DRAMATIC decline forces 'clusters' in Ireland; dioceses considers increased lay 'role'

[larousser]

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**Thursday, April 2nd, 2009 **

Link to original

Two of the country’s four archdioceses, Tuam and Armagh, are about to take radical initiatives to cope with the fall in the number of working clergy.

Archbishop Michael Neary is expected to issue a pastoral letter in the coming weeks setting out how he proposes to address the implications of the rapid drop in the number of priests in his Tuam archdiocese.

Dr Neary is said to be considering the findings of a working group of five priests who did a detailed study of the clerical manpower needs in Tuam in the years ahead.

The group is recommending a much expanded role for lay people and the deployment of deacons to handle weddings, baptisms and funerals.

The archbishop is set to issue a pastoral letter outlining to the people of Tuam the extent of their archdiocese’s priest number crisis and setting out a strategy to deal with it.
**
The extent of the problem Dr Neary faces is underlined by the fact that the average age of priests in his archdiocese is now 62 and the staggering prediction that in a mere four years, the number of working priests will fall by a third from 102 to 70.**

Meanwhile, the priest shortage in the Armagh archdiocese will shortly lead to the clustering of adjacent parishes and the dropping of some Masses in the Dungannon area.

Cardinal Seán Brady has said parishes would have to join forces to ease workloads and increase the level of lay participation in the running of the church.

Dungannon and the nearby Donaghmore and Pomeroy parishes are to be grouped, while Coalisland will join Clonoe and Ardboe. and Killeeshil, Aughnacloy, Eglish and Moy parishes will all form clusters.

Meetings have been held in the parishes to discuss the strategy and consider how parishioners can best be encouraged to become more involved in the work of the Church.

The cardinal recently said the Church has to adapt if it is to continue to carry on the mission of Christ effectively.

He envisages that clustered parishes will share resources like programmes, personnel, gifts and talents.

“I want to emphasise that our purpose is the strengthening of each parish in its mission of making Christ known and attending to pastoral needs,” he said.

"Each parish will maintain its own identity - we will not be merging parishes or amalgamating parishes,” he stressed.

70 per cent of the 138 priests serving in the archdiocese are over fifty years of age.

 

[larousser]

Please contact His Grace the Archbishop of Tuam Michael Neary to register your opposition to these proposals:

Archbishop’s House, Tuam, Co Galway Ireland.

e-mail : archdiocesetuam@eircom.net

 

[CatholicChick]

Please pray for our young people all over the world, that they answer the Lord’s call to vocations.

 

[Lujack]

Please contact His Grace the Archbishop of Tuam Michael Neary to register your opposition to these proposals:

Archbishop’s House, Tuam, Co Galway Ireland.

e-mail : archdiocesetuam@eircom.net

Your alternative would be what? Can the Archbishop create more priests out of thin air?

 

[dixibehr]

Please contact His Grace the Archbishop of Tuam Michael Neary to register your opposition to these proposals:

Archbishop’s House, Tuam, Co Galway Ireland.

e-mail : archdiocesetuam@eircom.net

No sense in opposing the Abp’s plan if you’re not willing to offer yourself to him as a candidate for the priesthood of his juridiction.

Unless, of course, you have an alternative.

 

[I_Believe]

zenit.org/article-25551?l=english

A ray of hope.

 

[Ockham]

An increase in lay person participation will only contribute to the decline. How are young people supposed to be drawn to the clergy when priestless Masses become the norm? The better solution is to reverse the trends that contributed to the decline - the spirit of Vatican II.

 

[paperwight]

An increase in lay person participation will only contribute to the decline. How are young people supposed to be drawn to the clergy when priestless Masses become the norm? The better solution is to reverse the trends that contributed to the decline - the spirit of Vatican II.

‘Priestless Masses’?

What on earth are you talking about?

 

[Ockham]

Sorry, I mis-spoke. Sunday Celebrations In Absence of A Priest I believe was invented to cover a last minute emergency but is starting to become the norm in some dioceses.

usccbpublishing.org/productdetails.cfm?PC=737

Of course the usual suspects are perfectly fine with this development, saying all the right things, but actively participating in this latest breakdown of our Church.

 

[dixibehr]

Sorry, I mis-spoke. Sunday Celebrations In Absence of A Priest I believe was invented to cover a last minute emergency but is starting to become the norm in some dioceses.

usccbpublishing.org/productdetails.cfm?PC=737

Of course the usual suspects are perfectly fine with this development, saying all the right things, but actively participating in this latest breakdown of our Church.

So–are you saying that no Sunday service at all is preferable to what the USCCB is suggesting as a stopgap?

 

[palmas85]

Having lived in an area that did not have a permanent Priest assigned and where lay and religious sister led liturgies were the norm I can tell you at least in many cases it is a very very bad idea.

The reason, simple. The laity by and large do not have the theological knowledge to carry out such a thing. Reflections, which take the place of sermons in these events, are usually hobbled together from various sources, reflect little if any theological thought and are often nothing more than Dr Phil or Oprah style feel good symposiums. A Deacon is is a poor poor substitute for a Priest in most cases. I am sorry to say that but it is true regardless as to what they will tel you about the ancient and venerable position itself. It is not now what it was then. Often there is the perceived need to make these services more relevent to the community and since they are not the Mass, why not experiment? Why not bring in non Catholic and even non Christian speakers so that we can all be more enlightened and spiritually developed? Lets move past the constraints of the ordained priesthood and let the priesthood of the people reign:thumbsup:

The services led by religious sisters, at least the ones that I went to:bigyikes:, were sacriligious and blasphemous in the highest degree and included all manner of heretical teachings and in some cases out and out paganism thinly disguised as Catholicism.

No, the better option in my opinion is simple. If you only have enough Priests for one mass a month, then have one Mass a month. I know that flies directly in the face of the mentality these days where everyone, (yeah I know 30% of those registered in the parish, isn’t everyone but hey you can’t have everything), goes every week and receives every time you walk though the Church doors, but as far as I am concerned it is a much better option than attending these communion services.

Now, I know that there are some communion services that are done well and are perfectly fine. In my opinion though they are few and far between and in all honesty in most cases serve no real purpose whatsoever.

And remember for those that will bring up the Sunday and Holy Day obligation. If there is no Mass offered there is no requirement to attend.

Don’t get me wrong. If you have enough Priests for masses every day and every week it is outstanding. If you don’t have them re organize the schedule. Reception every day or even every week is not required. Remember that many saints in history received only several times a year and they managed just fine.

 

[Ockham]

So–are you saying that no Sunday service at all is preferable to what the USCCB is suggesting as a stopgap?

Yes.

Check the history books. Regular Sunday Mass has not always been the norm or so readily accessible as we’ve grown used to. Yet, the Church flourished unlike what it’s doing today.

Allowing these ‘celebrations’ will destroy what’s already a weakened Church. The NO Mass was not written to be what it has devolved into so the chances of these services staying true to the book is remote at best.

 

[larousser]

Having lived in an area that did not have a permanent Priest assigned and where lay and religious sister led liturgies were the norm I can tell you at least in many cases it is a very very bad idea.

The reason, simple. The laity by and large do not have the theological knowledge to carry out such a thing. Reflections, which take the place of sermons in these events, are usually hobbled together from various sources, reflect little if any theological thought and are often nothing more than Dr Phil or Oprah style feel good symposiums. A Deacon is is a poor poor substitute for a Priest in most cases. I am sorry to say that but it is true regardless as to what they will tel you about the ancient and venerable position itself. It is not now what it was then. Often there is the perceived need to make these services more relevent to the community and since they are not the Mass, why not experiment? Why not bring in non Catholic and even non Christian speakers so that we can all be more enlightened and spiritually developed? Lets move past the constraints of the ordained priesthood and let the priesthood of the people reign:thumbsup:

The services led by religious sisters, at least the ones that I went to:bigyikes:, were sacriligious and blasphemous in the highest degree and included all manner of heretical teachings and in some cases out and out paganism thinly disguised as Catholicism.

No, the better option in my opinion is simple. If you only have enough Priests for one mass a month, then have one Mass a month. I know that flies directly in the face of the mentality these days where everyone, (yeah I know 30% of those registered in the parish, isn’t everyone but hey you can’t have everything), goes every week and receives every time you walk though the Church doors, but as far as I am concerned it is a much better option than attending these communion services.

Now, I know that there are some communion services that are done well and are perfectly fine. In my opinion though they are few and far between and in all honesty in most cases serve no real purpose whatsoever.

And remember for those that will bring up the Sunday and Holy Day obligation. If there is no Mass offered there is no requirement to attend.

Don’t get me wrong. If you have enough Priests for masses every day and every week it is outstanding. If you don’t have them re organize the schedule. Reception every day or even every week is not required. Remember that many saints in history received only several times a year and they managed just fine.

This is my point. I’m not opposing clusters, but I object to the notion of an increased lay role on the altar, which is actually counter-productive.

Should it come to the stage that I am unable to unattend Mass for lack of priests in my area and should the bishop arrange for some ‘lay-service’ or ‘ministry of the word’ to replace Mass on Sundays in my area, I will never attend them. There is no obligation to attend non-Mass ‘services’.

 

[I_Believe]

An increase in lay person participation will only contribute to the decline. How are young people supposed to be drawn to the clergy when priestless Masses become the norm? The better solution is to reverse the trends that contributed to the decline - the spirit of Vatican II.

 

[Hesychios]

…- the spirit of Vatican II.

I think that this is a dead horse.

The problems are much bigger than anything you can blame on the Council.

First, everyone has to look in the mirror.

Look around you, how many cars boats and motorcycles do you and your neighbors have? Electric garage door openers, microwave ovens, plasma televisions with theatre sound?

How do we feel when there is a power failure? Are we bummed out?

In the neighborhood…
How many offspring in Law School?

How many offspring going for their Masters in Business?

How many people cheat on their taxes?

Let’s face it, this is a greedy, self-centered materialistic consumer culture. We are looking to put our kids into the best Business Schools if we can manage it. Everyone is waiting for the neighbor’s family to contribute the priest’s that will marry our attorney sons to their Country Club brides and bury us later.

Ireland has seen a remarkable change in it’s prospects since it joined the EU, the economy improved greatly. Poland is now showing signs of the same changes, maybe a decade behind Ireland on the curve.

Vatican Council II is not the problem…we are the problem. This whole society, which encompasses a great deal more than your church or mine, is the problem.

Very telling that the second article mentioned that the economic crises may be contribution to the rise in baptism and conversions. Yes, in a troubled life people turn to God.

What happens when things turn around?

 

[ProVobis]

Can. 1248.1 The obligation of assisting at Mass is satisfied wherever Mass is celebrated in a catholic rite either on a holyday itself or on the evening of the previous day.

Can. 1248.2 If it is impossible to assist at a eucharistic celebration, either because no sacred minister is available or for some other grave reason, the faithful are strongly recommended to take part in a liturgy of the Word, if there be such in the parish church or some other sacred place, which is celebrated in accordance with the provisions laid down by the diocesan Bishop; or to spend an appropriate time in prayer, whether personally or as a family or, as occasion presents, in a group of families.

 

[Ockham]

I think that this is a dead horse.

The problems are much bigger than anything you can blame on the Council.

First, everyone has to look in the mirror.

I share many of your societal observations and have a few more including our addiction to the sports and enteratinment industry.

While there are several factors contributing to the decline in seminarians, the ‘spirit of Vatican II’ is one we can actually work on. Pope Benedict XVI has spoken clearly on the misinterpretations of coucil documents.

There is a clear correlation between the Church’s decline and Vatican II. The NO Mass was not required nor shares the four marks of the Church. Others have stated that the years after a council are often chaotic and we’ve definitely lived through that.

With the serenity prayer in mind, what we can control is the proper interpreation of council documents and a restoration of the Tridentine Mass. If we ask our priest for one Latin Mass a week I suspect an increase in seminarians and faith in general.