DRE Says No Bible Memorization

[sambos671]

But faith is not about cut-and-dried answers. Faith is about a relationship with a living God.

Besides, with mysteries–the heart of our faith–no answer is adequate. The living truth is always greater than we can understand or express.

(also what Contarini said. )

You are absolutely right bmonk.
I tend to get carried away on my soap box. After all its a protestant left over I need to work on.

 

[Della]

Instead why don’t I/we explain to the bishop the context of the issue and then attend to his judgement.

Unless, of course, you like the hippy in step with the modern culture that allows for abortions, same sex civil unions, kissing the ring finger of Nancy Pelosi, and never being truelly catachized into the faith never really knowing what it is we believe.

Maybe we should role out more Catholics that believe in superstions rather than what the church truely teaches and bury St. Joseph statues upside down in our yards to sell our houses, but are ignorant of the Eucharist, the difference between the gifts of the Holy Spirit and the fruit of the Holy Spirit. Have no idea what are the 3 theological virtues of the Church. Of what things consist of Coporial acts of Mercy verses Spiritual acts of Mercy, or being able to list the 10 commandments, or List the precepts of the Church. Or Look blankly at people when called to give a reason for our hope. Or have catholic daughters think its ok to have women priest which would circumvent the Matter of the Sacrament of Holy Orders.

Or Maybe the bishop would agree with these things in which case I would go to the Nuncio as this goes against the consistent teaching of the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.

I’m not saying you agree or your bishop agrees with this but far too many Catholics do and its got to change. And if Memorizing Scripture will better Catachize ignorant Catholics then why not? Certainly on these issues the Pope has made himself clear as do the documents of the Church. I pay and hope you’re not one of the Catholics who do agree with the said topics i’ve suggested.

That’s a lot of stuff to toss at a DRE who had nothing to do with any of the things you mentioned. Soap box, indeed. Wow!

Let’s calm down and think about this. I’ll repeat myself. Memorizing Scripture is not part of RCIA catechesis. Period. No RCIA program devised by anyone, orthodox or not, includes memorization as a part of becoming Catholic. So, that is settled.

Now, let’s just take what the DRE said and let’s say the DRE truly said it. We can only guess at motivation since we cannot ask what s/he intended. I think what s/he intended is in what s/he said–that s/he had a concern about misinterpretation. And that concern is legitimate. People memorize verses, even whole passages and never bother to learn anything about the context or what solid theology has to say about it. The Bible is a dangerous book. People have used it to commit all sorts of atrocities. This is why it needs the right interpreter, which is the Church. Agreed?

The DRE did not say that memorizing Bible verses was prohibited ever, at any time in the future. And that’s important to note. To assume that takes his/her statement too far–it assumes too much. And that’s not fair to him/her.

You may think I’m trying to let the DRE off some kind of hook, but in truth, the poor soul was never on a hook, but has been judged for something quoted out of context, and perhaps misquoted, that really has nothing to do with being formed by RCIA.

We Catholics give people the benefit of the doubt. The principle of innocent until proven guilty comes from Church law. Even the Inquisition did this, as the records in the Vatican show. Most of the accused wanted to be tried by the Church’s tribunals than by the secular ones because they knew they’d get a fair hearing instead of being condemned for political gain/retribution. So, let’s be good Catholics and do the same for this DRE.

 

[sambos671]

That’s a lot of stuff to toss at a DRE who had nothing to do with any of the things you mentioned. Soap box, indeed. Wow!

Ah. But where does it start? By letting go or our discipline. Of which Scripture memorization is but one. Starts with the scripture, next its our prayer life, then what?

Let’s calm down and think about this. I’ll repeat myself. Memorizing Scripture is not part of RCIA catechesis. Period. No RCIA program devised by anyone, orthodox or not, includes memorization as a part of becoming Catholic. So, that is settled.

You are right. I really can’t argue that. However, at my Parish RCIA classes a lot of things are explained through scripture which the Catholic Church teaches which if you memorize the source of the practice and scriptural support it can only re-inforce our catachesis.

Now, let’s just take what the DRE said and let’s say the DRE truly said it. We can only guess at motivation since we cannot ask what s/he intended. I think what s/he intended is in what s/he said–that s/he had a concern about misinterpretation. And that concern is legitimate. People memorize verses, even whole passages and never bother to learn anything about the context or what solid theology has to say about it. The Bible is a dangerous book. People have used it to commit all sorts of atrocities. This is why it needs the right interpreter, which is the Church. Agreed?

I disagee that the Bible is a dangerous book. I believe like anything else for instance a gun, in itself is not dangerous. Its the people around it that are. However, Learning scriptures (even memorization) with in the context of RCIA or the Tutorlage of the Church where context and theology would accompany the passage seems to me the ideal place to teach it. Rather than leave a person ignorant of it walk down the street and meet up with a bible thumper and have the catachumin feel that the Church with held a truth and purposely lead them astray. Or feel that the church can’t handle its own scripture and has a need to down play the bible. Which will play right into the hand of the bible thumper guy who believes the church has always withheld scriptures to decieve.

The DRE did not say that memorizing Bible verses was prohibited ever, at any time in the future. And that’s important to note. To assume that takes his/her statement too far–it assumes too much. And that’s not fair to him/her.

We can assume that or we can assume that they feel scriptures are bad.

You may think I’m trying to let the DRE off some kind of hook, but in truth, the poor soul was never on a hook, but has been judged for something quoted out of context, and perhaps misquoted, that really has nothing to do with being formed by RCIA.

We Catholics give people the benefit of the doubt. The principle of innocent until proven guilty comes from Church law. Even the Inquisition did this, as the records in the Vatican show. Most of the accused wanted to be tried by the Church’s tribunals than by the secular ones because they knew they’d get a fair hearing instead of being condemned for political gain/retribution. So, let’s be good Catholics and do the same for this DRE.

Catholics have had a history of rounding up people they thought were heretics and doing bad things to them. Then the church has to step in and calm everyone down. Today it just seems everyone is overly calm. We need some passion!!!

 

[Della]

Ah. But where does it start? By letting go or our discipline. Of which Scripture memorization is but one. Starts with the scripture, next its our prayer life, then what?

You are right. I really can’t argue that. However, at my Parish RCIA classes a lot of things are explained through scripture which the Catholic Church teaches which if you memorize the source of the practice and scriptural support it can only re-inforce our catachesis.

I disagee that the Bible is a dangerous book. I believe like anything else for instance a gun, in itself is not dangerous. Its the people around it that are. However, Learning scriptures (even memorization) with in the context of RCIA or the Tutorlage of the Church where context and theology would accompany the passage seems to me the ideal place to teach it. Rather than leave a person ignorant of it walk down the street and meet up with a bible thumper and have the catachumin feel that the Church with held a truth and purposely lead them astray. Or feel that the church can’t handle its own scripture and has a need to down play the bible. Which will play right into the hand of the bible thumper guy who believes the church has always withheld scriptures to decieve.

We can assume that or we can assume that they feel scriptures are bad.

Catholics have had a history of rounding up people they thought were heretics and doing bad things to them. Then the church has to step in and calm everyone down. Today it just seems everyone is overly calm. We need some passion!!!

The problem is you are trying to redefine what RCIA ought to be. It is instruction in the Catholic faith, not a Bible study. Bible studies are fine, but RCIA simply isn’t that. Once someone has been received into the Church he can go to all the Bible studies he pleases. This is not an either/or scenario–thinking like that is very Protestant indeed. As for the Bible thumper down the street–most people in RCIA are already aware of them and many are (like I was) fleeing them for the solid theology and Sacred Tradition of the Church. And passion is fine, but misdirected passion does no one any good. I only meant that you, sambo, are letting yourself get all worked up over a none issue.

This is not about how much Bible we ought to have in RCIA but what RCIA is meant to cover, and it doesn’t cover deliberately memorizing Scripture as some sort of condition for becoming Catholic. If people want to memorize Scripture no one is going to stop them. And no, the Church didn’t “round people up”. You need to learn some real history instead swallowing what the general, and generally ignorant, culture around us says about the Church. I consider this discussion closed because I have better things to do than go on talking in circles, saying the same things over and over again. If you don’t believe what I am saying about RCIA then you should talk to your priest about it. I’m sure he’d say the same as me.

 

[sambos671]

The problem is you are trying to redefine what RCIA ought to be.

You are quite wrong. I don’t know about your RCIA classes but the Magisterium of the Church and going through the Catachism is often supported by scripture. It isn’t a bible study but does show biblical support for Catholic beliefs where appropriate. And I find nothing wrong with knowing these passages and understanding them in the Context of the Catholic Faith. I don’t know if you read throught the Catachism but oft it quotes scripture.

It is instruction in the Catholic faith

I indeed it does. And note during the 2nd and 3rd centuries Catachumins studied the faith for three years before being baptized. However, have you forgoten this gem of instruction in the catholic faith?

84 The apostles entrusted the "Sacred deposit" of the faith (the depositum fidei),45 contained in Sacred Scripture and Tradition, to the whole of the Church. "By adhering to [this heritage] the entire holy people, united to its pastors, remains always faithful to the teaching of the apostles, to the brotherhood, to the breaking of bread and the prayers. So, in maintaining, practicing and professing the faith that has been handed on, there should be a remarkable harmony between the bishops and the faithful."46

You cannot teach the whole truth without scripture.

Once someone has been received into the Church he can go to all the Bible studies he pleases.

This assumes they actually know what faith they are being received into refer to my post of Catachism 84.

This is not an either/or scenario–thinking like that is very Protestant indeed.

Wrong again. My thinking is both. You are being the either/or. For instance. The Church teaches that the church has the sacrament of reconciliation which is evidence in scripture telling us that Jesus gave the Apostles to power to forgive and retain sin. There is nothing wrong with a person memorizing

Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.” And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”

However, you would ignore scriptural support for this sacrament given the church for what. Because the DRE says so? Hmmm. No wonder people are leaving the Church in droves.

As for the Bible thumper down the street–most people in RCIA are already aware of them and many are (like I was) fleeing them for the solid theology and Sacred Tradition of the Church.

Which ones? The Liberal Anglicans who had their church close down and thought the Catholic Church was the next best alternative but still believe in same sex unions in the clergy? Or the ones who seek the ancient faith?

And passion is fine, but misdirected passion does no one any good.

Fair but don’t you think John the baptist was passionate or Jesus when he drove the money changers out?

I only meant that you, sambo, are letting yourself get all worked up over a none issue.

Not really. Let me explain to you a little about me. I grew up in post Vatican 2. There was no real evangelization. Clergy played around with ideas of comparing the Catholic Faith with Budhism. Every Catholic (save the clergy) I knew did not know their faith and were primarily cultural catholics. Even in Parochial schools nuns were getting away with looking like regular women in regular clothes and preached inaccuracies of the Catholic faith. We thought we could sin as much as we like as long as we went to confession on Saturdays and be good enough to take eucharist on sundays with every intetion of sinning through the rest of the week. Our goal for salvation was to get old and confess just before we die. My brain went on automatic every mass and when the bells chimed after the Epiclisis I new it was about over as did every other Catholic I knew. When I actually was confronted by protestants who were more catholic in lifestyles than the catholics I new I left the church believing it to be fraudulent. God’s grace brought me back. But let me tell you a little bit about coming back. I’ve met layity who believe Jesus will save everyone and no one will go to hell. A woman takes off her shoes to recieve the Eucharist, a man claims (claims mind you) that he has some special dispensation to whistle the reponsitory, CCD kids have no idea about their faith and when explained in such a way they understand are speachless. So no I don’t think I’m getting worked up over nothing. Catholics need to make a stand on their faith so that true evangelism can take place. We should not accept these type of things and work to proclaim our faith accurately to all.

And no, the Church didn’t “round people up”.

I never said the Church rounded people up. I said Catholics did or your lower clergy and layity that is. Just ask the Greek philosophress Hypatia. However, I said that to be fatiecous or funny. But you can take me seriously if you want. BTW I do know my history. I think maybe you should as well.

 

[Julia_Mae]

You cannot teach the whole truth without scripture.

Jesus did. Paul did. This is why we are an apostolic Church, because we pass down the deposit of Faith.

We use Scripture to show the source of the Truth, but it, itself, is not the Truth. We don’t worship books and writings, but a living God.

 

[sambos671]

Jesus did. Paul did. This is why we are an apostolic Church, because we pass down the deposit of Faith.

We use Scripture to show the source of the Truth, but it, itself, is not the Truth. We don’t worship books and writings, but a living God.

Are you really trying to tell me Jesus never taught using the scriptures? Hmmmmm. I don’t know if you say the rosary but what is the third Luminous mystery and at what point after his revelation of himself at the wedding of Cana did the Lord start proclaiming the Kingdom? Let me give you a hint

13 When the devil had finished all this tempting, he left him until an opportune time.

Jesus Rejected at Nazareth
14 Jesus returned to Galilee in the power of the Spirit, and news about him spread through the whole countryside. 15 He was teaching in their synagogues, and everyone praised him.
16 He went to Nazareth, where he had been brought up, and on the Sabbath day he went into the synagogue, as was his custom. He stood up to read, 17 and the scroll of the prophet Isaiah was handed to him…20 Then he rolled up the scroll, gave it back to the attendant and sat down. The eyes of everyone in the synagogue were fastened on him. 21 He began by saying to them, “Today this scripture is fulfilled in your hearing.”

The very begining of the Proclimation of the kingdom! The scriptures are the word of God which is the truth. The source is God himself. Now I know we are not a people of the Book. However, this doesn’t mean we chucked the bible out. The Magisterium is built upon the scriptures as well the oral teachings of the apostles. I never said to worship the scriptures you are arguing a red herring there. But the One Holy And Apostolic Church gave us the scriptures to use, to Catachize. It would be unfortunate if we didn’t take our church up on it. And beyond that I see a looming problem for our Church in the future if we don’t.

Ever ask youself why the numbers of Holy Orders are down in the Western World? Ever wonder why Catholic membership is down? Ever wonder why we’re loosing the cultural war? Ever wonder why Politicians who call themselves catholic support abortion? Its because as a people we’ve failed to draw the line in the sand and say “this is our faith!”

 

[Julia_Mae]

Ever wonder why Catholic membership is down? Ever wonder why we’re loosing the cultural war?

Because people keep quoting words and rules and don’t actually understand their own Faith enough to spread the Gospel?

Jesus didn’t give us the Truth by using the OT. He used the OT at times when it was appropriate to His audience while He was delivering the Gospel. At other times, He didn’t deliver the Gospel by speaking in any way.

In public in front a large audiences, He used parables. He wanted people to simply understand His message. He used those on purpose, *not *Scripture.

Jesus is the Logos. Not what was written about Him.

 

[pnewton]

I am a firm believer in Bible memorization. We memorize the Hail Mary and other prayers, so what is the downside to knowing and carrying the words of Jesus, or those of St. Paul in our heart? While it may have no part of formal adult education, I would encourage all adults to seek to embrace the parts of Scripture that relate to your life. Let these truths become part of who you are.

 

[sambos671]

Because people keep quoting words and rules and don’t actually understand their own Faith enough to spread the Gospel?

Yes exactly. You get a gold star! And often they think this is the case because we don’t use the tools given us to properly transmit the faith to them. They hear stuff like don’t memorize scriptures, or don’t even read the bible because you’ll get confused. And they hear catachesis instructors mentioning Canon Law. And bad ones passing on what I call Hearsay tradition (ie st. Joeseph statue buried upside down) While everyone forgets that our faith is a personal relationship with the Lord not only do we pray to him but he speaks to use through the Scriptures and the Church and the Church community. How can someone spread the gospel if they are not familiar with it. The only way to get familiar with it is by reading it. Now don’t misunderstand me. Read the bible in the context of the magisterium but don’t ignore it. It is by ignoring scriptures and singing kumbaiya that we are loosing the measage of our faith. Remember the Church gaves us the scriptures to use for Catachesis. Why ignore this beautiful tool to train our newest converts?

Jesus didn’t give us the Truth by using the OT. He used the OT at times when it was appropriate to His audience while He was delivering the Gospel. At other times, He didn’t deliver the Gospel by speaking in any way.

He actually used all resources to spread his message to include use of the OT or Scriptures. Go again through the NT and see how many times he referrences scripture. Quite a bit for someone you believe isn’t using the OT to transmit truth. He used every resource. To include his divine power to heal, reveal, to lay bare the people he came accross. And should the Church do any less? We are given the Scriptures we should use them as even Jesus did and his apostles. Remember Philip?

26 Now an angel of the Lord said to Philip, “Go south to the road—the desert road—that goes down from Jerusalem to Gaza.” 27 So he started out, and on his way he met an Ethiopian[a] eunuch, an important official in charge of all the treasury of the Kandake (which means “queen of the Ethiopians”). This man had gone to Jerusalem to worship, 28 and on his way home was sitting in his chariot reading the Book of Isaiah the prophet. 29 The Spirit told Philip, “Go to that chariot and stay near it.”
30 Then Philip ran up to the chariot and heard the man reading Isaiah the prophet. “Do you understand what you are reading?” Philip asked.

31 “How can I,” he said, “unless someone explains it to me?” So he invited Philip to come up and sit with him. …34 The eunuch asked Philip, “Tell me, please, who is the prophet talking about, himself or someone else?” 35 Then Philip began with that very passage of Scripture and told him the good news about Jesus. … 36 As they traveled along the road, they came to some water and the eunuch said, “Look, here is water. What can stand in the way of my being baptized?” [37] [c] 38 And he gave orders to stop the chariot. Then both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water and Philip baptized him. "

Philip used the scriptures to teach the truth to the Ethiopian. And the Ethiopian was baptized. Amen. Imagine if Philip had said “you’re right. The bible is too difficult to you that’s why you shouldn’t bother with it. Listen instead to me.” That is what it sounds like the DRE is saying and in my humble opinion its a bad choice. No Philip used all the tools given him to include the scriptures and preached Jesus to the man. The Church should do the same.

Jesus is the Logos. Not what was written about Him.

This is a Non-Sequitur. I haven’t suggested otherwise nor does it come up in the flow of our discussion. However, even if it had. That doesn’t mean scripture is not the very word of God given to us to as Paul says to Timothy

and how from infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, ***which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16 All Scripture is God-breathed ***and is useful for teaching, ***rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God[a] may be thoroughly equipped for every good work. ***

. Sound like RCIA is a perfect place to review some scripture along with the teachings of what our church believes. Therefore your statment in the end doesn’t follow the argument.

 

[KarenElissa]

How can someone spread the gospel if they are not familiar with it. The only way to get familiar with it is by reading it.

How does not memorizing scripture equal not reading the Bible? Those are two different activities. They may be related, but they are not the same.

Sound like RCIA is a perfect place to review some scripture along with the teachings of what our church believes. Therefore your statment in the end doesn’t follow the argument.

RCIA should be reviewing scripture every Sunday. The catechumens should be dismissed after the Liturgy of the Word each week and gather to spend more time reflecting on the readings they just heard. So again, just because memorization isn’t being stressed, doesn’t mean they aren’t hearing scriptures.

 

[sambos671]

RCIA should be reviewing scripture every Sunday. The catechumens should be dismissed after the Liturgy of the Word each week and gather to spend more time reflecting on the readings they just heard. So again, just because memorization isn’t being stressed, doesn’t mean they aren’t hearing scriptures.

True Karen. They are hearing scriptures. Just like 100% of Catholics every Sunday hear scriptures. And just like every other Catholic how much of it just goes over their head? If I were to guess I would think 30% actually retain what they hear and apply it to their lives. While the rest do what I did. Switch to automatic. However, when it comes to learning the specifics of the faith they can trace their source to the scriptures. So when asked why we believe certain things they know and can answer. However, note what the op has said.

We do not encourage anyone to memorize bible verses because the person may misinterpret the bible verses

I don’t equate memorizing with misinterpreting the DRE of this RCIA does. Misinterpreting comes from hearing with out catachesis which follows that catachecal instruction is happening without scriptures. Memorizing scriptures out of context is a catachesis problem cause not by the memorization but by the teaching associated with the hearing of the passage. Thus the DRE is really saying they don’t use scripture to catachize their catachumins. Which goes against the Catachism, magisterium, and the consistent teachings of the church.

BTW what do you have against scripture?

 

[Ranp]

I grew up in post Vatican 2. There was no real evangelization. Clergy played around with ideas of comparing the Catholic Faith with Budhism. Every Catholic (save the clergy) I knew did not know their faith and were primarily cultural catholics. Even in Parochial schools nuns were getting away with looking like regular women in regular clothes and preached inaccuracies of the Catholic faith. We thought we could sin as much as we like as long as we went to confession on Saturdays and be good enough to take eucharist on sundays with every intetion of sinning through the rest of the week. Our goal for salvation was to get old and confess just before we die. My brain went on automatic every mass and when the bells chimed after the Epiclisis I new it was about over as did every other Catholic I knew. When I actually was confronted by protestants who were more catholic in lifestyles than the catholics I new I left the church believing it to be fraudulent. God’s grace brought me back. But let me tell you a little bit about coming back. I’ve met layity who believe Jesus will save everyone and no one will go to hell. A woman takes off her shoes to recieve the Eucharist, a man claims (claims mind you) that he has some special dispensation to whistle the reponsitory, CCD kids have no idea about their faith and when explained in such a way they understand are speachless. So no I don’t think I’m getting worked up over nothing. Catholics need to make a stand on their faith so that true evangelism can take place. We should not accept these type of things and work to proclaim our faith accurately to all.

That has been my experience as a Catholic too. Grew up in a rural Catholic community where no one had any real knowledge about the Catholic faith and never ever read the Bible. Nuns came every Monday evening for an hour of catechism that never once involved openning a Bible. Almost none of the households owned a Bible, the few that did has KJV Bibles. Confession was viewed as the free pass to sin like you wanted. Live-in couples and divorced/re-married people openly received the Holy Eucharist. The last pew was for the men still drunk from the night before. When I talked to a priest about becoming a priest he started hitting-up on me, thus I dropped that idea. Wasn’t long before I was a hard-core atheist and remain so for several years. Thankfully God’s grace also brought me back to His holy church. Today I am totally blown away by the fact that the problems that existed at my home church actually exists all over the US.

 

[sambos671]

That has been my experience as a Catholic too. Grew up in a rural Catholic community where no one had any real knowledge about the Catholic faith and never ever read the Bible. Nuns came every Monday evening for an hour of catechism that never once involved openning a Bible. Almost none of the households owned a Bible, the few that did has KJV Bibles. Confession was viewed as the free pass to sin like you wanted. Live-in couples and divorced/re-married people openly received the Holy Eucharist. The last pew was for the men still drunk from the night before. When I talked to a priest about becoming a priest he started hitting-up on me, thus I dropped that idea. Wasn’t long before I was a hard-core atheist and remain so for several years. Thankfully God’s grace also brought me back to His holy church. Today I am totally blown away by the fact that the problems that existed at my home church actually exists all over the US.

Amen! I praise God that he lead you back and you didn’t stay away from the Body of Christ! Unfortunately many more have stayed away. Which makes me praise God all the more for people like you that he hasn’t forsaken us entirely. Not that he will but it is evidence. Lets look at some other issues because of our poor Catachesis which ignore scriptures from a news agency which is catholic centered though not an official agency of the Church

The archdiocese of Detroit is prepared to make 60 parishes and worship sites go
away by mergers … closings and clusterings.
A reduction of 60 which represents a very hefty percentage

In the archdiocese of New York … 33 Catholic schools had the hammer brought down on
them this academic year … and that will surely result in further parish closings in the not
too distant future as the pipeline of new young Catholics just dries up.

The same thing is going on all over the United States and other western countries.
Massive closing and shutterings … a Church in all out retreat … running for its life before
it’s simply overwhelmed.

There are … to put it bluntly … not enough faithful Catholics to support this
structure any longer. Something’s gotta go.

In business … you do two things when it comes to your product … keep the customers you
have AND increase your customer base. Since the One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church
has the Holy Spirit as its guide … the blueprint of what to do already exists. And that is
very simple. PREACH THE TRUTH and God Himself will provide. The no-holds
barred WHOLE TRUTH and be very clear about it.

The truth is not being preached … Catholics are not being PROPERLY instructed … and so
the Catholic identity is being obscured and wiped out … replaced by everything from a
Protestant world view to an indifferentism among Catholics … that in the end …
disconnects from the faith. So they leave … they don’t raise their children in the faith … there are less and less
Catholics in the pews contributing money and parishes fail and get closed up and the
whole cycle begins again. In fact … it’s been going on now for over 20 years.

This is what we are facing. So lets use all the tools the Church has given to us to teach the truth! One of which is scripture! Lets not shy away from it as though it might burn our hands but lets embrace it with the interpretive guide Jesus gave us the magisterium of the church!

 

[Julia_Mae]

Quite a bit for someone you believe isn’t using the OT to transmit truth. .

I didn’t say that. I said He used it in an appropriate context with certain people. Pharisees, mostly. I said when speaking to the average person He used parables, most of the time. Jesus didn’t need any Scripture to teach the Truth He came to transmit.

People leave churches and don’t join churches because no one tells them the Truth. Instead, they quote words. Quoting Scripture at someone is a very poor way to evangelize. Almost never works. Sharing your faith does.

As I have said before, if you can’t explain the Faith without quoting Scripture, you don’t really understand it. This DRE is very wise.

 

[sambos671]

I didn’t say that. I said He used it in an appropriate context with certain people. Pharisees, mostly. I said when speaking to the average person He used parables, most of the time. Jesus didn’t need any Scripture to teach the Truth He came to transmit.

People leave churches and don’t join churches because no one tells them the Truth. Instead, they quote words. Quoting Scripture at someone is a very poor way to evangelize. Almost never works. Sharing your faith does.

As I have said before, if you can’t explain the Faith without quoting Scripture, you don’t really understand it. This DRE is very wise.

FYI Jesus didn’t only use scriptures with the Pharisees as you would suggest but he used them throughout his ministry to all classes of people. Your statement

People leave churches and don’t join churches because no one tells them the Truth. Instead, they quote words. Quoting Scripture at someone is a very poor way to evangelize.

is very wrong as I’ve showed you with Philip. Paul uses scriptures to discuss and evangelize at synagogues all throughout the book of Acts. I do disagree whole hartedly with you about using scriptures to help explain and pass on the faith. After all when explaining Jesus incarnation, suffering, death, and resurrection your quoting scriptures of the Gospel. As I’ve said. The Church Gave us scriptures as a tool to evangelize and Catachize. You are also very wrong when you say

People leave churches and don’t join churches because no one tells them the Truth. Instead, they quote words.

. Ask yourself why they quote words? Is it that the act of quoting words lead them astray? No. Your logic is flawed. The words are quoted because those words are considered by the person quoting them as authoritative. If you get someone who believes scriptures are authoritiative you are half way there to evangelize them. Instead. Those words are quoted to express a false belief about the Church! Which means they haven’t been taught the Truth!!! or the context of scripture with the Church!!! How many ex Catholics have claimed to worship Mary and the Saints equating that worship with God? Uncountable!!! Which means they don’t know their faith!!! And why don’t they know their faith? Because it isn’t being taught to them as it should be!!! So no the DRE isn’t wise. S/he has only crippled their effectiveness in teaching the beliefs of the Church and we will have another class come through of (name removed by moderator)roperly Catachized Catholics. And Hoping that later on their own they will learn more is only wishful thinking. Once inducted into the Church what kind of faithful will they be? The kind that goes to mass eventually and hardly goes to confession? Or will they be dynamic members who grow closer to the lord in righteousness. Unfortunately, I see more the the prior than the latter. And when they going about their lives and a protestant ask them if they are saved? What will be their answer? “I don’t know? I hope all the things I do will work out in the end?” Giving the protestant the entry and confirming their wrongful criticism of the Catholic Faith. Or will it be as I hope it is “I have been saved, I am being saved, and I will be saved! as long as I’m found in sanctifing grace when He comes!”
And when asked or challenged our properly Catachized friend will say by what authority and where it can be found.

Certainly, you can explain our faith without scriptures but why would you want to since it is the tool the Church gave us. Unless your faith is - God loves everyone and look how beautiful flowers are and it doesn’t matter if you desire same sex unions, have a live in partner, or believe abortions are ok because - God loves you even when you sin and the judgmental God that sends people to hell doesn’t belong to the tie died Catholic Church that play guitars at mass while the priest wears a rainbow collored cassok but to protestants who are stuck in the OT. God only wants you to know him through this love exprerience not through the words he gave the church. Because I’m ok and your ok. - If that is your faith that you want to pass on then we are certainly in trouble!!! I hope it is not. I hope it is the same faith that the Apostles passed on in their teachings Oral and Writen words. Where the scriptures are interpreted authoritatively by the Church and given to its catachumin.

Oh and I understand our faith and the scripture enhances my understand of our faith! I study scriptures daily, I study the catachism daily, I read studies in the Catholic faith by priest, I read apologies by Cardinal Newman, GK Chesterton, and many others. I also read the ancient fathers. I partake in liturgy of the hours and say my rosary. I properly catachize my children and have prayers with them in the hope they will understand the faith and despite how anemic our church is becoming will be a bastion of light proclaiming the truth of the Catholic Faith. I challenge CCD teachers who teach my kids that they believe in Ghost and like watching the ghost whisperer. That is what I think happens when you build a fear of scriptures into people. You are actually building a fear of half of the magisterium of the Church. Which in my mind is just as bad as protestants only focusing on scripture. Heresy comes from both extremes.

 

[thistle]

The DRE at a church in my area states:
“We do not encourage anyone to memorize bible verses because the person may misinterpret the bible verses.”
What do the forum members think about that comment?

Frankly I think that’s ridiculous.

That’s also a round about way of implying you should not even read the Bible in case you misinterpret what you read.

 

[Jerry-Jet]

Not memorizing parts of the bible is just plain dumb!

 

[Julia_Mae]

I do disagree whole hartedly with you about using scriptures to help explain and pass on the faith.

I never said Scripture shouldn’t be used to pass on the faith. I said the DRE was wise not to have memorization.

After all when explaining Jesus incarnation, suffering, death, and resurrection your quoting scriptures of the Gospel.

No, I’m not. “Quoting” is saying memorized words. Explaining the Incarnation and Who Jesus is and why He came, all these things come from an understanding of what is in Scripture and Tradition, but those explanations do not require memorization and exactly quoting passages in the Bible. And shouldn’t.

As I’ve said. The Church Gave us scriptures as a tool to evangelize and Catachize.

I don’t think so. The Church used Scripture as part of that, themselves. WE, the faithful, never had any Scripture to use or memorize or the ability to read it for most of our history. Yet, somehow, the faith got passed on.

The words are quoted because those words are considered by the person quoting them as authoritative. If you get someone who believes scriptures are authoritiative you are half way there to evangelize them.

This is what Protestants do, isn’t it? Quote a whole lot of memorized passages of Scripture that they say mean a certain thing. Of course, they are wrong. And that becomes very dangerous and it breeds more and more people perfectly quoting misinterpreted Scripture. Which I believe is what this DRE wants to avoid.

And when asked or challenged our properly Catachized friend will say by what authority and where it can be found.

Because you remember every single thing you memorized in school years later? Or you think kids will from Confirmation? Do you do this often in your own life? Quote Scripture passages at nonCatholics?

I talk about Scripture all the time. I’ve almost never quoted it. When folks say, “The Bible doesn’t say that!” and then I look it up and we find it together and read what it says and it does say that, it seems pretty effective to me in transmitting the Faith. Then I’m not preaching at anyone. I’m sharing my Faith.

I believe you have conflated my complete support of not memorizing passages of Scripture with not studying Scripture and understanding Faith. You think we should; I think we shouldn’t. We differ. So be it.

 

[jmcrae]

No, I’m not. “Quoting” is saying memorized words. Explaining the Incarnation and Who Jesus is and why He came, all these things come from an understanding of what is in Scripture and Tradition, but those explanations do not require memorization and exactly quoting passages in the Bible. And shouldn’t.

It is impossible to come to understand something if you have never known the fact of its existence. Memorization is the step of coming to know the fact of the existence of that particular section of Scripture. Once you have it in your mind, now you can come to understand it. But that second step cannot take place, if the first step never takes place.

This is what Protestants do, isn’t it? Quote a whole lot of memorized passages of Scripture that they say mean a certain thing. Of course, they are wrong. And that becomes very dangerous and it breeds more and more people perfectly quoting misinterpreted Scripture. Which I believe is what this DRE wants to avoid.

That they never take the second step of coming to understand does not mean that it was a bad thing for them to take the first step of coming to know of the existence of these things.

Between reading and understanding comes memorization - even if you don’t retain it in long-term memory, you still need to remember it long enough to come to understand it.