Dr. Scott Hahn’s “The Fourth Cup”

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Is anyone here familiar with this work? We are using the audio talk tonight as part of our RCIA. Holy Week seems a fitting time for this.
 
Dr. Scott Hahn is one of the greatest scholars and apologists in the entire English speaking Catholic world, and he’s also a living Saint, IMO. I HIGHLY encourage you to read any of his works - there Orthodoxy is unsurpassed and are exemplars of erudition.
 
This just seems a fitting way to wrap up RCIA before the Triduum. This Lenten season has been special. Two weeks ago yesterday I stood in the Papal Basilica of St. John Lateran. One of the prominently displayed relics was the table top from the upper room. I usually don’t get too excited over relics, but this one sent chills.
 
I’m currently reading it. It’s an amazing book, comparable to (perhaps surpassing) The Lamb’s Supper. I often wish my parish would give his books out one year instead of what we currently do.
 
You will enjoy it.
A most excellent talk / book

Fourth Cup talk By Scott Hahn,
Listen or Download
Original Talk, My favorite version



EWTN Bookmark
Each version of talk is a little bit different, but always good.
Here Scott Hahn talks about the history of the talk and new book.
Excellent
EWTN BOOKMARK - 03/25/2018 - THE FOURTH CUP
In “The Fourth Cup,” Dr. Scott Hahn highlights the link between the Eucharist and the Passover meal, and how this connection symbolically parallels the Last Supper and Christ’s death on Calvary. Hosted by Doug Keck.
Download the file
BOO02927.mp3
http://www.ewtn.com/se/ts/DatService.svc/feed/BOO.xml

LightHouse CD


Text
See
http://zuserver2.star.ucl.ac.uk/~vgg/rc/aplgtc/hahn/m4/4cp.html

On the web page above you must shrink the width of the browser down to two thirds size to get rid of Blue Bar.

Hunt for the Fourth Cup
Scott Hahn September 01, 1991


https://avemariaradio.net/audio-archive/kresta-afternoon-february-21-2018-hour-1/
Kresta in the Afternoon - February 21, 2018 - Hour 1 - Ave Maria Radio : Ave Maria Radio.
Click on the phrase Download Now under the word Share. Free MP3 talk by Scott Hahn. Go forward to 21 minutes and 12. seconds to begin. And then skip commercial from 34 minutes to 38 minutes. Scott Hahn has come out with his new book the Fourth Cup based on an old talk

New Book
The Fourth Cup: Unveiling the Mystery of the Last Supper and the Cross Hardcover – February 20, 2018


A must read for Lent and Easter! From the bestselling author of The Lamb’s Supper and Signs of Life comes an illuminating work on the Catholic Eucharist and its link to the Jewish Passover meal. In th …

4.8 out of 5 stars, ISBN: 978-1524758790, Image, February 20, 2018, $15.31
 
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Just an update. This was a huge success. In 59 minutes, Dr. Hahn summarized and encapsulated the fullness of our Catholic faith. This talk has become the go-to climax of RCIA.
 
I told you Dr. Hahn was incredible.

The man’s both a world class scholar and a saint. It’s a privilege to be taught by him.
 
Oh I’ve been reading Hahn for years. My only concern was that it might be too intense for newcomers. My fears were unfounded. They were enthralled with the depth of thought and study Dr. Hahn puts into his works.
 
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JohnR77 said:
Fourth Cup talk By Scott Hahn,

Listen or Download

Original Talk, My favorite version

https://stpaulcenter.com/the-fourth-cup/
Click to expand...
If you are accessing the web page above from a cell phone, you have to turn it sideways to get the “Download” hyperlink to show up.

I suggest to anyone interested that they listen to this talk about seven times so that you can learn about 80% of what Dr. Scott Hahn is saying. Nobody is going to get it all the first time through.

The importance of this talk cannot be overstated. Dr. Hahn briefly alludes to why it is so important, but most people need a little more explanation.

Many Protestants assume and assert that the “It” in
“It is finished.” means that they are saved completely, now. They will often claim this passage proves faith alone.

And that in regards to their salvation there is now, no longer a need for them to obey, to do good works, to suffer, or to attend a particular Church, or to get the Sacraments, etc.

When other Scripture passages that argue the exception to their above stated assumptions are presented to these Protestants, they just go back to Jesus’ claim, “It is finished.” And they claim that this proves they are right.

" Jesus said so ! "

So, the Catholic needs to promote, at least the plausibility that “It” doesn’t mean what they just assumed it means. Of course, Scott Hahn goes way beyond making just a plausible argument. I believe he has proved his case.

I suggest you consider sharing the above links with your fellow RCIA Catechumens or Candidates for Confirmation.

Thanks for reading.
John
 
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Scott Hahn’s explanation of the 4th Cup is interesting, but it’s only one explanation.

In 3 of the 4 Gospels, where does Jesus himself say that he will drink the 4th Cup?

–Matthew 26:29 “I tell you, from now on I shall not drink this fruit of the vine until the day when I drink it with you new in the kingdom of my father”

– Mark 14:25 says the same thing… He will not drink it until he drinks it With Us in the Kingdom of the father.

– Luke’s version in chapter 22:17-20 is very, very interesting because verse 17 says “Then he took a cup, gave thanks and said, ‘take this and share it among yourselves; for I tell you that from this time on I shall not drink of the fruit of the vine until the kingdom of God comes.’ Then he took the bread, said the blessing , broke it and gave it to them, saying, ‘This is my body, which will be given for you; do this in memory of me. And likewise the cup after they had eaten, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which will be shed for you.’” The Cup after dinner is the 3rd cup–the Cup of Salvation. So this version shows Jesus making the statement about not drinking another cup, and then shows him taking another cup.

The Gospel of John does not have an account of this. So in all 3 gospels Jesus tells us where he will drink the 4th cup—when he drinks it anew with us in the Kingdom of God. Was Jesus wrong about this?

I find it unusual that Dr. Hahn does not speak about the origins of the 4 Passover Cups.
They come from Exodus 6:6-7 and they are referred to as “The Four I Wills”
  1. I Will free you from the forced Labor of the Egyptians
  2. I Will deliver you from their slavery
  3. I Will redeem you with an outstretched arm
  4. I Will take you as my own people
The 3rd Cup is called the Cup of Redemption, it is drunk after the Passover meal is finished, and in the Christian interpretation, represents Jesus Redeeming us with an outstretched arm (his arms upon the cross). It is the cup he gives us as his Blood.

The fourth cup is taken afterwards and it is called The Cup of Praise. It is this cup which represents God taking us to be his people. So here is where another interpretation of the Fourth Cup comes in. Where does Jesus say he will drink this fourth cup? Anew with us in the Kingdom of God. He said this in all three Gospel accounts.

Here is a good website from a Messianic Jewish viewpoint which says that the 4th cup hasn’t been fulfilled yet. And that it will be fulfilled at “The Supper of The Lamb” when we indeed drink in the cup with Jesus just as he promised. After his 2nd coming.
http://messiahalive.com/passover4cups.htm

As Scott Hahn himself said of his own teaching in one of the above quoted transcripts,
“Some scholars might dispute this. You can’t find all Scripture scholars agreeing on anything these days, so I don’t lose much sleep over the fact that there might be some scripture scholars who dispute this point.”
Click to expand...
 
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I am guessing here that, Autumn-Smoke, you’ve only read through the transcript three or four times. Jesus drinks the fourth cup on the cross. Of all the apostles only John was the eyewitness to his crucifixion. And it is John who recordes that Jesus drank the fourth cup when the hyssop branch was raised to his lips on the cross. So in some mysterious way God’s kingdom was made present at Jesus’s death. Perhaps we too will drink of the fourth cup at the wedding Feast of the Lamb at the end of the world. I remember in one of Scott Hahn’s talks he talks about how some Protestant Christian who became an atheist complained that Jesus promised us a kingdom but all we got was the Church. So perhaps faith is needed to accept it all. Don’t you think?
 
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I must admit to only reading it through once. I was, however, drawing on my own 20 + years experience in Messianic Judaism and doing many teachings on the Passover and helping to host several Messianic Passovers. So, I would say that I am not clueless in the area.

I wanted to share another opinion for consideration and would wonder if you or anyone else would want to read the link I provided and to give it a thought.

Scott Hahn himself said, as I quoted, that there would be biblical scholars who would disagree with him. So he himself, I think, is saying that he is not infallible.

His opinion is interesting and I am not totally disregarding it, or what you have mentioned above.
 
The beauty of Biblical interpretation is that it is not always an “either or” situation, but sometimes a “both and” one. There are always layers in the depths of the Word of God. 😉 I think, here there is room for both interpretations from their respective viewpoints.
 
Hahn is a master at his craft of study and teaching. It’ll be well worth your time.
 
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