Dreaming and moral responsibility

[holly_potter]

I had a curious question I haven’t been able to come to a satisfactory conclusion about…
And I make the distinction between lucid and non-lucid dreaming. Lucid dreaming means you can actively change your dream to do whatever you want to do, and the other kind other people have is where it’s like you’re only passively watching a movie you also act in, but have no thought or control over your actions.
And no, we’ll leave off the why people have these dreams in the first place.
Okay, if someone dreams he’s eating marshmallows, but didn’t choose to, is that her fault?
If someone dreams she’s naked and enjoying (or not enjoying it), is that her fault, if it’s a non-lucid dream?
Now, the million dollar question:
If someone dreams unwittingly he’s having sex (or some other sin), is that a sin, seeing as he has no control over his dreams?

My thinking is that if it’s lucid, then it would be a sin. But I can’t quite decide about non-lucid dreams, particularly if the person wakes up in the middle of the dream, sleep-doing whatever that was doing in the dream (but once the brain realizes it, the person stops immediately).

Any thoughts on this would be very helpful, particularly by somebody who knows the CCC or moral theology very well, thanks!

 

[JamesG]

Well you have to consider if your this is what is truely in your heart

Sometimes when we dream we forget about our morality and about God. We also know that there are no consequences for our actions and therefore do as we please in a lucid dream

If you experience these kinds of dreams it means that you need to work on being closer to God. It means that you are not as close to God as you should be. He is not truely in your heart yet.

 

[Liberanosamalo]

For an action to be a sin, you have to have free consent of the will. If you are unconscious or half asleep, your culpability is reduced. And if you are asleep and your hormones are interfering, you are dealing with another factor that reduces culpability. (Women have a fluctuation in this area that can be startling.)

But dreams are a valid reflection of our waking moments, thoughts, fears, preoccupations, etc. If you are consistently having “vivid” dreams, you might want to ask yourself what is going on in your life that your subconscious is preoccupied with it as well.

It’s what you do once you wake up that determines the morality of the act. Do you get up and read a book, take a shower? Or do you consent to the dream?

As for daydreaming done while conscious… if you are consenting to mental impurity, maybe that time can be used better in other ways. Like picturing yourself in a conversation with Christ.

That’s always a good daydream.

 

[blessedtoo]

If someone dreams unwittingly he’s having sex (or some other sin), is that a sin, seeing as he has no control over his dreams?

There is no sin.

But I can’t quite decide about non-lucid dreams, particularly if the person wakes up in the middle of the dream, sleep-doing whatever that was doing in the dream (but once the brain realizes it, the person stops immediately).

There is no sin.

 

[Smber2c]

I’d just don’t think that it’s possible to actually cause yourself a real world sin in a dream. I have had a couple of 'sex dreams; over the years that during the dream seemed very pleasurable. I was seemingly choosing what I wanted and wanting to do what in my full awareness I know to be wrong.

Upon waking, I imediately realized what my mind had been focusing on for the last couple of minutes and immediately rejected all of it.

Did I feel dirty and sinful? No, maybe slightly embarassed as the last memories of whatever the dream was slipped away. My largest thought was that I was thankful that once ‘experiencing’ these deviant thoughts, I was able to immediately reject it once my moral sense was engaged.

Perhaps I was even a bit proud in the grace God gave me in that moment.

 

[blessedtoo]

Perhaps I was even a bit proud in the grace God gave me in that moment.

I’ve thought the very same thing myself!

 

[Matt_Collins]

All sins, by definition, are a free choice, so it is not possible to sin, even venially, without an act of the will. Period.

And by definition, all dreams we have when asleep are “non-lucid”. We cannot control them and are not responsible for them. No matter how perverted the dream, we do not sin by having it. And we do not sin by enjoying (in our dream) what we do in our dream.

Again, all sin involves a free choice to commit evil. The ability to make a free choice while asleep is just not there.

I’m aware of the alleged phenomenon of so-called “lucid dreams”, in which the person can supposedly control the flow of the dream even though they’re asleep. There is really very little convincing scientific evidence that such dreams actually occur. It may seem to the dreamer that they are controlling the dream, but that itself may be part of the dream. It is highly doubtful. And because it is highly doubtful, there is no need to confess any supposed sins committed in such dreams. If it makes you feel better, say an act of contrition and forget about it.

However, daydreams are another story. They do involve free choice, so we are responsible for them once we are aware that we are daydreaming.