Drawn to Gregorian Chant. Does it make me a Traditionalist?

[bryan123459]

The Chant is the best thing I ever discovered. I really need it, but in my diocese, it’s very hard to find a Church where it is sung… Except for the Traditionalist one.

I thought about studying Latin again… .It might help me solve the mystery.

Good news is around the corner: the new English Sacramentary/Missal, which is in the approval process, includes all Gregorian chants for the Mass liturgical cycle in an excellent new English-language, modern music notation format. Finally, Gregorian chant will once again become widely available. Can’t wait!

 

[jeanne71350]

Hello everyone…

I have no identity at the moment.
I don’t feel in communion with these Youth groups with tomtoms, guitars and all that stuff… It doesn’t help me pray at all.

I feel drawn to the Gregorian Chant. It lifts up my soul, I really need it, it’s **within **me. I often dream about becoming kind of a nun who’s a choirmistress playing the organ, and so on.

I need the Chant so much for my soul that I’m part of a choir in a Traditionalist Church.
But the problem is that I don’t feel in communion with them. Tridentine Mass is somehow tough for me, I’m not used to it. I’m very drawn and attracted because everything is Gregorian, and at the same time I need to take communion with my hands, I need Paul VI’s mass.

Does the attraction for Latin and Gregorian makes me a Traditionalist? What do you think?

I adore Gregorian Chant and Traditional Catholic music.

But I’m also a rock n roll child.

-Jeanne

 

[ibkc]

Good news is around the corner: the new English Sacramentary/Missal, which is in the approval process, includes all Gregorian chants for the Mass liturgical cycle in an excellent new English-language, modern music notation format. Finally, Gregorian chant will once again become widely available. Can’t wait!

Let’s hope that many parishes decide to take advantage of this gift, and to not continue to ignore it in favor of Marty Haugen and the St. Louis Jesuits.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Hello everyone…

I have no identity at the moment.
I don’t feel in communion with these Youth groups with tomtoms, guitars and all that stuff… It doesn’t help me pray at all.

I feel drawn to the Gregorian Chant. It lifts up my soul, I really need it, it’s **within **me. I often dream about becoming kind of a nun who’s a choirmistress playing the organ, and so on.

I need the Chant so much for my soul that I’m part of a choir in a Traditionalist Church.
But the problem is that I don’t feel in communion with them. Tridentine Mass is somehow tough for me, I’m not used to it. I’m very drawn and attracted because everything is Gregorian, and at the same time I need to take communion with my hands, I need Paul VI’s mass.

Does the attraction for Latin and Gregorian makes me a Traditionalist? What do you think?

I’d have to say… no.
I am far from anything close to the label Traditionalist and would probably make an enemy out of a great deal with them given my disinterest in modesty, deliberate lack of piety, attraction towards violence, and my rather foul mouth.

Regardless, Gregorian Chant is the one type of music that makes my mind go medieval. Yeah… paladins, priests, holy powers. I have not heard of any other piece of music that could help me imagine such things so well as Gregorian Chant.

Gospel music on the other hand… well, let’s just say I don’t often find the need to imagine southern, small-town settings.

 

[Bebekoualy]

Good news is around the corner: the new English Sacramentary/Missal, which is in the approval process, includes all Gregorian chants for the Mass liturgical cycle in an excellent new English-language, modern music notation format. Finally, Gregorian chant will once again become widely available. Can’t wait!

Er, I love the Chant, especially with its square notes! :heaven:
I can’t explain why… There’s something in the melody, in the way you follow the rhythm with your finger on the score. And that type of song, you can find it in every country. It does unify.
When I went to England from France, I went to an English monastery, and I wasn’t fond of the different songs there was until I began to know them. I felt different when I went to a Benedictine convent with the traditional songs (gloria, sanctus, etc) and I felt more at home. :bible1:

It’s just that Gregorian Chant is despised in my parish, and I feel awful about it. :imsorry:
People think I’m weird when I say I attend Tridentine Mass. WHY??? :nope: I mean, it’s the same God!!! I don’t see what’s wrong with that. Traditionalists are often pushed aside! Because they say mass in Latin, because women are separated from men in convents… “they’re too integrist”, I hear all the time. Why does it bother people that I go at least once a month to Tridentine Mass?

 

[brotherhrolf]

All through my undergrad and grad days, I studied with Gregorian Chant in the background. I am a calligrapher/illuminator as well and play Gregorian Chant when I am working. Chant “stills” me and I am better able to concentrate.

Unfortunately, this does not make you a traditionalist.

 

[Bebekoualy]

All right. I think it’s clearer now. :yup:

 

[MikeDunphy]

What troubles me in the Tridentine Mass is the difficulty to follow, as I don’t understand orisons and so on. So my nose is buried in my missal. I don’t pray well enough. Probably because I’m not used to it at all.

Like Harrison said, its ok to sometimes put your missal down, and observe, and pray. It does get easier to follow along with practice, too.

I’m just scared of becoming a Traditionalist because I don’t want to look like an integrist. I’m not saying that Traditionalists are fundamentalists (d’you say “integrists”?), of course. But many people think so, and I don’t want to be labelled.

Just give God the best worship you can offer Him, and don’t worry too much about the labels.

I thought about studying Latin again… .It might help me solve the mystery.

I’m sure knowing some Latin would help.

 

[MonFrere]

Bebe,

I am a musician by profession so I am naturally attracted to the great music of the Catholic liturgical tradition. I own many CD’s of this music and IMO there is no doubt of its spiritual benefit to our inner peace of soul and mind. I “use” this music for that very reason.

I also do not have any inner need that seems to compel some to the traditional Latin Mass. I think there MAY be a movement that will bring more Latin into the Novus Ordo but time will tell how much of that will become the reality.

Many people at this area of CAF attend the traditional Latin Mass and that is perfectly fine. So, I can understand their desire to share “their love” with you. The inner theme in my soul compels ME to be fixed where the Church is … theologically, liturgically, spiritually etc. So, I am naturally attracted to the Ordinary Form of the Mass, the Novus Ordo. In that Mass I can easily be drawn to the great simplicity of God’s “still small voice”. I feel “chant” accomplishes this; but I also feel the Novus Ordo accomplishes this and I feel this is a great necessity given the “competing voices” that society places upon our souls. If that is what compels some toward the traditional Latin Mass NO WONDER they want to flock to the extraordinary form of the Mass. I would do the same – but for me, that Mass doesn’t speak to me in that way. God made us differently and I feel since there are options available one should very prayerfully seek those options where God can best “be heard”. This is what I have done; and this is what I feel you should also do; but I think that several posters to this thread have said that “chant alone” doesn’t a traditionalist make. I would agree; while being a great lover of chant. HOWEVER; I place the blame of this fact as one of education and of cultivating the mind (which is a long process) toward understanding and appreciating excellence. American life is in so many ways a very shallow materialistic dream; that is deadly to a true godly life which we were created for.

God bless
MonFrere

 

[brotherhrolf]

I wanted to take Latin in high school but my parents said “No. It is not practical”. Get a hold of a missal, attend a TLM, and bingo so many of the words printed in Latin on one side and English on the other will jump out and hit you. Can I speak Latin? No. Do I understand the Mass, an awful lot of Gregorian Chant, etc. You betcha. English adopted a tremendous amount of Latin words. I took Spanish in high school and as an undergrad. I can only speak Spanish haltingly but I can read it fairly fluently. The Latin in Spanish is even more obvious.

 

[Bebekoualy]

Yea, and it is even very close to French!! I’m gonna start again with Latin… when I’ve got time for this.

I’m going to join a Traditionalist Youth group if I can find one around. I want to meet young people who are whole-hearted, with a real relationship with Jesus, and I would say… who detest sin and really are in favour of things like chastity, which lots of progressives think be has-been.

And I’ll go on practising Gregorian Chant on my own, I dream of singing it daily, but there’s no place I can pray & sing psalms in Latin around.

 

[ProVobis]

Good news is around the corner: the new English Sacramentary/Missal, which is in the approval process, includes all Gregorian chants for the Mass liturgical cycle in an excellent new English-language, modern music notation format.

The Anglican Church has that right now, don’t they?

 

[ProVobis]

In the 90’s there was a CD release of Gregorian Chant. Suddenly it became popular and I heard it sold millions.

So I would be more concerned that Gregorian Chant became more **secularized **than intended by Vatican II. Therefore I would no longer attach a Traditionalist label to it any more than Handel’s Messiah.

 

[brotherhrolf]

In the 90’s there was a CD release of Gregorian Chant. Suddenly it became popular and I heard it sold millions.

So I would be more concerned that Gregorian Chant became more **secularized **than intended by Vatican II. Therefore I would no longer attach a Traditionalist label to it any more than Handel’s Messiah.

I don’t believe that chant is in any way in danger of being secularized - even with the Hildegard von Bingen CD with its New Age overtones. I have the CD to which you refer but actually prefer this:

amazon.com/Salve-Regina-Gregorian-Chant/dp/B0000040ZC/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1262640514&sr=1-6

This is an “ancient” recording from the early 60s before Vatican II and my favorite chant CD. It is digitally remastered. This is how I heard chant growing up before Vatican II except that it wasn’t the good brothers but we, the laity, in the pews singing it. This is an excellent compendium for those who want to know what we sang in the pews before Vatican II.

 

[Bebekoualy]

I don’t believe that chant is in any way in danger of being secularized - even with the Hildegard von Bingen CD with its New Age overtones. I have the CD to which you refer but actually prefer this:

amazon.com/Salve-Regina-Gregorian-Chant/dp/B0000040ZC/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1262640514&sr=1-6

This is an “ancient” recording from the early 60s before Vatican II and my favorite chant CD. It is digitally remastered. This is how I heard chant growing up before Vatican II except that it wasn’t the good brothers but we, the laity, in the pews singing it. This is an excellent compendium for those who want to know what we sang in the pews before Vatican II.

The Monks of Clairvaux, It’s a French monastery! I’m so proud of it.
Fortunately, we still have places like Solesmes where they’re attached to the tradition, to the Chant, and keep it. It does lead to God, indeed!

 

[ProVobis]

I have Gregorian chant and classical music on my cell phone. I use it to relax with when, for example, I’m in the doctor’s or dentist’s office. I’m not going to pretend I’m worshipping God by listening to my cell phone any more than if I were practicing Transcendental Meditation. Gregorian Chant doesn’t even make me a Catholic, much less a traditionalist Catholic. And this is what the OP asked, I believe.

 

[RobNY]

Thanks for your advice. Do you think I might manage? I’m just so nervous… and I feel filled with awe and fear when I’m about to take Holy Communion, I don’t know why… kneeling down and so on… Very traditionalist. I like it but it intimidates me.

The Chant is the best thing I ever discovered. I really need it, but in my diocese, it’s very hard to find a Church where it is sung… Except for the Traditionalist one.

I’m just scared of becoming a Traditionalist because I don’t want to look like an integrist. I’m not saying that Traditionalists are fundamentalists (d’you say “integrists”?), of course. But many people think so, and I don’t want to be labelled.

But I do respect and love Tridentine mass… But I’ve got the impression it’s part of the “Elite” and that I cannot reach it.

I thought about studying Latin again… .It might help me solve the mystery.

I’m a bit unclear what you mean by an ‘integrist.’ What exactly are the positions which integrists take?

From what I hear, or so a friar told me who lived in France for a while, there’s a bit of a difference flavor or connotation to ‘traditionalism’ in France, because unlike in America, it has, at times, been bound up with various political views (i.e., about the old regime, versus the modern, liberal French state) for instance. For this reason, he explained to me, ‘traditionalism’ has some extra baggage with it.

My experience with the traditional Mass is that it is a lot of work. Don’t let that deter you. Most people would ‘get’ the traditional Mass by being brought up on it. You’re trying to do in a very short amount of time what most people took years and years growing up with. You may need to attend the traditional Mass for another year before you get really comfortable with it.

Some people recommend not using a missal, but I say that you need to compromise. There are some missals which include the sorts of hand gestures, ritual movements and other things that go on during the Roman Canon. I recommend gently following this sort of missal, while watching the priest. This has helped me to be able to orient myself during the Mass. First ringing of the bells? That means that you’ve gotten up to the ‘hanc igitur’ (I think? see… I’m still learning). How about when the priest lays his hands on the altar and bows? You see, you can tell exactly where the priest is by paying careful attention to these signs. Don’t be anxious about learning them all at once. Just gently follow in your missal. After a while the words will become more familiar, and if you study Latin, you’ll start to understand them quite easily.

And after a while… you’ll know all the ordinary chants in Latin, or at least well enough to fake it without a book. Before you know it… you’ll be able to really pray the Mass and not sweat through it. And let me tell you, that’s really a treat. Keep at it!

God bless,
Rob

 

[brotherhrolf]

The Monks of Clairvaux, It’s a French monastery! I’m so proud of it.
Fortunately, we still have places like Solesmes where they’re attached to the tradition, to the Chant, and keep it. It does lead to God, indeed!

I am of French ancestry and this CD contains a whole lot of what we sang in the pews in French south Louisiana in the 60s.

Pro Vobis: I am a calligrapher and I use chant to “still” myself to be able to concentrate. I also listen to sacred motets. I don’t pretend that I am worshiping God any more than you other than my calligraphy is devoted to God. I put my heart and soul into my calligraphy and I am extremely conscious of those who preceded me hundreds of years ago - monks who were scribes and illuminators and monks who sang in the schola.

 

[Bebekoualy]

I’m a bit unclear what you mean by an ‘integrist.’ What exactly are the positions which integrists take?

What I mean by being an *integrist *is to be narrow-minded, intolerant, seeing Evil everywhere, not obeying the Pope, judging other Catholics whose faith might be more precious than mine even though they don’t attend TLM, etc.

From what I hear, or so a friar told me who lived in France for a while, there’s a bit of a difference flavor or connotation to ‘traditionalism’ in France, because unlike in America, it has, at times, been bound up with various political views (i.e., about the old regime, versus the modern, liberal French state) for instance. For this reason, he explained to me, ‘traditionalism’ has some extra baggage with it.

Exact! I think it’s outrageous to mix Religion and faith with Politics! And I found some weird websites promoting right-wing parties and praising Tradition as well. I think we are free to vote for anyone, and it’s not quite right to impose a point of view like this. It also gives a bad image of Catholicism.

My experience with the traditional Mass is that it is a lot of work. Don’t let that deter you. Most people would ‘get’ the traditional Mass by being brought up on it. You’re trying to do in a very short amount of time what most people took years and years growing up with. You may need to attend the traditional Mass for another year before you get really comfortable with it.

Some people recommend not using a missal, but I say that you need to compromise. There are some missals which include the sorts of hand gestures, ritual movements and other things that go on during the Roman Canon. I recommend gently following this sort of missal, while watching the priest. This has helped me to be able to orient myself during the Mass. First ringing of the bells? That means that you’ve gotten up to the ‘hanc igitur’ (I think? see… I’m still learning). How about when the priest lays his hands on the altar and bows? You see, you can tell exactly where the priest is by paying careful attention to these signs. Don’t be anxious about learning them all at once. Just gently follow in your missal. After a while the words will become more familiar, and if you study Latin, you’ll start to understand them quite easily.

And after a while… you’ll know all the ordinary chants in Latin, or at least well enough to fake it without a book. Before you know it… you’ll be able to really pray the Mass and not sweat through it. And let me tell you, that’s really a treat. Keep at it!

God bless,
Rob

All right, I need time then. But for the NO Mass, it took about a year to get accustomed to it, and another one to understand the mystery of the Eucharist. But as it’s most in the vernacular, no difficulty to learn things by heart.
But for TLM, I need more time because I’m used to the NO Mass.