Dreading Mass at my geographical parish

[justinkolo]

Hey, it’s me again. You guys have been helpful with my struggles in the past, but now I have a new one.

I’ve started trying to go to the parish I live in for Sunday Mass, since I feel like I should be supporting their mission of saving all the souls in their geographic area. Problem is, I absolutely dread it. The church has been “renovated” so you sit around the new altar, 1/2 of us are facing away from the old tabernacle and even the crucifix. The music is all that modern stuff that barely seems reverent. The worst is, last Sunday, I guess because it’s a “family” mass, nobody went to kneel at the Eucharistic prayer and I fell to my knees anyway out of shock and kind of checked out spiritually, just asking Jesus how that could happen. I wanted to ask the priest but I spent too much time praying for help from St. Therese and the Divine Mercy, so I couldn’t catch him.

The thing is, I know of a church that prays the Mass with reverence due, and it’s a small drive. I even go there for daily Mass most of the time. In fact if that weren’t enough there’s an oratory for the Extraordinary Form almost literally next door. But somehow I still feel obligated to attend Sunday Mass at the standard parish. Would it sound crazy to you if I said maybe I’m supposed to learn to appreciate the Mass for itself, not how it’s celebrated? I feel torn between that and wanting to go to a place that gives Jesus His proper respect, at least in my eyes.

And I know there’s a Liturgy forum here, but I’d rather not post this there because I’m asking about my response, not the liturgy itself. I guess I’m just questioning if there’s any point in suffering through a Mass I don’t like when I don’t have to.

–Justin

 

[scoobydoo6v92]

Hey, it’s me again. You guys have been helpful with my struggles in the past, but now I have a new one.

I’ve started trying to go to the parish I live in for Sunday Mass, since I feel like I should be supporting their mission of saving all the souls in their geographic area. Problem is, I absolutely dread it. The church has been “renovated” so you sit around the new altar, 1/2 of us are facing away from the old tabernacle and even the crucifix. The music is all that modern stuff that barely seems reverent. The worst is, last Sunday, I guess because it’s a “family” mass, nobody went to kneel at the Eucharistic prayer and I fell to my knees anyway out of shock and kind of checked out spiritually, just asking Jesus how that could happen. I wanted to ask the priest but I spent too much time praying for help from St. Therese and the Divine Mercy, so I couldn’t catch him.

The thing is, I know of a church that prays the Mass with reverence due, and it’s a small drive. I even go there for daily Mass most of the time. In fact if that weren’t enough there’s an oratory for the Extraordinary Form almost literally next door. But somehow I still feel obligated to attend Sunday Mass at the standard parish. Would it sound crazy to you if I said maybe I’m supposed to learn to appreciate the Mass for itself, not how it’s celebrated? I feel torn between that and wanting to go to a place that gives Jesus His proper respect, at least in my eyes.

And I know there’s a Liturgy forum here, but I’d rather not post this there because I’m asking about my response, not the liturgy itself. I guess I’m just questioning if there’s any point in suffering through a Mass I don’t like when I don’t have to.

–Justin

Dear Justin

Hello I have been travling around this country off and on for the last 10 years. I have seen thnigs that will make a Catholic cry. I see nothing wrong walking out of a parish if you ee something that is distasteful. Find a church that says the Mass as it should be said. Also tlak to your priest. Write him a letter email him. Have a meeting with him. It may not do any good but it may do YOU!! some good to get your feelings out. God Bless Scoob

 

[theistgal]

Hey, it’s me again. You guys have been helpful with my struggles in the past, but now I have a new one.

I’ve started trying to go to the parish I live in for Sunday Mass, since I feel like I should be supporting their mission of saving all the souls in their geographic area. Problem is, I absolutely dread it. The church has been “renovated” so you sit around the new altar, 1/2 of us are facing away from the old tabernacle and even the crucifix. The music is all that modern stuff that barely seems reverent. The worst is, last Sunday, I guess because it’s a “family” mass, nobody went to kneel at the Eucharistic prayer and I fell to my knees anyway out of shock and kind of checked out spiritually, just asking Jesus how that could happen. I wanted to ask the priest but I spent too much time praying for help from St. Therese and the Divine Mercy, so I couldn’t catch him.

The thing is, I know of a church that prays the Mass with reverence due, and it’s a small drive. I even go there for daily Mass most of the time. In fact if that weren’t enough there’s an oratory for the Extraordinary Form almost literally next door. But somehow I still feel obligated to attend Sunday Mass at the standard parish. Would it sound crazy to you if I said maybe I’m supposed to learn to appreciate the Mass for itself, not how it’s celebrated? I feel torn between that and wanting to go to a place that gives Jesus His proper respect, at least in my eyes.

And I know there’s a Liturgy forum here, but I’d rather not post this there because I’m asking about my response, not the liturgy itself. I guess I’m just questioning if there’s any point in suffering through a Mass I don’t like when I don’t have to.

–Justin

Believe me, there are a lot of people out here who know how you feel!

It should make you feel better to know that, according to Church law, you are not obligated to belong to your geographical parish, and you are permitted to join a parish farther away. I would suggest you go to the church you love as much as possible - and join their parish if it seems feasible to you.

 

[maryjk]

The worst is, last Sunday, I guess because it’s a “family” mass, nobody went to kneel at the Eucharistic prayer and I fell to my knees anyway out of shock and kind of checked out spiritually, just asking Jesus how that could happen. I wanted to ask the priest but I spent too much time praying for help from St. Therese and the Divine Mercy, so I couldn’t catch him.
–Justin

I don’t know what it being a “family” mass has to do with kneeling. I attend, what most would call our “family” mass, and everyone kneels. Well, most everyone. We are so crowded, that there isn’t room to kneel for some.
Next time, pray after you speak to the priest. That way, you won’t miss him.

 

[Michael_David]

There are various forms of Mass said in different parishes. I believe, since Vatican II all are sanctioned, although I have not asked the Archbishop about that.

In my parish, we have 3 Masses… all a bit different. One with guitar and other music; one very pre-Vatican II where we kneel to take Communion, and the music is from the pipe organ in the back loft (not up front); the other is a mix of the two. Being raised in the so-called traditional Church, I go to the pre-Vatican II one… it reminds me of the ‘unchanging Lord’. Although, if one is younger, and went when the guitar Mass was in, perhaps that is the one that will remind them.

I have been to modern constructed Churches, and those you site where the Altar is in the middle and all the pews are around it. In a new-style Church it is more fitting, as in the old-style Church the lay-of-land is out of sorts for how it was designed. I have also seen where the old Church has the Altar set up above (some 3 steps) the floor; and I have seen it where it is at the lowest point with all the pews in a half-circle like a stadium. One not too far away, has an old Church with a new style built alongside, with Masses in both, again with the different locations said at different times. I do note that only one is said in the old Church, while 3 are said in the new stadium style Church… based on the parishioners that want each.

Not to kneel at the Eucharistic Prayer, the Canon, when the Tabernacle is open I have not witnessed at any of these. Could be the ‘conservative’ state I am in up here in the North Country, compared to where you are.

I would try and talk with the Priest first about it. Then perhaps a letter to the Archbishop (diocese) asking him about it. In my journeys, I have not seen this.

 

[dove51]

We drive half an hour there and back to go to Sunday Mass in a different city. I know people who drive much farther to get to a church that offers the TLM. I think this is pretty common among people seeking a more reverent form of worship, and I wouldn’t for a minute feel bad about looking for it.

 

[justinkolo]

Tabernacle? I think the one they actually use is in a back room somewhere The real one that’s been there since the church was built so long ago is there, behind everyone, and has the candle burning next to it, but as far as I can tell when the EMHCs went to return the excess consecrated hosts they went down the hall somewhere.

I guess there’s a voice inside that says: “if you go there and suffer it’ll be for the good, to make sure you’re going there to receive Jesus alone instead of, say, enjoying the music” and one that says “you should not support that kind of Mass when there’s ones done with due reverence in the area”, and I don’t know which is which yet. But certainly, I need to at least write my parish priest a note asking for his reasoning on that Eucharistic prayer for sure! Sounds like the consensus is to go to the reverent Mass though and not to worry about it. thanks again, you guys are great!

 

[jmcrae]

Perhaps you are being called to “infect” that parish with a bit of reverence.

There is a certain Mass that I attend regularly. At first, it seemed as if I was the only one present who knelt at the Consecration. Lately I have noticed that more and more of the people behind and beside me are kneeling, too.

There are a lot of Catholics who are afraid to “stand out” at Mass by kneeling - they aren’t standing during the Consecration because they are irreverent or because they don’t know what’s going on, but rather, because they are afraid of calling attention to themselves. But, if they see other people kneeling, they gain courage, and they kneel, too.

 

[A_Sinner_1]

The thing is, I know of a church that prays the Mass with reverence due, and it’s a small drive. I even go there for daily Mass most of the time. In fact if that weren’t enough there’s an oratory for the Extraordinary Form almost literally next door. But somehow I still feel obligated to attend Sunday Mass at the standard parish. Would it sound crazy to you if I said maybe I’m supposed to learn to appreciate the Mass for itself, not how it’s celebrated? I feel torn between that and wanting to go to a place that gives Jesus His proper respect, at least in my eyes.

By suffering in your geographical parish, you are supporting its irreverence. I doubt there’s any point in trying to talk to the pastor about it. Join the reverent, orthodox parish; get involved with parish life there. Help make it successful and maybe even bring along people from your geographical parish who prefer to worship the Lord reverently.

 

[DJgang]

I heard where once a man went up for the Eucharist on his knees … now talk about getting the point across.

 

[LeroyCRHP]

This sounds like more of the “its about Me people”. Look at me, watch me, I’m more holy than any of you. It is not, I’m sure the mass is completely proper, if not different than you expect.

I’ve started trying to go to the parish I live in for Sunday Mass, since I feel like I should be supporting their mission of saving all the souls in their geographic area.

Justin; If you want to save souls at this parish what would that take? Talk to the Priest about what he needs and the parish needs. When you get to know the Priest you will likely find what he thinks is needed to save souls at this parish. How long have you been going to this parish and how big is it?

I heard where once a man went up for the Eucharist on his knees … now talk about getting the point across.

 

[ack]

And which part of “Church law” are you referring to?

From what I understand, Canon Law does not recognize the concept of “joining” or “belonging to” a parish, as all Catholics are members of the parish where they reside, by definition.

Believe me, there are a lot of people out here who know how you feel!

It should make you feel better to know that, according to Church law, you are not obligated to belong to your geographical parish, and you are permitted to join a parish farther away. I would suggest you go to the church you love as much as possible - and join their parish if it seems feasible to you.

 

[theistgal]

And which part of “Church law” are you referring to?

From what I understand, Canon Law does not recognize the concept of “joining” or “belonging to” a parish, as all Catholics are members of the parish where they reside, by definition.

Really? I’ve officially been a member of my Byzantine Catholic parish for almost five years now. And I live miles and miles from it. Since I’m technically still a Latin Rite Catholic, does that mean I’m really a member of a Roman Catholic parish which I have never, ever attended?

I don’t have the Code of Canon Law in front of me, but I’m about 90% sure that the laws concerning geographical parish membership were relaxed. Perhaps some expert can enlighten us.

(Oh and by the way - just noticed there’s another, even longer thread about this exact same topic! forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=297401)

 

[Michael_Neal]

Personally I would go to another parish, unless of course you want to deliberately suffer as an offering to God.

 

[justinkolo]

OK, I read through that long thread and this is what I kind of got out of it:

I can go to Mass anywhere I want. But if I get married (not quite to that point… yet ), get sick, or die, it’s up to the pastor of the parish where I live to handle those sacraments, unless other arrangements are made, and there’s no guarantee they can be made. So, it would be a good idea to kind of try to get to know that pastor, just in case. Do I have that correct?

I guess there might be a solution. I go to daily Mass too but have yet to go to my local parish for that. So, I could go the days they have it in the morning, since it should be more tolerable than Sunday Mass, and the one I like the rest of the time. I’ll keep you posted…

 

[ack]

First, some relevant quotes from Canon Law (all emphasis mine):

Can. 518 As a general rule a parish is to be territorial, that is, one which includes all the Christian faithful of a certain territory. When it is expedient, however, personal parishes are to be established determined by reason of the rite, language, or nationality of the Christian faithful of some territory, or even for some other reason.

Can. 102 §1. Domicile is acquired by that residence within the territory of a certain parish or at least of a diocese, which either is joined with the intention of remaining there permanently unless called away or has been protracted for five complete years.
§2. **Quasi-domicile is acquired by residence within the territory of a certain parish **or at least of a diocese, which either is joined with the intention of remaining there for at least three months unless called away or has in fact been protracted for three months.

Can. 107 §1. Through both domicile and quasi-domicile, each person acquires his or her pastor and ordinary.

Assuming that your Byzantine parish is established as a personal parish, it is possible to become a “real member” of the parish if you meet the requirements of the personal parish (which may involve your rite.) However, this is a special case because most people are attending territorial parishes.

The problem isn’t that Canon Law bans “joining” a parish where you don’t reside – the problem is that Canon Law doesn’t envision such a scenario and has no provisions for it. There is no “law” regarding geographical parish membership to relax because the concept is inherit to the definition of a parish. The concept of joining a parish by “registering” is mostly American and probably does not exist in most of the world.

Because Canon Law is completely silent on this point, I see nothing prohibiting anyone from attending Mass wherever they want. However, things get complicated when it comes to situations such as marriages, baptisms, and funerals, because your pastor under Canon Law is still defined by where you live. For example,

Marriages are to be celebrated in a parish where either of the contracting parties has a domicile, quasidomicile, or month long residence or, if it concerns transients, in the parish where they actually reside. With the permission of the proper ordinary or proper pastor, marriages can be celebrated elsewhere.

In practice, this is not normally a problem, because bishops and pastors routinely give permission for marriages to be celebrated outside of the territorial parish. However, Canon Law is full of this kind of snag, because there is no provision for American-style parish registration, which, in the eyes of the law, has no bearing on your proper pastor and parish.

Really? I’ve officially been a member of my Byzantine Catholic parish for almost five years now. And I live miles and miles from it. Since I’m technically still a Latin Rite Catholic, does that mean I’m really a member of a Roman Catholic parish which I have never, ever attended?

I don’t have the Code of Canon Law in front of me, but I’m about 90% sure that the laws concerning geographical parish membership were relaxed. Perhaps some expert can enlighten us.

(Oh and by the way - just noticed there’s another, even longer thread about this exact same topic! forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=297401)

 

[theistgal]

First, some relevant quotes from Canon Law (all emphasis mine):

Assuming that your Byzantine parish is established as a personal parish, it is possible to become a “real member” of the parish if you meet the requirements of the personal parish (which may involve your rite.) However, this is a special case because most people are attending territorial parishes.

The problem isn’t that Canon Law bans “joining” a parish where you don’t reside – the problem is that Canon Law doesn’t envision such a scenario and has no provisions for it. There is no “law” regarding geographical parish membership to relax because the concept is inherit to the definition of a parish. The concept of joining a parish by “registering” is mostly American and probably does not exist in most of the world.

Because Canon Law is completely silent on this point, I see nothing prohibiting anyone from attending Mass wherever they want. However, things get complicated when it comes to situations such as marriages, baptisms, and funerals, because your pastor under Canon Law is still defined by where you live. For example,

In practice, this is not normally a problem, because bishops and pastors routinely give permission for marriages to be celebrated outside of the territorial parish. However, Canon Law is full of this kind of snag, because there is no provision for American-style parish registration, which, in the eyes of the law, has no bearing on your proper pastor and parish.

Well, I won’t worry about it till the Canon Lawyers themselves come after me.

 

[Monica4316]

Justin, in my opinion it’s better to go to the more reverent parish cause this one might just distract you from worship (understandably so). I really love reverence myself too. It’s sad that they don’t kneel in your parish I think it’s a law that people must kneel during the Consecration if they can.
(btw, that’s so cool that you live near an oratory with the traditional Mass )

God bless.

 

[justinkolo]

I will on Sundays for sure. I went to the home parish today and that was ok, but I asked my pastor and all he said was “At that Mass, that assembly has adopted that pose”. I let him know that I didn’t know an assembly could adopt a pose, mentioned I was disturbed and left. To be fair people at the other Masses do kneel, but there’s a lot of other annoyances there.

 

[theistgal]

I will on Sundays for sure. I went to the home parish today and that was ok, but I asked my pastor and all he said was “At that Mass, that assembly has adopted that pose”. I let him know that I didn’t know an assembly could adopt a pose, mentioned I was disturbed and left. To be fair people at the other Masses do kneel, but there’s a lot of other annoyances there.

Hmm … those people who kneel at the other masses probably feel the same frustration you feel. Perhaps before you abandon this parish altogether, you could try approaching one of them (after Mass, of course) and ask them about it.

But of course that’s not necessary if you feel uncomfortable doing so. Just a thought.