scour torrents for music”
  • “I think iTunes has higher quality recordings.”
  • “It’s only 99 cents!”
  • “There are a lot of nasty viruses out there, especially on torrent networks.”
 
When I first got an iPod I paid all of my music and then there was this techno song that I couldn’t get anywhere but Limewire and I liked that song so much that I downloaded Limewire (bad idea) and then I started using that for all of my music. I don’t think it’s “weird” to pay for your music, but even if it is what does that matter? What is popular is not always right and what is right is not always popular. My priest told me I should raise up money equal to the amount I stole in music and donate it to charity (about $1,000). That’s a lot harder than just paying for your music right then and there, don’t you think? If they ask you why you pay for your music rather than download illegally tell them the truth “It’s stealing and stealing is wrong.”
 
First of all, I think that a different model needs to be developed for music distribution in these days. When I look at the money that flows to artists and, more significantly, to the recording industry, it absolutely makes me sick. When combined with the industry’s vigor in enforcement, well, I have a hard time feeling sorry for their losses.

Ever go to a restaurant? Do you ever hear them sing the traditional “Happy Birthday” song any more? They can’t, because it is controlled under copyright (owned by Warner/Chappell Music) – they have to get a license to perform it (the song generates about $2M per year in royalties).

Having said that

The recordings are the intellectual property of the artists. Procuring a copy of that recording without paying the artist a fair price for that intellectual property is, absolutely, theft. Sorry, but that’s the way it is.

As I said, I think it is outrageous how the system is set up and the amount of money it generates, resulting in generating some of the highest salaries in the country (people complain about CEO salaries all the time, but never a peep about how much dough Madonna, Beyonce, or Lady GaGa generate). But until that happens, you are stuck paying what they want…if you want to listen to their music legally.

(You should look into Rhapsody…btw)
 
PrayHarder said:
If you don’t want to get into an open argument over it here are some ways to answer why you pay for music:
  • “Dude, I don’t want to get sued by the RIAA!”
  • “It’s too much of a hassle to scour torrents for music”
  • “I think iTunes has higher quality recordings.”
  • “It’s only 99 cents!”
  • “There are a lot of nasty viruses out there, especially on torrent networks.”
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These are great but for me the #1 answer would be…“I hate getting computer viruses” which those music torrent sites are well know to spread.

But I think the best would be to stand up for what you believe in and for the truth.

When asked tell them you do not steal.
 
ByzCath said:
These are great but for me the #1 answer would be…“I hate getting computer viruses” which those music torrent sites are well know to spread.

But I think the best would be to stand up for what you believe in and for the truth.

When asked tell them you do not steal.
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I would have to say a good 80-90% of all the virus removals I do in a week are from limewire/bearshare, etc.

You’ll end up paying for that stolen music anyway, for what I charge an hour to do a virus removal 😃

A buck a song is not a lot to pay for in iTunes and it’s legal.
 
Well think of it like this…
Its against the law. And if you are going against the law, I’m sure jesus would see that as wrong. But due to the fact that the chances of you getting caught are so slim, people do not see it as wrong. I use limewire, and yes, I do know its illegal. But so is speeding. Ever went 5 MPH over the limit? Its sorta equivalent to that.
 
BlueShadow123 said:
Well think of it like this…
Its against the law. And if you are going against the law, I’m sure jesus would see that as wrong. But due to the fact that the chances of you getting caught are so slim, people do not see it as wrong. I use limewire, and yes, I do know its illegal. But so is speeding. Ever went 5 MPH over the limit? Its sorta equivalent to that.
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No it is not. Stealing is taking something that belongs to someone else without compensating them for their work.

Speeding is risking your life, as well as that of others, but it does not take money out of people’s pockets.

Theft is a mortal sin.
 
ByzCath said:
No it is not. Stealing is taking something that belongs to someone else without compensating them for their work.

Speeding is risking your life, as well as that of others, but it does not take money out of people’s pockets.

Theft is a mortal sin.
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Uhm, i was not comparing the two in relation to eachother, I was comparing them in a way saying they are BOTH against the law.
 
ByzCath said:
Theft is a mortal sin.
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Let’s go back and review the three qualifications for a sin to be mortal:
  • Full knowledge: While most people should know better, not everyone realizes that downloading music off the net is wrong. For some it’s like, “cool, there’s this program that lets me get the songs I want!” They aren’t aware of all the legal ramifications. To many, a program like LimeWire is no different than grooveshark, pandora, last.fm, etc.
  • Full Consent: Ok, no one is probably putting a gun to their head.
  • Grave Matter: Sorry, but I don’t think illegally downloading a song instead of paying a buck is a grave matter.
Are they committing a sin? Yes. Is it something to confess? Yes. Is it something they should stop? Yes. Is it mortal? I’m not so sure.
 
PrayHarder said:
Let’s go back and review the three qualifications for a sin to be mortal:
  • Full knowledge: While most people should know better, not everyone realizes that downloading music off the net is wrong. For some it’s like, “cool, there’s this program that lets me get the songs I want!” They aren’t aware of all the legal ramifications. To many, a program like LimeWire is no different than grooveshark, pandora, last.fm, etc.
  • Full Consent: Ok, no one is probably putting a gun to their head.
  • Grave Matter: Sorry, but I don’t think illegally downloading a song instead of paying a buck is a grave matter.
Are they committing a sin? Yes. Is it something to confess? Yes. Is it something they should stop? Yes. Is it mortal? I’m not so sure.
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Right, from the Catechism of the Catholic Church…
1859 Mortal sin requires full knowledge and complete consent. It presupposes knowledge of the sinful character of the act, of its opposition to God’s law. It also implies a consent sufficiently deliberate to be a personal choice. Feigned ignorance and hardness of heart do not diminish, but rather increase, the voluntary character of a sin.
But do not forget, illegally downloading music is theft and theft is a violation of the 7th commandment, which is grave matter.
2450 “You shall not steal” (Ex 20:15; Deut 5:19). “Neither thieves, nor the greedy . . ., nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God” (1 Cor 6:10).
2451 The seventh commandment enjoins the practice of justice and charity in the administration of earthly goods and the fruits of men’s labor.
2452 The goods of creation are destined for the entire human race. The right to private property does not abolish the universal destination of goods.
2453 The seventh commandment forbids theft. Theft is the usurpation of another’s goods against the reasonable will of the owner.

Now you can, as paragraph 1859 says, “Feigned ignorance and hardness of heart do not diminish, but rather increase, the voluntary character of a sin.”

Which seems to be the game you want to play, it is also called moral relativism, which goes against the Church’s Teachings, but it makes it even worse as it increases the voluntary character of the sin, which means it fulfills all three…
    • Full Knowledge: You know it is theft
    • Full Consent: You are chosing to do so
    • Grave Matter: It violates the 7th Commandment
    The only way around this is to someone get by Full Knowledge as you say in your post but today for someone to claim that with the RIAA and all the news about the RIAA sueing individuals and Universities actually making it so such software that is used to steal music does not work through their networks, and the curriculum at our High Schools today (I am a teacher at a Catholic Highschool in the Career and Technology Department) there is no way that the average person can not know that downloading copyrighted music is illegal except for through “feigned ignorance” or “hardness of heart”.
 
ByzCath said:
Right, from the Catechism of the Catholic Church…
1859 Mortal sin requires full knowledge and complete consent. It presupposes knowledge of the sinful character of the act, of its opposition to God’s law. It also implies a consent sufficiently deliberate to be a personal choice. Feigned ignorance and hardness of heart do not diminish, but rather increase, the voluntary character of a sin.
But do not forget, illegally downloading music is theft and theft is a violation of the 7th commandment, which is grave matter.
2450 “You shall not steal” (Ex 20:15; Deut 5:19). “Neither thieves, nor the greedy . . ., nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God” (1 Cor 6:10).
2451 The seventh commandment enjoins the practice of justice and charity in the administration of earthly goods and the fruits of men’s labor.
2452 The goods of creation are destined for the entire human race. The right to private property does not abolish the universal destination of goods.
2453 The seventh commandment forbids theft. Theft is the usurpation of another’s goods against the reasonable will of the owner.

Now you can, as paragraph 1859 says, “Feigned ignorance and hardness of heart do not diminish, but rather increase, the voluntary character of a sin.”

Which seems to be the game you want to play, it is also called moral relativism, which goes against the Church’s Teachings, but it makes it even worse as it increases the voluntary character of the sin, which means it fulfills all three…

  1. *]Full Knowledge: You know it is theft
    *]Full Consent: You are chosing to do so
    *]Grave Matter: It violates the 7th Commandment

    The only way around this is to someone get by Full Knowledge as you say in your post but today for someone to claim that with the RIAA and all the news about the RIAA sueing individuals and Universities actually making it so such software that is used to steal music does not work through their networks, and the curriculum at our High Schools today (I am a teacher at a Catholic Highschool in the Career and Technology Department) there is no way that the average person can not know that downloading copyrighted music is illegal except for through “feigned ignorance” or “hardness of heart”.
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  1. I think we can both agree that going to Confession is a good idea whether it is venial or mortal. After a good Confession it won’t matter what it was. 🙂
 
PrayHarder said:
I think we can both agree that going to Confession is a good idea whether it is venial or mortal. After a good Confession it won’t matter what it was. 🙂
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As long as you do not plan on doing it again.

If you go to confession to get this sin off your soul but with the intention of continuing the practice then no, it does not work.

If the priest is aware of this he is to deny absolution.
 
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